American democracy health thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Did I say any of that?

    Why are you being such a ********ing douche?

    The things I mention are very commonly overlooked when considering EVs. People are very good at not considering said things.

    I don't quite know why you chose to respond that way. I am not against EVs in any meaningful way.
     
  2. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a very common argument against EVs to compare them to ICEs using an apples-to-oranges comparison - the most common one is to include manufacturing and disposal costs for EVs while ignoring them for ICEs. This comes up frequently in car forums, which I view occasionally, because my wife worked for Tesla. (That last phrase is relevant because it defines my bias - i.e. strongly in favor of EVs.)

    So when you bring up mining and disposal costs for EVs, I assumed you were making that same argument. I was triggered, if you will. I apologize for making the assumption that you were intentionally making the same argument as dumbasses somewhere else.
     
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  3. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes. Of course Brummie being proven wrong would be cool, but not at the expense of our democracy.
     
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  4. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    I mean, in either case we're outsourcing almost all of the resource extraction, and a whole bunch of the disposal/recycling onto people a whole lot poorer than us. But having been around when EVs were presented as a panacea, I still see a lot of that belief in unicorn dust as it pertains to this particular technology.

    There's a lot to consider.
     
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  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The candidate of a Governor race refusing to concede and claiming irregularities, I guess that it does not only happen in Georgia.


    The difference may be that the loser gets its way in this one.
     
  6. InTheSun

    InTheSun Member+

    Oct 20, 2005
    The Andes Mountains
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Yes, for your scenario we're not quite there yet. The range keeps improving with every generation but in your case the weight and mileage required would be closer to that of a commercial vehicle like a delivery van. The race is on though to produce such vehicles. Recently Ford published a video demo of their electric F 150 for example, towing a train full of other F150s. Pretty impressive even if it's just a one off prototype vehicle.
     
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  7. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Combustion engine car footprint is well understood, if usually ignored.

    Battery cars a bit less, but it is getting there.

    Some sources

    https://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-global-warming-emissions-953

    Wired magazine is pretty good with tech, but their rare elements talk also does apply to cell phones and laptops, ect.

    https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/

    Forbes is no hippy environmental magazine



    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamese...ally-better-for-the-environment/#49abe78176d2
     
  8. InTheSun

    InTheSun Member+

    Oct 20, 2005
    The Andes Mountains
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Speaking from an anecdotal pov, I know that anytime an I3 is wrecked and posted on my fb I3 owners group, folks want to recover the very expensive battery to recondition, reuse or whatever. I don't know how many cycles of reuse the materials can be counted on to provide but there is definitely a market for other applications of the battery from an ev. Also, BMW in Europe allows a trade in with a chunk of credit if you want to upgrade your battery for one with more capacity. I'm sure they recondition the cells from the old battery for reuse.
     
  9. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I forgot my favorite reason:

    The money I don't send to the Saudis and Russians.

    The amount of wars, money, and soldiers we've sent over to support dictators and their repressive regimes, and the terrorist attacks because of this support. I've spent a lot less $$ to Russia and Saudi Arabia than I used to.

    Friedman in his latest book connected petro dollar prices to totalitarian regimes.

    I'll try not to make the connection between Trump and Fracking, but I just did.
     
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  10. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
  11. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The whole Maddow latest book "Blowout" is dedicated to that premise.
     
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  12. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Google where Cobalt comes from (largest producers).
     
  13. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a stupid both-sides-ist argument. The amount of cobalt that is required for modern technology (not just EVs) is X, and maybe some of it comes from bad places. The amount of oil that is required for 20th century transportation technology is about 1,000,000 times X, and a lot of that comes from bad places. So as long as there is still a much smaller amount of money going to bad places, "both sides" are bad. OK, Captain Both Sides.
     
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  14. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey I thank al the Congolese slave labor children and Congolese raped women for the extended battery on my phone and my Chevy Volt.

    Sure, it is a lot less quantity that oil or even diamonds, but we can not ignore it in our goal to fell superior because we want to say we are environmental friendlier.

    You just have to keep it in the back of your head.


    Battery companies are trying out new technology to reduce the amount of cobalt on lithium batteries, so that is a good thing.

    Now the minerals that make our screens touch screens, those are still very dirty to extract as far as I know.
     
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  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW here are some articles on the challenge that we will face in the future to recycle all those batteries.


    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...l-be-tomorrows-e-waste-crisis-scientists-warn


    https://www.theguardian.com/sustain...s-big-battery-waste-problem-lithium-recycling


    The good news, is if we can figure it our with car batteries, maybe the economy of scale will be there to also take care of cellphone batteries and other electronic batteries that currently end up in land fills.
     
  16. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    1192916548811280384 is not a valid tweet id
     
  17. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    His killing the LGBT equality act will give him a pass from his base on every other thing. It's not a graveyard for him, it's a trip to paradise.
     
  18. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    How many virgins does he get?
     
  19. raza_rebel

    raza_rebel Member+

    Dec 11, 2000
    Club:
    Univ de Chile

    Having worked with sea turtles, they are technically called neophytes
     
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  20. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
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  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  22. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Oh, NOWWWW I see...



    Voters in Houston, Texas, elected 19 black women to local judgeships last year. The new judges, all Democrats, have instituted wide-ranging reforms to the county's bail system. Voters also sent Democratic judges to the state appeals court​

     
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  23. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    I’ll be honest I only skimmed the article. But the opening line is pretty powerful...”Democracy depends on the consent of the losers.” Republicans don’t plan on giving consent.
     
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  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hard to miss in the article.

    upload_2019-11-12_13-13-7.png

    That picture scares the shit out of many GOP politicians.

    It makes them want to vote for Trump even more, all that economic anxiety in one place.
     
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  25. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Saw it on Twitter. Not bad but one of the premises is that the reactionaries are triggered by the "Excesses of the left". Yeah, how do we dare to ask for Universal Healthcare, free education and proper taxing!!!
     

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