This my "WM-system" German XI -----11-Hans SCHÄFER---------9-Edmund CONEN-------7-Helmut RAHN ---------------10-Friedrich WALTER---------------8-Friedrich SZEPAN -----------------6-Horst SZYMANIAK-------------4-Andreas KUPFER -3-Erich JUSKOWIAK---5-Ludwig GOLDBRUNNER----2-Paul JANES -----------------------------------------1-Anton TUREK Note: players that started their career in the WM but whose career expanded into the 1970s (notably Uwe Seeler and Karl-Heinz Schnellinger) are considered modern players and thus not part of this.
This my "WW-system" German XI ------11-Ludwig HOFMANN-------9-Otto HARDER--------7-Karl WEGELE ---------------10-Richard HOFMANN----------------------8-Eugen KIPP ----6-Carl RIEGEL------------------5-Hans KALB----------------4-Hans SCHMIDT -------------------------3-Ernst HOLLSTEIN---------2-Hans STUBB -------------------------------------1-Heinrich STUHLFAUTH
Curiously an all-time German XI, using a similar group of players I will have put in originally, seems to work ok to me in WM! (And doesn't even seem over-attacking in comparison to the other formations available necessarily, although Breitner at left-back and one centre-back means it's not exactly cautious either). Maier; Vogts, K-H Forster, Breitner; Sammer, Beckenbauer; Matthaus, Netzer; Rummenigge, Muller, Littbarski Notes: - Definitely take what you say on board about Maier and Neuer and don't conclusively disagree based on what I've seen. Especially coming from you (not a modernist as you would describe it!, so not against thinking players of yesteryear can be superior attribute wise in many cases). Maybe Maier didn't seem the most athletic and spectacular even compared to various keepers (I'm thinking worldwide but perhaps also German ones) of his own time and before though, and his legend is I suppose based on unlikely saves and games where he manages to keep clean sheets any which way etc. Can understand a feasible change there though anyway. - Maybe Rummenigge and Littbarski wide is not typical WM winger wise, but actually someone like Cliff Bastin used to come infield and score lots of goals in such a system going way back into the pre-WW2 times. - Fritz Walter as inside forward would surely seem a good option. Whether taking Matthaus out or even putting him as a wing half would be best if including Walter, in preference to removing Netzer ,might be up for debate or depend on form/opposition etc etc. - In the pyramid style perhaps Beckenbauer or Sammer would be centre-half, but for WM no. - I know he doesn't tend to be rated so high compared to other Germans by Germans, but if a WM with wingers who played predominantly wide was used I guess Klinsmann, especially prime Klinsmann might be useful (although perhaps also Fischer?). Anyway, Muller would never be omitted as centre-forward and in a traditional WM like you show wouldn't play inside forward.
Hmm, I'll try it this way too. I'd thought the WW was like a 3-2-3-2 (thinking Hungary in the 50s basically played like that) but maybe I made a mistake there - suppose it depends whether the W is meant to be the defence or the attack! Maybe both can be called WW even, depending on interpretation! Anyway, this is pre-WM in effect of course - nice work managing to put that XI together! I guess I could go with this for all-time 2-3-2-3 (maybe somehow it even resembles a modern formation a bit more although I know that the back two in those days didn't necessarily play like full-time centre-backs and the wing-halves not like full-backs or wing-backs exactly - as per the info you showed recently): I'll stick Neuer in this one as maybe the sweeper keeper attributes would be useful lol: Neuer; Vogts, Helmer; Sammer, Beckenbauer, Breitner; Hassler, Walter; Rummenigge, Muller, Littbarski (Probably Littbarski and Rummenigge can switch sides in both options). (If Overath goes in either team, I guess it is as inside left).
Update adding @msioux75 's team plus an XI based on most appearances in the annual Top 23s. GK: Maier 8 votes, Kahn 5, Neuer 3 RB: Vogts 8, Kaltz 2 LB: Lahm 7, Brehme 5, Schnellinger 3, Briegel 1 Sweeper: Beckenbauer 16, Sammer 2 CB: Kohler 11, Forster 5, Boateng 1 DM: Matthaus 16 CM: Breitner 10, Schweinsteiger 2, Effenberg 1, Kroos 1 AM: Netzer 9, Szepan 2, Haller 1, T Muller 1, Schuster 1 LM: Overath 7 OR: Littbarski 3, Rahn 3 OL: Heynckes 1 FW: Rummenigge 15, F Walter 6, Seeler 2, Hofmann 1 Striker: G Muller 16, Klinsmann 1
I guess in effect, bearing in mind what annoyedbyneedoflogin said about Overath too, the consensus XI ends up with a sweeper plus a magic square (even if I guess not many individual voters chose that combo and the latter isn't especially a German tradition!): ---------------------------Maier------------------------- Lahm-------------Kohler------Beckenbauer------Lahm --------------------Matthaus----Breitner-------------- ----------------Netzer---------------Overath----------- ---------------Rummenigge------Muller------------------ Beckenbauer could be lined up behind the other 3 to show he's a sweeper/libero, but as Gregoriak has illustrated before he was sometimes as likely to play from just in front of them, and maybe showing him in a line of 4 is most suitable overall and it was his style of play that made him the sweeper/libero. Maybe that diagram allows for Matthaus to be a bit box to box with Breitner at the same level. Rummenigge would be roaming more than Muller but I'd need arrows for that lol!
Yes, a team of players with the most votes does not necessarily produce the best balanced side. Some players were picked in different positions, like Lahm at right and left back; Breitner at left back and in midfield. In terms of votes the only players outside the main eleven pushing for a place are Brehme, Forster (in a 3-5-2) and Fritz Walter. Annoyedbyneedoflogin's point about width is valid. Brehme would provide that, as well as a strong left foot. Overath's left-footedness is in his favour. He is usually seen as an alternative to Netzer rather than a partner. Rummenigge could play on the right wing.
"Choose the best player for every position, and you’ll end up not with a strong XI, but with 11 strong 1’s."
Hi, i am french, am signed on this site in order to speak about all time best team ever...please talk with me... brazil ======ronaldo===pelé==== ===zico===========garrincha= ========= didi===dunga========= =n.santos==============cafu== =========lucio=l.pereira== ============gilmar=========== argentina ==========batistuta========== =di stefano==============messi== ============maradona======= ========monti=======redondo====== ==marzolini===============j.zanetti= =========passarella===perfumo== ============fillol================ france ===========henry========= ====zidane====platini=====kopa= =========makelele==tigana==== =amoros===============thuram= ==========desailly==tresor===== =============barthez======= italy ===========meazza========== ==baggio==================rivera=== =========pirlo======tardelli====== ==maldini===================bergomi= ==========scirea====gentile============ ===============baresi========= ===============buffon============== spain ===========raul======= ==gento==============iniesta==== ========suarez====xavi====== =============pirri=========== =camacho============ramos==== ===========hierro==puyol====== =============casillas============ germany ==========g.muller======= ===walter==============rummenigge== =============netzer========== ======breitner====matthaus====== ===lahm=================vogts== =========kohler==beckenbauer==== ===============maier=========== holland ============van basten======= ===cruyff======bergkamp====gullit=== =========neeskens===rijkaard==== =krol======================suurbier= ==========stam===koeman===== =============van der sar====== england =======greaves====keegan========= ===b.charlton=========matthews= =======d.edwards==scholes===== ==a.cole==================armfield== =========moore===b.wright=== ==============banks======= portugal ============eusebio====== ==c.ronaldo=================figo=== =============rui costa=========== ========deco=====coluna======== ==inacio==============joao.d.pinto =========r.carvalho=pepe====== ==============v.baia========= what do you think of my teams? thanks
i have considered potential of players on their career (club also) and not only on their national team....ex makelele for his potential (real,chelsea) edit: i put zamora (gk) and exit casillas.. for argentina i edit, i put : =======di stefano====== =moreno==maradona===messi
Denmark ----------------------------------------Peter Schmeichel----------------------------------------- Johnny Hansen--------Fritz Tarp---------Morten Olsen---------Valdemar Laursen -----Karl Aage Hansen--------Michael Laudrup---------------Soren Lerby----------- Allan Simonsen------------------Sophus Nielsen--------------------Carl Aage Praest Old thread below. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/denmark-and-sweden-all-time-xi.450477/
That seems to be a really nice attempt based on historical significance (albeit I'm not so familiar with the defenders outside Olsen, and didn't read Tarp's name until the eulogising about him Gregoriak posted recently....which if reflecting commonly held views certainly made a case for him in such an XI). If I try a 'best players, to the best of my knowledge/experience' XI and use an Ajax/Cruyff style 3-4-3 then maybe I end with this, with Praest still making it in: Schmeichel; Sivebaek, M.Olsen, Heintze; Lerby; Arnesen, M.Laudrup; B.Laudrup; Simonsen, Elkjaer, Praest. (In reality I think Brian would be moving to both wings a lot and Michael in effect stepping into the 'number 10' role a lot in game mode).
I would probably go 442 with John Hansen instead of Praest, since both him and Nielsen were also inside players. Laudrup can then move to imho his best position on the left. Middelboe over Lerby.
Denmark 2nd team 433 1 Henny From 2 Thomas Helveg 3 Jan Heintze 4 Ivan Nielsen 5 Daniel Agger 6 Søren Lerby 7 Brian Laudrup 8 Helge Bronée 9 Poul Nielsen 10 Jan Mølby 11 Carl Aage Praest
Denmark 3rd team 352 Gk Thomas Sørensen Left defender Harald Hansen Libero Per Røntved Right defender Søren Busk Left flank Jesper Olsen Right flank John Sivebaek Holding midfielder Thomas Gravesen Left creative midfielder Christian Eriksen Right creative midfielder Finn Laudrup Left forward Henning Jensen Right forward Preben Elkjaer
Denmark 4th team 433 1 Troels Rasmussen 2 Ole Tobiasen 3 Henrik Andersen 4 Martin Laursen 5 Lars Olsen 6 Christian Poulsen 7 Jesper Grønkjaer 8 Frank Arnesen 9 Pauli Jørgensen 10 Kenneth Pérez 11 Peter Løvenkrands
Chile 433 Yáñez over Jaime Ramírez. Hormazábal was more like an 8. Medel was great as defender in the Copa América 2015. Zamorano fits better than Salas here.
I'm not sure if J.Pizarro played as LB, but his peak years and fame were playing as a Central Midfielder
If found this small piece: Jaime Pizarro (1990-1993): En una época de transición del fútbol chileno, post Maracanazo, el lateral izquierdo albo fue el líder dentro de la cancha encomendado por el DT Arturo Salah. Siempre mesurado en su relación con la dirigencia y los medios, además de su rendimiento en la cancha, el Kaiser impuso ese estilo mientras estuvo al mando en 18 partidos, en las Copa América de 1991 y 1993. From https://www.guioteca.com/seleccion-...co-de-la-roja-un-debate-con-muchos-favoritos/ His stamina was his greatest attribute and he gets a lot of mentions as alltime back for Chile. But I agree its a bit speculative.
Sweden XI The difficulty with Sweden is the abundance of strikers and lack of centerbacks. The first issue resolves itself simply by position. Nordahl used to hang a bit left of the center. Larsson used to hang left of the center. Ibrahimovic dito. So there is overlap when playing multiple strikers. Also all were good passers but none had an eye for the throughball, which makes it inefficient having one behind another when considering the alternatives. Rydell might be an exception, but we conclude its best to only feature one striker (and Kurt Hamrin). The second issue is that of the centerbacks. Mellberg, Andersson, Nacka, Hysen, Gustavsson, Nordqvist among others, all had decent careers but none stand out. Thern, Strömberg and Bo Larsson have played in defense but were stronger as midfielders. Orvar Bergmark stood out in WW formation but is somehow remembered as right back. Choosing a WM formation offers the solution of only needing one CB and having Bergmark in a suited "right" position. It also accomodates Erik Nilsson in his best position. Bertil Nordahl did well in this CB position, winning a Guldbollen and a transfer abroad. He arguably had the best Serie A career of any Swedish defender, although a knee injury cut it short.
I like the interesting 'midfield parallelogram' in that adjusted WM. Of course many teams did play with one wing half holding back more than the other, and one inside forward more advanced than the other, so it's not really an unusual system as such and I can understand the idea you've explained in terms of why you chose it.
Here, there are some match grades from Copa America 1987, Pizarro is listed as Midfielder. For Clarin, he's listed as #8 or #10. Again, El Clarín, now for Copa America 1989, Pizarro is listed as midfielder. Here, the line-up for games v. Brazil at WCQ 1990. In the next, period, is also listed as midfielder at Copa America 1991. In Colo Colo at early 1990s, I also remember Pizarro as Central Midfielder, being the full backs, Gabriel Mendoza and Javier Margas, the centerbacks Lizardo Garrido and Miguel Ramírez, as DM played Eduardo Vilches. Pizarro at his peak was very complete, good at defending and good launching the attack, even scoring from long range shot.