this is a funny one to make. french international succes came in the mid 80ies and the late 90ies but in the past they had lots of great players 9fontaine, jonquet, kopa). anyways here it is. formation is 4-2-3-1 goal : bats (france did not have all time great goalies but bats was better then that clown bartez) leftback : lizerazu (a very good solid defender not top 10 all time but defintely top 15) rightback ; amoros (i rank him higher then thuram) central defender : desailly central defender : tresor (an underrated player) leftdefensive midfield : tigana rightdefensive midfield : vieira left attcking midfield : zidane right attacking midfield : kopa ( somewhat forgotten player but a truly great player) playmaker : platini : best french player ever. also had lots of game intelligence) striker : henry ( in his prime an absolute goalmachine) not the greatest all time team but most defintely a solid top 10 all time international team
If you don't have Thuram as RB then you might consider him as CB at least. And Barthez is unjustified labeled as clown for his later Manchester years where you probably saw most of him.
Why is it certain that Barthez showed a great level during his Monaco days? Yes, Wenger has said so but that is not always a letter of approval. Any other evidence?
i choose tresor and desailly in the centre of defense and if had to loose one of those i would pick laurent blanc. thuram was very good i personally rate amoros just a bit higher
In general it's a good team. However my 2 cents: 1- Striker: Henry was a great choice but often he was NOT a great center forward (but rather a forward surging from left with another decoy in center. ) Unless it is a 4 4 2 formation (Henry would be 1st choice) Since your is 4 2 3 1 hence Juste Fontaine must be a BEST choice as center striker 2- Right back: Again it is a close call, but Thuram should take a headlight in this position no doubt! Thuram was just more complete than Amoroso. Thuram was often caught in the best 10 French player ever. Amoroso would not even make TOP25 best French 3- GK: Like it or not , your "clown" Barthez was the BEST French GK ever from clubs to country rating.: Best GK at WC98 with 10 clean sheet (tied record) 2x best UEFA clubs best GK Legion D'honneur 4- CB: Leblanc (skillful) got my vote over Desailly (hard worker) 5- DM: (Again very close call) But Des Champs was over Vieira ========================================================== I would play between 4 2 3 1 transitional to 4 3 3 depends the situation ( Platini and Zidane can swap position/role in each case)
My team would be: -------------------- Darui Thuram ----- Blanc ----- Tresor ----- Amoros ---------------------- Vieira ----- Kopa ----- Zidane ----- Platini ---------- Fontaine ---- Henry In the GK list is close contest, but Barthez had an irregular career and his peak wasn't so outstanding to take the advantadge. So i take the usual best keeper for older. For Side backs, Thuram and Amoros (both sided) are one step over the others. The next one will be Lizarazu. For CBs is close among four men: Laurent Blanc, Tresor, Desailly and Jonquet. I choose first two since both were very technical, with skills can complement each other and also a rock as defenders (for this last reason i left desailly). In the midfield are three locked option: who peak in the playmaker role. So, to complement i picked the best hardworker, Vieira. I take Tigana out, since with three #10, there's no necessary a CM. Giresse would be a great option too. My two FWs are clearly among the best France ever produced. One as Striker and the other SS. The other contenders would be the likes of Cantona, Papin, Pires, Ben Barek, Vincent, etc.
Tigana is considerably better than Vieira though, that's a big drop in quality. Amoros/Thuram/Lizarazu is quite close, two of the three will start with the other the first option as reserve, although Abidal is also a strong candidate. Desailly and Blanc is very close too, Blanc being more technical and elegant, but Desailly won everything (CL, EC and WC). Overall my first team would be the same as yours but Tigana instead of Vieria, and I may opt for Giresse over Henry in a 4-5-1. That their all time side has at least three and possibly four starting playmakers shows the character of the French, a Parisian friend of mine once mentioned that France had always the best theory but usually not quite able to apply it successfully on the pitch, unlike the Germans.
As I remember, he was truly excellent. It's not only Wenger, but everybody thought he was the best GK in France from 1997, ahead of Lama who was the undisputable number 1 GK until that year. He was usually among the best rated keeper by newspapers (I can't find any evidence of it however because old L'Equipe and France Football ratings are not available on the net, sadly).
Are you saying here that Desailly wasn't a rock as defender? ? If you mean that he was technically limited, I agree. Your pair of forwards is interesting. The one is primarily remembered for his international career, in particular one tournament. The other is a club legend but somewhat under-delivered for national team (considering the strength of France at that time). Compare Henry for NT (a quite dominant NT) with his club-partner Bergkamp for NT, for example. Henry is arguably the best performer of the first half of the 2000s.
I can't argue with your team, except for Barthez and Tigana. Barthez was an extremely reliable keeper. People always remember his couple of blunders with MU and systematically forget on good he was at his peak. No other keeper came close to his level with France, for example. I see your point about not picking Tigana, but I simply can't pick him out : he was too good.
You can add two players certainly : Roger Marche and Maxime Bossis. My two picks would be the same as yours however : Thuram and Amoros. Piantoni also. He's always forgotten but he was truly a class player.
Anyway, here's my team (not a fantasy one : I think it would be well-balanced on the field) : ---------------Barthez---------------- -Thuram--Blanc--Desailly--Amoros- -------Tigana--------Vieira------------ ---Kopa------Platini--------Zidane-- -------------Henry-------------------- Zidane's best position is surely not on the left flank but Platini's and Henry's versality would fix that. For example, the attacking line would often be like that (Platini moving up-front and Henry playing on the left) : ---Kopa----Zidane---Henry---- ------------Platini----------------- Kopa playing on the right wing should not be a problem. He was better as a playmaker but he played on the right flank with Real Madrid with success and he would often swap position with Platini and Zidane.
I don't explained well I want to said that Blanc/Tresor being technical players, were also a very strong and tall defenders. So, in my taste, their partnership could supply the strength that Desailly would bring to the team. About Tigana, obviously he's better player overall than Vieira, but if my team would play with 1 DM/CM. I prefer someone like Vieira (who can scares opposing FWs) and there are enough creativity in midfield with the 3 best french players OAT. I agree with most of names proposed by Babaroum. Even i was thinking in your tactical scheme, but i prefered pick a goalscorer machine upfront.
I doubt whether prime Vieira ever played as sole DM. In the 'glory' 2002-2004 Arsenal years Gilberto Silva played as more restrained midfielder next to him, with Vieira as the more adventurous one. In earlier years with Grimandi, Parlour and Petit IIRC. In my recollection Vieira was of course a balanced midfielder but unlike his rival Keane he needed someone besides him to flourish I think.
Agree with you that many had "wrongly" labeled Vieira as "DM". He did have good defensive skills though. However his forte was more of a "boss in midfield" a la Tighana, Redondo, Rijakaard , Xavi Pirlo or Edgar Davids Yaya Tourre ... He always got another TRUE DM playing along side (Gilberto Silva for Arsenal, and Makelele for France) So for me Tigana + Vieira are so confused and crowded in midfield ! Like A SPain NT would play Iniesta + Xavi in MF without a Xabi, Busque or a Senna behind? UNTHINKABLE
Disagree a bit here. Rijkaard, Davids and Yaya Toure were able to play as sole DM in midfield (without partner next to them). Touré most notably did this while playing at Barcelona. Davids did this famously in the Real Madrid - Ajax game in 1995, with notable success. Rijkaard is even more obvious I feel and was also able to play as top class stopper and libero alike. Pirlo, Xavi and Redondo indeed rarely/never played as deepest midfielder without back-up or shield. I doubt about Tigana. I think he could play as lone DM but in the vintage France 1982-1986 team this DM role was fulfilled by Luis Fernandez (who played excellent at 1986WC btw). In 1982WC against Austria he replaced injured Platini (did not play) as explicit offensive option.
very true indeed. rijkaard all tiem top 5 defensive midfielder he was also so allround he could play several positions in the field. davids also. he played even a few times leftback with great results. excellent remark about fernandez you made. he was very important to : le carre magic. his presence was what made this midfield so complete. you had giresse and platini 2 wizards with the ball. tigana he did the running and defending part and fernandez the workhorse who helped conquer the ball when opponent had it. a very well balanced midfield one of the best ever.
Had a look at the line-ups of Bordeaux. At Bordeaux René Girard played as DM (with #6) and Tigana as linkman (with his trademark #14 of course, he also used this number for his club). Tigana also played at times at deeper and more advanced positions though (that is why Hidalgo used him as replacement for injured Platini in 1982). Maybe baboarum knows this but did he also play in defense? Cannot see that at the moment. For France René Girard was replaced by Fernandez (starting in 1982/1983). Before 1983 Genghini of course played. It is off subject but I would place Rijkaard not in top five but in the top three all-time among DM.
France is too strong at fullbacks (Amoros, Thuram, Lizarazu, Abidal, Evra) to not line them up. I would use this team to get the most quality: Darui Thuram, Blanc, Bossis, Amoros Tigana, Giresse, Kopa, Zidane Platini, Fontaine Fernandez did not play at WC82, Tigana was the DM: Tigana Giresse--Genghini Platini For WC86, Fernandez was DM with Tigana as CM: Fernandez-Tigana Giresse--Platini
I've never seen him play at that position. I'm not 100 % sure for his club carreer (though I would be highly surprised if he did) but I'm certain he never played in defense for France.