Alternative World Rankings Thread

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by vancity eagle, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Merry Christmas and almost a Happy new years folks !!!

    What a year of football and I am signing off the year with my final World rankings of the year. This is an alternative to the FIFA rankings which is grossly innacurate in my opinion. This rankings includes all matches from the final November FIFA window.

    It is based upon an alternative formula I created which better reflects the true strength of international teams.

    I will redo the rankings after the 2019 AFC Asian Cup is concluded.

    I've added the rankings difference compared to FIFA on the side. + is the amount my rankings are above FIFA and - is the amount my rankings are below FIFA.

    1. France +1
    2. Belgium -1
    3. Brazil
    4. England +1
    5. Spain +4
    6. Croatia -2
    7. Denmark +3
    8. Colombia +4
    9. Germany +7
    10. Switzerland -2
    11. Portugal -5
    12. Holland +3
    13. Uruguay -6
    14. Sweden
    15. Argentina -4
    16. Russia +32
    17. Peru +4
    18. Italy
    19. Nigeria +25
    20. Morocco +20
    21. Senegal +2
    22. Chile -9
    23. Iran +7
    24. Mexico -7
    25. Japan +25
    26. Serbia +3
    27. Wales -8
    28. S. Korea +25
    29. Venezuela +2
    30. Cameroon +25
    31. USA -6
    32. Bosnia & H +2
    33. Austria -11
    34. Ireland R. -1
    35. Poland -15
    36. Iceland +1
    37. Romania -13
    38. Australia +3
    39. Tunisia -13
    40. Ghana +12
    41. Slovakia -14
    42. Burkina Faso +19
    43. Ukraine -15
    44. Ecuador +13
    45. Turkey -6
    46. Paraguay -14
    47. S. Africa +25
    48. Czech. R. -6
    49. Egypt +7
    50. Costa Rica -14
    51. Greece -8
    52. R. Congo -3
    53. N. Ireland -18
    54. Ivory Coast +11
    55. Algeria +12
    56. Montenegro -11
    57. Scotland -19
    58. Norway -11
    59. Uganda +16
    60. Bolivia -1
    61. Guinea +5
    62. Finland -4
    63. Zambia +20
    64. Georgia +25
    65. S. Arabia +4
    66. Mali -2
    67. Honduras -4
    68. Cape Verde +5
    69. Zimbabwe +45
    70. Bulgaria -24
    71. Hungary -20
    72. Syria +2
    73. Qatar +20
    74. Slovenia -12
    75. Canada +3
    76. Albania -16
    77. Israel +13
    78. Macedonia -10
    79. Mauritania +22
    80. Angola +45
    81. Kosovo +50
    82. Kenya +23
    83. Togo +40
    84. Panama -13
    85. UAE -6
    86. Iraq +2
    87. Comoros +56
    88. Mozambique +29
    89. Congo -5
    90. Rwanda +47
    91. Gabon -6
    92. Uzbekistan +3
    93. E. Guinea +55
    94. Belarus -18
    95. Sierra Leone +20
    96. Tanzania +42
    97. Trinidad & T -5
    98. Libya +6
    99. Malawi +31
    100. Armenia +2
     
  2. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    #2 vancity eagle, Feb 6, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
    My updated Rankings after the Asian Cup

    their average points per match on the side

    1. France - 89
    2. Belgium – 86
    3. Brazil – 82
    4. England – 77
    5. Spain - 76
    6. Croatia – 75
    7. Denmark - 69
    8. Colombia – 66
    9. Germany – 65
    10. Switzerland - 64
    11. Portugal - 63
    12. Holland – 61
    13. Uruguay - 60
    14. Sweden - 60
    15. Argentina – 59
    16. Russia - 56
    17. Peru - 54
    18. Italy – 54
    19. Nigeria - 53
    20. Morocco – 53
    21. Senegal - 52
    22. Chile – 52
    23. Japan - 52
    24. Mexico - 49
    25. Serbia – 49
    26. Wales – 49
    27. Qatar – 48
    28. Iran - 47
    29. S. Korea – 47

    30. Venezuela - 47
    31. Cameroon – 45
    32. USA - 45
    33. Bosnia & H - 45
    34. Austria – 45
    35. Ireland R. - 45
    36. Poland - 44
    37. Iceland – 44
    38. Romania - 44
    39. Tunisia - 43
    40. Ghana – 43
    41. Slovakia - 43
    42. Burkina Faso – 43
    43. Ukraine - 42
    44. Ecuador – 42
    45. Turkey - 41
    46. Paraguay – 41
    47. S. Africa - 41
    48. Czech. Rep. - 40
    49. Australia - 39
    50. Egypt - 39
    51. Costa Rica – 39
    52. Greece – 39
    53. R. Congo - 39
    54. N. Ireland - 37
    55. Ivory Coast - 36
    56. Algeria – 36
    57. Montenegro – 34
    58. Scotland - 34
    59. Norway – 34
    60. Uganda - 34
    61. Bolivia – 34
    62. Guinea - 33
    63. Finland – 33
    64. Zambia - 33
    65. Georgia – 33
    66. Mali - 32
    67. Honduras - 32
    68. Cape Verde – 32
    69. Zimbabwe - 32
    70. Bulgaria – 31
    71. Hungary – 31
    72. Saudi Arabia -30
    73. Slovenia - 30
    74. Canada - 30
    75. Albania – 30
    76. Israel – 30
    77. Macedonia – 30
    78. Mauritania - 29
    79. Angola – 29
    80. Syria - 28
    81. Kosovo – 28
    82. Kenya – 28
    83. Uzbekistan - 27
    84. Togo - 27
    85. Panama – 26
    86. Iraq - 26
    87. Comoros – 26
    88. Mozambique - 26
    89. Congo – 26
    90. Rwanda - 26
    91. Gabon – 25
    92. E. Guinea - 25
    93. Belarus – 25
    94. Sierra Leone – 25
    95. Tanzania – 25
    96. UAE - 24
    97. Trinidad - 24
    98. Libya – 24
    99. Malawi - 24
    100. Armenia – 24
     
  3. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    with 3 continental tournaments about to begin this summer and the just finished UEFA nations league finals, here are my updated top 100 rankings with points averages.

    This ranking is after the March international window and does not include any June matches so far. I will update after the 3 continental tournaments are finished in mid July.

    April 2019 World Rankings





    1. France - 89
    2. Belgium – 87
    3. Brazil – 79
    4. England – 78
    5. Spain - 76
    6. Croatia – 75
    7. Denmark - 69
    8. Colombia – 65
    9. Switzerland - 63
    10. Germany – 63
    11. Portugal – 62
    12. Uruguay - 61
    13. Holland – 60
    14. Sweden - 60
    15. Argentina – 59
    16. Russia - 56
    17. Nigeria - 54
    18. Morocco - 54
    19. Italy – 54
    20. Peru – 54
    21. Senegal - 52
    22. Japan – 52
    23. Mexico - 51
    24. Chile – 51
    25. Serbia – 51
    26. Venezuela – 49
    27. Wales - 49
    28. Qatar - 48
    29. Iran – 47
    30. South Korea – 47
    31. USA - 46
    32. Poland - 46
    33. Cameroon - 45
    34. Bosnia & H – 45
    35. Ireland Rep. - 45
    36. Ghana – 44
    37. Tunisia – 43
    38. Ukraine - 43
    39. Romania - 43
    40. Burkina Faso – 43
    41. Iceland - 42
    42. Austria – 42
    43. Slovakia – 42
    44. South Africa – 41
    45. Turkey - 41
    46. Ecuador – 40
    47. Greece - 40
    48. Egypt – 39
    49. Paraguay – 39
    50. R. Congo - 39
    51. Australia – 39
    52. Costa Rica – 38
    53. Czech. Rep. - 38
    54. Ivory Coast - 37
    55. Algeria – 37
    56. N. Ireland – 37
    57. Uganda - 34
    58. Bolivia – 34
    59. Norway - 34
    60. Guinea – 33
    61. Scotland - 33
    62. Montenegro – 33
    63. Zambia - 33
    64. Finland – 33
    65. Mali – 32
    66. Honduras – 32
    67. Zimbabwe - 32
    68. Hungary – 32
    69. Israel - 32
    70. Georgia - 32
    71. Bulgaria – 31
    72. Cape Verde - 31
    73. Canada – 30
    74. Saudi Arabia -30
    75. Slovenia - 30
    76. Macedonia - 30
    77. Angola – 29
    78. Kosovo - 29
    79. Albania – 29
    80. Panama - 28
    81. Kenya – 28
    82. Mauritania – 28
    83. Tanzania – 27
    84. Uzbekistan - 27
    85. Syria - 27
    86. Iraq – 26
    87. Mozambique – 26
    88. Togo - 26
    89. E. Guinea – 26
    90. Malawi - 26
    91. Kazakhstan - 25
    92. Comoros – 25
    93. Sierra Leone - 25
    94. Rwanda – 25
    95. Trinidad & T – 24
    96. UAE - 24
    97. Libya - 24
    98. Belarus - 24
    99. Armenia – 24
    100. Gabon - 24
    101. El Salvador –
     
  4. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've voiced my criticisms of your rankings in the past, but not having Belgium as #1 automatically makes your rankings the most accurate ones out ATM :D
     
  5. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Miramar, Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Do your rankings take into account margin of victory? Can a team drop points with a low-scoring win against weak opposition?

    E.g. Your #17, Nigeria, beat your #113 Burundi, only 1-0. If I ever had the time and patience to devise my own ranking system, I would probably have Nigeria drop some points with that result. Does that happen in your ranking?
     
  6. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006

    No teams cannot drop points from any victory. As long as you get the win, you cannot go down. I thought about this and decided not to penalize teams for a win, and I think I made the right choice.

    But Nigeria will not go up from beating Burundi or any other weak opponent.

    With FIFA rankings you go up no matter how weak the opponent you beat is. So my rankings are closer to your line of thinking than FIFA's is.

    Also with FIFA rankings Burundi will get no credit for only losing to Nigeria by 1-0.

    If the worst ranked team in the world loses 1-0 to Brazil they would go down in FIFA rankings, and that is very stupid, while in my rankings they would get a big boost.

    In my rankings Burundi will go up and Nigeria will stay the same.

    As long as you win you cannot go down, that is just a decision I made and I think it is for the best.

    However if Nigeria were to have drawn against Burundi we would have gone down quite a bit.

    Also yes my rankings does take into account win and loss margins, while again FIFA does not.

    In my rankings if Nigeria beat Burundi 4 or 5 goals we would likely go up in ranking but that depends on what result was replaced in the averages.

    FIFA rankings does not distinguish any difference between losing to a team, or winning against a team 1-0 or 10-0, again I think a very stupid idea.

    The whole point of my ranking is to determine how good you are against opposition of varying quality taking into account the following

    1) Win, Draw, or loss
    2) Margin of victory or loss
    3) Quality of opponent you play
    4) If you get an away result you are also awarded
    5) Whether it is a WC match, continental championship, or qualifier and friendly

    For example as I type this, Peru is going to lose some serious points for getting thrashed by Brazil. Brazil is also going to gain a lot of points from this match.


    FIFA rankings are more interested in if you get a victory or loss, regardless of how good an opponent is, and regardless of how much you win or lose by. FIFA rankings are very slow to react to reality because of how they set it up.

    Look at how well Qatar is doing at the Copa.

    Well my rankings would reflect that much more than FIFA's.

    FIFA is a slow innacurate dinosaur system.
     
  7. Every Four Years

    May 16, 2015
    Miramar, Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    #7 Every Four Years, Jun 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
    So... I’ve actually decided I might create my own rankings system.

    Okay, well, it’s not really completely my own rankings system, since I’m using the June 2019 FIFA rankings to determine the base/starting point values and ranking positions (i.e. Belgium starts at #1, France at #2). And my formula is actually inspired in part by FIFA’s old formula that they used before 2018...

    ... Which doesn’t sound great, but I have very heavily modified it to take into account and correct many of the problems with FIFA’s old rankings. Admittedly, I have absolutely no idea what they’re going to look like because I haven’t even started updating them from the base FIFA values yet.

    I considered using Elo for the starting values/positions, but they rank teams like Northern Cyprus and Iraqi Kurdistan which aren’t even recognized by UEFA/AFC, and I wasn’t sure if I really wanted to follow the CONIFA World Cup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONIFA_World_Football_Cup#Somaliland_2020) results lol.

    Anyway, I’ll keep y’all posted. If you don’t mind (@vancity eagle), I was thinking I’ll just post the first edition here in this thread, maybe once all the continental championships are over this summer.
     
    vancity eagle and EvanJ repped this.
  8. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a chicken and egg problem. Rankings need to consider the opponents' quality, and the opponents' quality can't be determined by your ranking before you made it, so it has to start from somewhere else.
     
    Every Four Years repped this.
  9. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Wow I just realized something about how poor FIFA rankings are.

    Under the new formula the #100 ranked team is worth 70% of the points as the #1 team

    Belgium at #1 is worth 1746 points
    Palestine at #100 is worth 1224 points

    Palestine is worth 70% of the points of Belgium.

    Is that really an accurate reflection of team strength.

    In my rankings the #1 team is worth 100 points and the #100 team is worth 30 points.

    So in my rankings the #100 team is worth 30% of the #1 team, whereas according to FIFA they are worth 70%.

    Now you can understand why these rankings are highly flawed and why poor teams like India, Palestine and Kyrgztan are way overrated.

    FIFA values winning more than the quality of opponent you beat.

    It doesn't take into account that bottom teams in tougher confederations will be at a disadvantage because there are no easy games, and they will be losing lots of games resulting in a very low rating. This is also a boost to weaker confederations who will climb even though playing weak opponents.
     
  10. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    The above is rubbish.

    Given that the FIFA rankings are entirely driven by the differences in the level between team rankings, rather than their ratio, the comparisons above are meaningless. I could redefine all FIFA ranks by subtracting 1,000 and nothing will change in the future - they'll always just be 1,000 less than they would otherwise be. Now Belgium = 746 and Palestine = 224 and Palestine is 30% of Belgium and *apparently* everything is fine.

    (I must admit I also find your comment "FIFA values winning more than the quality of the opponent you beat" odd given that your rankings also would not lower Belgium's rank *at all* if they played Guam 10 times in a row and only beat them 1-0 each time)

    J
     
  11. thewitness

    thewitness Member

    Melbourne Victory, Derby County
    Australia
    Jul 10, 2013
    Club:
    Derby County FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Your right, the ranking points are only useful with the formula that they apply to. The predicted probabilities of a result between #1 & #100 using any given ranking formula would be a smarter comparison.
     
  12. thewitness

    thewitness Member

    Melbourne Victory, Derby County
    Australia
    Jul 10, 2013
    Club:
    Derby County FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    I have been using my own ranking system since the South Africa WC. It does punish teams for not beating minnows by big enough margins, and conversely rewards the minnows for running close to the big boys. In your example Nigeria didn't lose points in my system as the difference between them and Burundi wasn't great enough, but Senegal did lose points for not winning by enough against Tanzania, as well as Panama losing points against Guyana.
     
  13. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The old FIFA formula rated opponents from 1 to 150. Winning or drawing against Number 1 was multiplied by 150, winning or drawing against Number 100 was multiplied by 51, and winning or drawing against every team from 150th down was multiplied by 1. The multiplier was the greater of 1 or 151 minus the opponent's rank. 51/150 is 34 percent, which is close to your formula. I'm not advocating for a return to the old formula. I'm just making a comparison.
     
  14. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Nothing odd at all. Why would Belgium lose points for WINNING games. You know the entire point of playing the game is TO WIN.

    The big difference is that in my rankings Belgium would stay static for beating Guam, while in this new FIFA rankings Belgium would actually GO UP.
     
  15. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Here is my updated top 100 rankings including June friendlies, Uefa qualifying, Uefa nations league, Copa America, Gold Cup, and African Nations league results.

    July 2019 World Soccer Rankings



    1. Belgium – 87
    2. France - 86
    3. Brazil – 80
    4. Spain - 78
    5. England - 77
    6. Croatia - 74
    7. Colombia – 71
    8. Denmark – 69
    9. Uruguay - 67
    10. Portugal - 64
    11. Germany – 63
    12. Switzerland - 62
    13. Argentina – 60
    14. Sweden - 60
    15. Holland – 59
    16. Russia - 56
    17. Italy - 55
    18. Chile – 52
    19. Senegal - 52
    20. Mexico – 50
    21. Nigeria – 50
    22. Venezuela - 50
    23. Japan – 49
    24. Serbia - 49
    25. Qatar - 48
    26. Iran – 48
    27. South Korea – 48
    28. Wales - 48
    29. Peru - 47
    30. Morocco - 47
    31. Algeria – 46
    32. USA - 46
    33. Poland - 46
    34. Ireland – 46
    35. Ukraine - 45
    36. Turkey - 44
    37. Austria – 44
    38. Paraguay - 43
    39. Iceland – 43
    40. Romania – 43
    41. Tunisia - 42
    42. Slovakia - 42
    43. Bosnia & H – 42
    44. Burkina Faso – 42
    45. Ghana – 41
    46. Ivory Coast - 39
    47. Egypt - 38
    48. Cameroon - 38
    49. Australia – 38
    50. Czech. Rep. - 38
    51. Costa Rica – 37
    52. South Africa - 37
    53. N. Ireland - 37
    54. Greece - 37
    55. Ecuador – 36
    56. Norway – 35
    57. Uganda - 34
    58. R. Congo – 34
    59. Zambia - 34
    60. Hungary - 33
    61. Finland - 33
    62. Bolivia – 33
    63. Mali – 32
    64. Scotland - 32
    65. Montenegro - 31
    66. Cape Verde – 31
    67. Georgia – 31
    68. Saudi Arabia - 30
    69. Kosovo - 30
    70. Bulgaria – 30
    71. Slovenia – 30
    72. Zimbabwe - 30
    73. Israel – 30
    74. Madagascar - 29
    75. Benin - 29
    76. Angola – 29
    77. Macedonia - 29
    78. Albania – 29
    79. Canada – 28
    80. Haiti – 27
    81. Honduras – 27
    82. Kenya - 27
    83. Iraq – 26
    84. Uzbekistan - 26
    85. Guinea – 26
    86. Mauritania – 26
    87. Togo - 26
    88. E. Guinea – 26
    89. Mozambique - 26
    90. Malawi - 26
    91. Jamaica – 25
    92. Panama - 25
    93. Comoros – 25
    94. Syria - 25
    95. Sierra Leone - 25
    96. Armenia – 25
    97. Congo – 25
    98. Rwanda – 25
    99. UAE - 24
    100. Gabon – 24
     
  16. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    To point one - this is not a league - the "points" mean literally nothing. If you say "Belgium is definitely better than Brazil" and then Belgium played 10 matches against Guam and could only win each one 1--0 and then said "no, Belgium is definitely better than Brazil" most people would call you out on that and say your rankings were stupid (and, not surprisingly, looking through this and similar threads, they do).

    As to the second point - they effectively wouldn't - that's why FIFA rounds them to ignore the silliness that occurs when you try and use a hands-off formula. Even if you "adjust" by using some personalised judgement formula, at some point people WILL start to get points (and lift their rankings) just by beating up on little guys.

    In summary, you don't understand what you are trying to do and your rankings are based on a delusion.

    Love

    J
     
  17. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    I love how you think its outrageous that Belgium wouldn't lose ground for only beating Guam 1-0, yet

    FIFA rankings are actually WORSE in this regard than my rankings because

    Yes Belgium would gain points for beating Guam 1-0, while mine they would stay static.

    So I'm waiting for you to say that the new FIFA rankings "are stupid"

    Also its funny that my rankings also take into account how much you lose by, whereas FIFA rankings DO NOT. So if you are so concerened about Belgium only beating Guam 1-0.

    Are you also concerned about Guam only losing 1-0 to Belgium and going down in points ? Because that is what happens under FIFA, and that IS STUPID. If a team as lowly ranked as Guam can only lose by 1-0 to Belgium, then THEY SHOULD BE GAINING POINTS AND NOT LOSING THEM. Because surely this would mean they are a team on the up and who are actually much better than they are ranked currently. Well my rankings takes care of that.

    You cannot complain that Belgium doesn't go down for only beating Guam 1-0 and not also complain that Guam does not go up for only losing 1-0 to Belgium.

    You are basically admitting that my rankings are superior to FIFA in this regard, and you dont even know it.

    umm yes they would. I dont think you have a clue what you are talking about. ANY victory and you gain points, that is just a fact, whether you beat Guam, Virgin Islands, Maldives, or whoever. The formula is such that any victory you go up in your overall points. I think that is a stupid idea, and that is why my rankings YOU CANNOT gain points from beating certain minnows, especially if you are highly ranked.

    If you look at my rankings points. Belgium has an average of 87 points. Under my rankings any team who does not have at least an average of 20 points is worth only 10 points if you beat them. Now given that Belgium averages 87 points per match, that 10 points would very likely bring their average down, and because under my forumla, victories that bring your average down are ignored, and instead of going up (like you do under FIFA rankings) you simply stay static.

    I understand exactly what I'm doing.

    I've created rankings which fixes the many problems of FIFA rankings which are based on a delusion.

    YOur delusion is that everything on this thread you have attacked my rankings for, FIFA IS ACTUALLY WORSE IN THAT REGARD.[/QUOTE]
     
  18. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Concacaf should hope FIFA doesn't listen to vancity eagle. Jamaica is 2 spots above Comoros in his rankings, and 94 spots above Comoros in the FIFA Rankings.
     
  19. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Comoros has recently tied both Cameroon and Morocco in competative matches.

    Jamaica tied Curacao and El Salvador, frankly they were quite poor at the recent gold cup, I expected much more of them. Had they not hosted the first match vs Honduras, it very likely would have been a first round exit.

    Nothing to suggest these two teams should be worlds apart in the rankings, based on ACTUAL results.

    FIFA is very slow and not very reactive to current reality. Its basically living in the past.
     
  20. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    It is doing exactly what people wanted. The old rankings allowed for a few months of good (or bad) results to catapult you up (or down) the rankings and fans in general didn't feel that was right and in the end that was what made FIFA adopt the new policy. So yes it is living in the past, because that is what most people prefer to do.
     
    SiberianThunderT repped this.
  21. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    The new FIFA rankings ARE stupid. Being better than FIFA is like being more mobile than Diego Maradona (Diego Maradona 2019 that is).

    I do love that you stick to your convictions so thoroughly though. I mean, as you so boldly state "the goal is to win". And, when anyone asks "name a winning national football team" who wouldn't immediately shout "Belgium". I mean, who doesn't remember their victory in the ... ah ... well, their glorious finals appearance in the ... um ... when they finished 2nd in a group of 3 behind Switzerland maybe. They did finish ahead of England in a world cup finals group - I can't think of anybody else who could do that and not be ranked in the top five at least.

    I mean, can anyone think of another ranking system that would also give Belgium the #1 spot?

    I mean ... besides FIFA!

    J
     
  22. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    France was #1 the month before, but after losing 2-0 to Turkey their average went down and they dropped to #2.

    Keep in mind France also had a poor UEFA nations league as well.

    So you are blaming me for Frances bad results ? LOL
     
  23. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    #23 vancity eagle, Nov 5, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
    my updated rankings including the October FIFA window results

    immedietly to the right are their points, and after that is the difference in rankings between my system and FIFA rankings.

    1. France - 87 +1
    2. Belgium – 87 -1
    3. Brazil – 76 0
    4. England – 76 0
    5. Spain - 76 +3
    6. Croatia - 73 +1
    7. Colombia – 70 +3
    8. Uruguay - 67 -3
    9. Denmark – 67 +5
    10. Portugal - 63 -4
    11. Argentina – 63 -2
    12. Switzerland - 62 +1
    13. Holland - 61 -1
    14. Germany – 61 +2
    15. Russia – 58 +22
    16. Sweden - 58 +2
    17. Italy – 55 -2
    18. Venezuela - 53 +8
    19. Senegal - 52 +1
    20. Chile – 50 -3
    21. Mexico - 49 -10
    22. Algeria – 49 +16
    23. Nigeria - 49 +12
    24. Japan – 49 +4
    25. Serbia – 48 +8
    26. Ukraine – 47 -4
    27. Wales - 47 -3
    28. Qatar – 47 +29
    29. S. Korea - 47 +10
    30. Peru - 46 -11
    31. Iran – 46 -4
    32. Turkey - 45 0
    33. Austria – 45 -8
    34. Ireland R – 45 +2
    35. Morocco – 44 +7
    36. Poland – 44 -15
    37. USA - 44 -14
    38. Paraguay – 42 +3
    39. Romania - 42 -10
    40. Bosnia – 42 +8
    41. Burkina Faso – 42 +19
    42. Tunisia - 41 -13
    43. Ghana – 41 +8
    44. Iceland – 41 -4
    45. Ivory Coast - 40 +11
    46. Cameroon – 39 +6
    47. Slovakia - 39 -16
    48. Norway - 39 -3
    49. Egypt - 38 0
    50. Czech Rep. - 38 -7
    51. Australia – 38 -7
    52. Costa Rica – 38 -5
    53. N. Ireland – 37 -19
    54. South Africa - 37 +18
    55. Ecuador – 36 +8
    56. Greece – 36 +2
    57. R. Congo - 34 -3
    58. Finland – 34 -3
    59. Zambia - 34 +22
    60. Georgia – 34 +30
    61. Uganda - 34 +18
    62. Montenegro - 32 0
    63. Mali - 31 -4
    64. Hungary – 31 -14
    65. Kosovo – 31 +49
    66. Slovenia - 31 -1
    67. Scotland - 31 -14
    68. Benin – 31 +14
    69. Cape Verde - 31 +8
    70. Canada – 30 -1
    71. Honduras – 30 -8
    72. Saudi Arabia - 30 -2
    73. Albania – 30 -7
    74. Bolivia – 29 +1
    75. Madagascar - 29 +20
    76. Angola – 29 +44
    77. Zimbabwe - 29 +40
    78. Gabon - 28 +9
    79. Bulgaria – 28 -18
    80. Macedonia - 28 -12
    81. Iraq – 27 -7
    82. Togo - 26 +42
    83. Israel – 26 +6
    84. Libya – 26 +19
    85. Mozambique - 26 +27
    86. Kenya - 26 +22
    87. Jamaica - 25 -42
    88. Guinea – 25 -10
    89. Haiti – 25 -1
    90. Uzbekistan - 25 -5
    91. Syria - 25 -8
    92. Armenia – 25 +7
    93. Mauritania – 25 +12
    94. Rwanda - 25 +35
    95. E. Guinea - 25 +40
    96. Comoros – 24 +46
    97. Sierra Leone – 24 +20
    98. Tanzania - 24 +35
    99. Congo – 24 -7
    100. Malawi – 24 +24
     
  24. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    I'm interested in what people think is a reasonable margin of difference between my rankings and FIFA's.

    There are clearly many countries who have very similar ranks in both rankings, and then others that or vastly different.

    What is a reasonable margin, before we have to consider serious flaws in either FIFA or my methodology ?
     
  25. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Top 10 underrated teams according to my rankings

    1. Kosovo +49
    2. Comoros +46
    3. Angola +44
    4. Togo +42
    5. Zimbabwe +40
    6. E. Guinea +40
    7. Tanzania +35
    8. Rwanda +35
    9. Georgia +30
    10. Qatar +29

    Analysis of this shows that according to my rankings FIFA vastly underrates African sides, especially when it comes to the lower tier sides. 7 of the 10 most underrated sides are from Africa, and they are all at the lower end of my top 100. The highest ranked of these sides is Angola #76. So while there is much more agreement with our rankings near the top, the further we get to the bottom the more discrepancy there seems to be.

    WHY ?

    The reason for this discrepency, and IMO FIFA's severe underrating of lower tier African sides is simple.

    FIFA rankings values simply winning against any opposition, more than it does the strength of the opponent. Under this system draws are severely undervalued. And thus teams which draw a lot (which happens very often in CAF due to the parity between teams) will be punished.

    Lets look at an example of what I am talking about and compare how my rankings works next to FIFA's. Lets look at the Concacaf Nations League group which includes USA, Canada, Cuba. When the games took place which I am about to analyze, according to FIFA USA was #21, Canada #75, and Cuba #178. Canada gained 5 points for beating Cuba. They gained 17 points for beating USA.

    So right there is a problem already. You mean to tell me that beating Cuba is roughly 1/3 of the points for beating the USA. That is a criminal overestimation of how good you need to be to beat Cuba.

    But it gets much worse. If Canada tied the USA they would get 4.39 points.

    So FIFA thinks that beating Cuba #178 should be worth more points than drawing against USA #21 ? That is utterly disgusting and ridiculous, and anybody who cannot see how this will create a very unbalanced, unreliable, and unrealistic set of rankings needs help.

    This is why Africa is very undervalued by FIFA, especially at the bottom end, because they are punished for being in a competative confederation where there are plenty of draws, and FIFA punishes teams for draws
    .

    Also very lowly ranked teams get no credit for losing by respectable scorelines to very highly ranked teams. So if a team like Comoros, who I rate much higher than FIFA can lose by a single goal against top African sides like Nigeria, Ghana, Tunisia etc, they will go down in rankings, not to mention that drawing these teams, also will not help them that much either.

    FIFA is essentially saying that beating Cuba 1-0 is worth more than losing to Brazil 1-0. Anybody who thinks that beating Cuba 1-0 is more indicative of quality than losing to Brazil 1-0, also needs their head checked. My rankings essentially takes the opposite approach, that a team should get more points for losing to Brazil 1-0 than beating Cuba 1-0. Also drawing the USA in my rankings would definately get you more points than beating Cuba. For heavens sake is this real.


    2 of the sides not from CAF which my rankings values far more than FIFA are Kosovo and Qatar.

    Qatar of course winners of the AFC Asian cup in 2019 and Kosovo a newly created country which is rapidly on the rise and has a string of very credible results.

    WHY ?

    Again the reason for this discrepency is very simple. FIFA rankings are just far too slow to react, while my rankings are more reflective of current form. I understand the need for not being over reactive to results either, but FIFA is just far too slow.

    The reigning Asian champions who won perhaps the most convincing Asian championship ever, by beating all the top teams is still ranked 30 places lower than both Japan and Iran. That again is ridiculous.

    Lets look more at how ridiculous this actually is, and I will go back to the example of the Nations league group with USA, Canada, Cuba.

    If USA loses to Cuba, they lose 22 points. Currently they have 1530. Lets just say USA lost to Cuba 5 times in a row. We all agree how poor a team Cuba is (sorry to pick on Cuba, I love the country but just making a point) If USA lost 10 straight matches against Cuba they would lose 110 points, bringing them down to 1420, where they would still be ranked #52 in the world (assuming nobody else switched positions) This would still put them above Asian champions Qatar, above Ivory Coast (the only team to draw AFCON champions Algeria at the concluded ANC) above Ecuador. Now keep in mind this would never happen, but this just shows you how utterly poor you could be, and how FIFA is very slow to react. Any team that loses to Cuba 5 times in a row, really should not be in the top 100 period.


    Top 10 overrated teams according to my rankings

    1. Jamaica -42
    2. N. Ireland -19
    3. Bulgaria -18
    4. Slovakia -16
    5. Poland -15
    6. Hungary -14
    7. Scotland -14
    8. USA -14
    9. Tunisia -13
    10. Macedonia -12


    Now analysis of this shows that 7 of the 10 most overrated sides according to my rankings are from UEFA. Of these 7 overrated UEFA sides, only 1 of them (Poland) made it to the WorldCup in 2018, (the finished dead last in what was considered one of the easier groups) none of them made it to the World cup in Brazil, and only Slovakia made it to the world cup in South Africa.

    WHY ?

    As established above FIFA rankings are very slow to react. Due to the old FIFA rankings Uefa sides gained more points for the exact same results achieved by "lesser" confederations. Because of this Uefa sides are overranked by the old system, and the new system which is slow to react is keeping these overrated sides up for longer than they need to be. If you look at the trajectory of even FIFAs rankings all these sides my rankings underrates, are all steadily going down in FIFAs rankings as well. Its just taking way too long for them to get to where they realistically should be. We will get there eventually.


    We notice that 2 of the top 10 overrated sides are from Concacaf, while the most overrated side in the entire top 100, BY FAR, is also from concacaf Jamaica, which is ranked 42 spots higher by FIFA than where I have them. The next highest is N. Ireland at 19 spots above.

    WHY ?

    Jamaica is ranked highly in FIFA rankings due to the Gold Cup results of 2017, where they scored a victory and a draw against Mexico. My rankings did not count 2017 Gold cup results against Mexico because was a B squad sent to that tournament while the A squad was playing at the Confederations Cup. I do not usually judge A squad or B squad for official matches or official friendlies, but Mexico at the time was also playing in the Confederations Cup. A team cannot be playing in 2 places at the same time. I made the decision not to count those results. Jamaica also benefits as do all teams from Concacaf and AFC from playing weak opposition and winning (Cuba example from above).
     
    Hayaka, edcalvi and Every Four Years repped this.

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