All-time XIs by country

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Hidegkuti78, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I guess if you tweeked it to 4-1-4-1 it wouldn't be abnormal as such. De Bruyne and Silva playing in the middle for Man City for example.

    But yes, unless my 'mad' side tries to squeeze Futre in or something lol (or Jose Augusto or Simoes if going further back again) then I'm fairly sure I'd be putting Coluna in Maniche's place (but yes I understand that as with me and Zarra perhaps you're reluctant to include him due to not being familiar enough).
     
  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #77 msioux75, Nov 4, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
    Hidegkuti and Kubala were versatile forwards and played as RW at high level. I think Kubala had the better conditions to perform in that place.

    In the case of Sarosi, I think he play more in central roles equally well, mainly as CF, but also Inside Forward or defender or midfielder.
     
    peterhrt repped this.
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    If a 'normal back 4 was chosen for Hungary as Peter suggested, the Hungarian expert panel of FourFourTwo (as shown on the links I posted earlier) would have probably been selecting Buzanszky at right back, with Matrai alongside Mezsoly in the middle as in the 1966 World Cup I guess, based on points voted. The 1960s defensive players tended to do pretty well in that vote I noticed in general.

    How the front of the team fits together then might be the puzzler! Maybe 4-1-3-2 with Bozsik as DM seems the most likely call (and not so different from their famous formation of the 50s still). Maybe Hidegkuti fits slightly better than Albert as a CAM playmaker, although Albert dropped pretty deep in that 1966 World Cup, to initiate things from midfield.
     
  4. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    According to eu-football.info, Sarosi played 18 of his 62 games for Hungary at centre-half. They were all at the beginning of his career in the early 1930s. At this time I think he would have been an old-fashioned roving centre-half rather than a pure defender.

    In club football he must have spent most of his time in attack to have scored all those goals.
     
    msioux75 repped this.
  5. Hidegkuti78

    Hidegkuti78 Member

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    I like the 4141 idea and it could work, but on the other hand I do not rate Deco as highly as making it worth unbalancing the team to make room for him instead of a DM.
     
  6. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    #81 Perú FC, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
    Spain

    Ricardo Zamora

    Fernando Hierro --- Sergio Ramos

    ---- Carles Puyol ---------------------------------------------- José A. Camacho

    Pirri

    ------ Xavi ---------- Luis Suárez

    ---- Andrés Iniesta --------------------------------------------- Francisco Gento

    Telmo Zarra
    In my opinion, Pirri is not only a greater relevance option, but also who solve the dilemma because he seems to be a kind of combination of the best of all of them to be able to adapt to any possible system with an all-time Spanish team.
     
    Gregoriak and peterhrt repped this.
  7. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    With that lineup, I'd argue Ramos and Puyol need to switch places. Puyol was never a world-class RB. Ramos was actually recognised as a top RB, including playing the role in EURO2008. His skillset is also more suitable, as he has far superior ball playing abilities. Puyol, as a stopper, would work well with Hierro as well.

    Not sure about Iniesta on the right. As a playmaker, he preferred cutting inside when deployed wide, which works best when he's on the left. At both EURO 2008 and WC2010, he was wide left, while the left-footer Silva was wide-right.

    Since this lineup obviously prefers possession based football, the technically-gifted Raul is perhaps a better fit than Zarra?
     
    Perú FC and peterhrt repped this.
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    His name did cross my mind (also possible that he can challenge for a place in defence I think? - maybe alternative to Hierro, but in your XI also maybe interchangeable with him potentially?).

    I suppose I just felt I know Busquets works well in that midfield (I have Iniesta in his more central role too of course) and also that in that team I picked, somebody who could be more expansive might not be necessary.
     
  9. Hidegkuti78

    Hidegkuti78 Member

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    Well we have two outstanding players competing for the wide left position there (albeit one does only because his natural position is occupied by Luisito).
    Since none of them two (Iniesta and Gento) can be left out of the selection, I can see the case for putting Gento where he always played and Iniesta on the right since he can basically play wherever he wants.
    However, I put Gento on the right because I think that if the inverted winger had existed at his time, he would have been a great one!
     
    Perú FC repped this.
  10. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    This is very close to my team. A good mix of old stars and modern world beaters. Agree with @poetgooner that Puyol and Ramos should swap places.

    Many people would probably have a midfield of Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez and Gento. That means one forward, and no place for the original Spanish deep-lying playmaker Samitier.

    The dilemma is that none of these four were regular goalscorers, which suggests that a prolific marksman like Zarra, Langara or Villa is needed. If Gento plays it makes sense to pick Zarra, who was very strong in the air. But, as just mentioned, neither suits a possession-based game as well as Raul would.

    Given his record in the Latin American leagues, where he was considered the best-ever European import, I would be tempted to go for Langara.
     
    Perú FC repped this.
  11. Hidegkuti78

    Hidegkuti78 Member

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    Uh, I just realized that Di Stéfano played for Spain too.

    I think I'll say bye to both Zarra and Raul then :)
     
  12. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Bolzplatz
    http://www.nela.hu/nch_list.php
     
    wm442433 repped this.
  13. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Obviously if Di Stefano is included, he'd be the first name on the list, although I'm not sure he should.

    With some imagination, the all-time Spanish team doesn't lack goals. If instead of a winger feeding strikers, Gento played on the right and cutting inside, would he score more goals? His goal/game ratio isn't shabby. Luis Suarez, if freed from pure playmaking duty by Xavi, would score more goals as well. He was a high-scoring midfielder back in his Barcelona days, but obviously reached his peak as a deep playmaker with Inter.
     
  14. wm442433

    wm442433 Member

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Interestingly, Polgar would have played as CF in the first day match of the 1934-1935 season. Must be true.
     
  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #90 PDG1978, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
    I quite like the old World Cup system of naming 5 subs from a larger squad for this (to extend it beyond the XI).

    I think I only named an XI for Spain so far on this particular thread (Clough, Robson etc named the other team I posted!). I'd be quite uncertain on 5 subs, but theoretically for a game in which my XI was chosen and with a view to committing to the style and probably formation (but Iniesta could go left and it could be tweeked - if a left winger was really required at a certain time I guess Gordillo could move forwards too), I might take a punt on:
    Andoni Zubizaretta
    Joan Segarra
    Pirri
    Rafael Martin Vazquez
    David Villa

    I would think another 7 for a squad could be something like:
    Iker Casillas
    Sergio Ramos
    Jose Antonio Camacho
    Xabi Alonso
    Francisco Gento
    Amancio
    Fernando Torres

    (Pending a decision on Zarra ie getting a better idea of really how good he was!)
     
  16. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Until recently I'd have strongly agreed, but since I was reviewing the 2000's seasons carefully I'm let with the impression of a great Puyol's version in the 2002-03 season alternating as the right defender in a 3-men defensive line and right-back with a lot of energy for pressure, covers and a nothing bad projection.

    Although I agree that Ramos is better with the ball on his feet, I feel that Puyol shows in general a greater physical power in that version and could efficiently cover the projections of Hierro as an offensive sweeper in a 3-men defensive line again.

    Anyway, it seems me fair to exchange their positions too to pose a very functional central defense with Hierro as the sweeper and Puyol as the stopper.

    I also thought to consider there Quincoces or Pirri as defender.

    I've to say that I'm not sure either, but I thought more about a very mobile midfield with Xavi, Suárez and Iniesta creating dynamic triangulations without such fixed positions. In the graphic representation I only placed him on the right because Gento is even more familiar by the left flank, but I think he could be a kind of free-role playmaker on either side (or Suárez appealing to his young version).

    As the midfield would be so nourished by excellent passers and assistants, I aimed rather at a striker focused on the definition and Zarra seems to be the best option from that point of view (I also thought about Lángara), but I agree that Raúl would be a good option in the idea that you mention.
     
  17. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Yes, I think both could well be interchangeable, although I've the impression, from what I've seen on Pirri, that he could be more profitable in that type of midfield because in addition to his brave defensive skills, he also acted very well as a kind of deep-lying playmaker with the ball on his feet as Busquets nowadays.
     
  18. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    If Di Stéfano's option becomes available then I'd begin to assemble the Spanish team from him, but personally I wouldn't like to include him (neither to Kubala, for example) because I always preferred to include all the players only in their original national teams if they played for their countries of birth at least once.
     
  19. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    In that way, about the ones I've published:

    Peru

    GK Valdivieso, Juan
    CB Delgado, Guillermo
    CB Chumpitaz, Héctor
    RB Duarte, Jaime
    LB Fuentes, Nicolás
    DM Velásquez, José
    PM Cueto, César
    AM Cubillas, Teófilo
    WF Sotil, Hugo
    WF Joya, Juan
    ST Fernández, Teodoro

    GK Soriano, José
    GK Asca, Rafael
    CB Meléndez, Julio
    LB Díaz, Rubén
    DM Benítez, Víctor
    CM Castillo, Segundo
    SM Solano, Nolberto
    AM Uribe, Julio César
    AM Terry, Alberto
    WF Muñante, Juan José
    WF Seminario, Juan
    ST López, Valeriano

    Spain

    GK Zamora, Ricardo
    CB Hierro, Fernando
    CB Puyol, Carles
    RB Ramos, Sergio
    LB Camacho, José Antonio
    DM Pirri
    CM Xavi
    PM Suárez, Luis
    AM Iniesta, Andrés
    WF Gento, Francisco
    ST Zarra, Telmo

    GK Casillas, Íker
    GK Arconada, Luis
    CB Quincoces, Jacinto
    LB Segarra, Joan
    DM Alonso, Xabi
    DM Guardiola, Josep
    AM Samitier, Josep
    WF Amancio
    WF Basora, Estanislao
    FW Raúl
    ST Villa, David
    ST Lángara, Isidro
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Out of interest, who do you think you might pick as the 5 subs (a la 1970s and 1980s World Cups) if allocated that many in a theoretical opening match (although not knowing the theoretical opposition lol!), or let's say in a 'big' match against a top level team in a theoretical knock-out game?
     
  21. La-Máquina

    La-Máquina BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 5, 2013
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    This All-Time Spanish XI would likely have 60+% possession so I have utilised a WM formation. 11 legends who could play this formation.


    Lineup:
    ...........................................Iker CASILLAS

    ........Sergio RAMOS.......Fernando HIERRO.........Carles PUYOL

    ..............................Luis SUÁREZ..............PIRRI

    .........................XAVI Hernández...........Andrés INIESTA
    ...........................................RAÚL González
    ..............David VILLA..............................................Francisco GENTO


    Roles:
    Sergio RAMOS/Carles PUYOL - [side centreback]
    Fernando HIERRO - [centrehalf]
    Luis SUÁREZ - [deep lying playmaker]
    PIRRI - [box-to-box defensive midfielder (libero)]
    XAVI Hernández/Andrés INIESTA - [central playmaker]
    RAÚL González - [withdrawn centreforward]
    David VILLA - [right wingforward]
    Francisco GENTO - [left winger]


    Substitutes:
    José Ángel IRIBAR [Iker CASILLAS]
    José Antonio CAMACHO [Carles PUYOL]
    Xabi ALONSO [Luis SUÁREZ]
    AMANCIO Amaro [David VILLA]
    Emilio BUTRAGUEÑO [RAÚL González]
     
    Perú FC repped this.
  22. Hidegkuti78

    Hidegkuti78 Member

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    The Argentina one went unnoticed.

    My proposal is again driven by the fact they have, well, "a couple of great 10s" and the wish to make them play together in a realistic formation. However, I am not sure it fits their traditional style.

    4222

    Fillol;
    Zanetti, Passarella, Samuel, Marzolini;
    Monti, Redondo;
    Messi, Maradona;
    Batistuta, Di Stéfano.

    Curiously enough, this 4222 formation (which I am quite fond of) which only has a relevant history for Brazil, turns out NOT to be the best one, IMHO, for Brazil itself (basically because of Garrincha).
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    And for France (le Carre Magique).

    If I would not use it for France, it is because I want to fit Pires in actually I think! But in some ways it makes sense to use it, but tweek it to 4-2-2-1-1, with Kopa in behind Fontaine, or perhaps Henry....because then Platini and Zidane can be the AMs and in say a 4-2-3-1 one has to play deeper (which I don't mind, but some would do!), or wider (can also be that Kopa-Platini-Zidane is the 3 behind the striker which I think would be popular), or Zidane is left on the bench or something maybe!!

    But if I put Pires as one of my 5 subs, then my French selection, following on from my Spanish one, could be:
    Bats; Amoros, Blanc, Desailly, LIzarazu; Tigana, Vieira; Platini, Zidane; Kopa; Fontaine
    Subs: Lloris, Thuram, Bossis, Pires, Henry
    Squad members: Barthez, Tresor, Battiston, Deschamps, Genghini, Piantoni, Cantona

    (Again, I'm slightly unsure I'd actually leave a particular striker out the squad though - this time Papin....hmm, maybe better to go without Deschamps.....??)
    (Also tempted by Rocheteau, who at his best would fit well as attacker ahead of a Magic Square I think...and did at times....perhaps him for Piantoni....)
     
  24. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Isn't Moreno a shoe-in for the XI?
     
  25. Hidegkuti78

    Hidegkuti78 Member

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    I confess I am so unfamiliar with him that his name didn't even cross my mind. My bad, I guess.
    How would the team look like with him?
     

Share This Page