American democracy health thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Dood - even my area of north germany has low water table and our stream is dry 2 years after the mega - heatwave

    NORTHERN GERMANY!

    The forest fire risk is crazy and they are already discussing how on earth to maintain the forested areas in germany because it is way too dry

    We are sooooo screwed
     
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  2. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Rakes for everyone!
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    What is quite funny is they want to reverse clearance policies to try to retain moisture on the forest floor :p
     
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  4. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Actually that’s an example of how it actually can work, by educating consumers. In spite of the cigarette companies’ efforts to deceive, when consumers learned of the health hazards associated with smoking, the number of smokers went down significantly.
     
  5. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    There was a bit of sarcasm in that comment. A typical California environmental “solution” is to charge 10 cents for a plastic bag at a grocery store. Never mind that most of the products we buy are wrapped in plastic anyway.

    My understanding is that the electric cars are indeed less dirty than those that use gas, but an even better option would be to plan to live closer to where we work and play, and take public transportation. Not much of that is happening in California either.
     
  6. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    I don't think that's true. There was at least a decade or two when we all knew cigarettes caused cancer and most everybody still smoked. It was when the government started taxing the shit out of smoking that people stopped.

    I don't have any data except that I quit when my $2.50 Camel Lights topped $12.50.
     
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  7. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Even a libertarian can appreciate the effect of sin taxes.
     
  8. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    My sister is always singing the praises of her Tesla, but she has now moved into a walkable community. I think that makes more sense for our environment. Then again I look at her lifestyle and know while she thinks she is green she consumes 5 times the resources of the average American.
     
  9. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think the cost is also a factor, but I believe more people quit over health awareness than over money.
     
  10. InTheSun

    InTheSun Member+

    Oct 20, 2005
    The Andes Mountains
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    They are cleaner but depending on the source of the energy some are cleaner than others. Cali is further along than many other states in renewable energy. But even with the worst case scenario of a coal plant providing 100% of the energy, it's still estimated 30% cleaner than at the tailpipe. The batteries are also getting more efficient and by no means is Li-On the final source for energy storage we're ever going to have. There will be and already is a lot of innovation in battery chemistry and materials to provide the on-board energy storage, so electric cars can get even cleaner with advancements in these areas.

    But we need to think of electric cars only as part of the solution. As you mention, mass transit and other cleaner transportation should be in the mix. Personally, we have an electric car and decided we can share it and forego the one car per person formula. Saves us money all around.

    Also in addition to what you mention, telecommuting for those jobs where it makes sense should be some help, but in recent times the corporate dummies are going away from it as the "co-location" bandwagon seems to be a trend every stupid talent-less CEO wants to jump on as a panacea for whatever ails their organization.
     
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  11. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A large part of that education was due to the EEBIL GUB-MINT sticking their noses into people's bidness like some sort of Nanny State that knows what's best for everyone, or at least knowing better than the invisible hand of the marketplace.

    At some point the collective good (a healthier society overall) should outweigh the rights of the individual to poison himself if he damn well pleases.
     
  12. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True, we should all be forced to become vegetarians by the government. It may not be politically popular, but it would be the right thing to do.
     
  13. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Nah, but we could quit subsidizing the meat and dairy industries.
     
  14. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Given that the high carbohydrate, low fat food pyramid has accompanied a serious rise in morbid obesity, I'm not sure the government is what I'm going to listen to. At least, not until processed food conglomerates are completely cut out of the process of establishing dietary guidelines.
     
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  15. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe in letting capitalism and the market support the transition to renewable energy. But we have 100 years of subsidies to oil and gas to make up for.

    Either stop giving Exxon tax breaks and drilling permits, or increase subsidies to renewables, or better yet, both. The planet spends about 500 billion dollars a year (per the IMF) on Fossil Fuel subsidies, aimed to reduce the cost of oil for people.

    From 1950 -2016, Fossil Fuel subsidies accounted for 65% of all energy subsidies, with renewables at 16%, Nuclear at 8%, and Hydro/Geothermal at 10% and 1%, respectively.

    In other words, of the 1 trillion dollars in subsidies the US government handed out for energy ofr 75 years, 414B went to oil, 140B went to natural gas, and 112B went to coal. 158B went to renewables.

    But I can't get back $5000 for my solar panels because the Republicans want to end these subsidies?

    https://www.nei.org/CorporateSite/m...nalysis-of-us-energy-incentives-1950-2016.pdf
     
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  16. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1466 MattR, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
    Full disclosure. I have an all-electric chevy bolt. There are various comparisons that show that all else being equal, the environmental cost to build the EV compares with the cost of a normal car-sized car (SUVs obviously are slightly higher). The environmental cost to build the batteries is offset by not burning gas within a year or two of purchase, depending on the size of the batteries.

    I prefer electric vehicles for other reasons

    - Pollution, while still created when electricity is created by fossil fuels, is located away from population centers and would facilitate carbon capture
    - Efficiency - most of the internal combustion engine's energy is wasted in the form of heat, where this heat is used to create electricity when used at a highly efficient generation plant
    - Ease of replacement - as renewable resources come online, the pollution/carbon generated by new sources will make my car responsible for even less pollution
    - Off-the-line torque. I love surprising sports car owners in my little chevy.
     
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  17. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Disposal and the effects of the mining are, naturally, left out.
     
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yet, when governments try to reduce subsidies (to keep the price of gasoline low) the people revolt.

    In Ecuador they basically chased the president away from the capital until he agreed to reverse his fuel subsidies.

    As we know, when you give people an entitlement, it is very hard to take it back.
     
  19. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    That has a lot to do with the latest call of ISIS to their faithful living abroad. Go thee out and start forest fires.
    ISIS encouraging followers to light forest fires in US
    2 days ago · The Islamic State is telling its followers to ignite destructive forest fires in the United States and Europe. As California continues to grapple with powerful fires that have forced hundreds of thousands to evacuate, a pro-ISIS media outlet called Quraysh has reportedly released ...
     
  20. InTheSun

    InTheSun Member+

    Oct 20, 2005
    The Andes Mountains
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Pretty much where I'm coming from as well. I will add a couple of points (some are trivial but sooo nice :):

    - Very little maintenance other than tires.
    - Not having to visit gas stations for months at a time (I have an electric with Range extender but we need it very infrequently). It's a great time saver when you leave the house with a full "tank" of fuel every morning.
    - Pre-conditioning. This just means getting the cabin climate ready remotely well before you get in the car, whether it's heat or cooling.

    This pisses off a whole lot of them.
     
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  21. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I would consider and EV if they could solve the range/size issue. I drive 30,000+ miles a year and the day-to-day is above most EV ranges. I also have two wheelchairs to transport.
     
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  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I'm not a big government advocate, but I do believe that educating the people is of the roles of the government, and one of the most important ones at that.

    In the case of cigarettes - as well as alcohol, marihuana and other drugs, I think a combination of education, regulations and incentives (like sin taxes) is the best approach, rather than prohibition. Perhaps that same model can be applied to environmental issues.

    Education starts at school, but we also could get creative. For example, if we were to follow the cigarette model when it comes to cars:

    A "sin tax" on gas guzzlers? Well, in California gasoline taxes are already high, and it hasn't worked as a deterrent yet.

    How about cars coming with large red stickers that say "WARNING, GASOLINE POWERED VEHICLES CREATE POLUTION AND EMISSIONS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO GLOBAL WARMING AND MAY CAUSE THE EXTINCTION OF THE HUMAN RACE"?
     
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  23. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
  24. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    It very likely won't happen. If it does though, Brummie will have been proven wrong, and I will expect him to confess to that.

    But Lord I hope it does not come to that.
     
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  25. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, because gas cars materialize fully-formed at the dealerships and simply dissipate into nonexistence when their owner is done with them, and there are absolutely zero environmental consequences for the extraction, refining and transport of gasoline.
     
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