All-Time Brazil Squad

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Perú FC, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    Boca Juniors and River Plate have produced various legendary club sides, certainly more than any Brazilian club.
     
  2. JGGott

    JGGott Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    Did I ever question that? Stop licking Maradona's b*lls, it's embarassing.

    As a footballer, Pele is also easily the biggest icon for Brazil - but I'm talking beyond just the sport itself, I'm talking about the sportsmen's persona, character and so on - taking those other factors into account (and they count a lot when it comes to idolisation), Ayrton Senna approaches Pele.

    As for the sport itself, Pele is the greatest athlete of all time (crowned by the International Olympic Commitee and FIFA), although a very strong point could be made for Muhammad Ali. No one else can really claim that top spot of worldwide recognition in 20th century sports, not even Michael Jordan can be put alongside Pele and Muhammad Ali.

    If you wish to ignore most of the info I gave is your choice. As far as I'm concerned, you're simply saying that other people say stuff: basing yourself merely on personal opinion.

    What you don't get is that these so called "memorable" squads are only remembered inside their countries. Like I said, no Brazilian knows of any of those "legendary" Argentinian teams you mention. GUARANTEED.
    Pretty sure no one in Italy or England or Germany will know about them either (unless they are really into football history - and then they will know about both Brazilian an Argentinian clubs equally). They are legendary for their supporters and locally, in their own countries, that's all. Your attempt to give them worldwide recognition is pathetic.

    Only European clubs really managed to transcend their borders and have worldwide legendary status (except for Pele's Santos) - like I said: whether that's fair or not is a different story - but that's how it is.

    There's nothing wrong with making one competition a priority over another. It happens anywhere in the world all the time. Your point is invalid.

    You still haven't been able to give me a logical answer as to how come Brazil has far more great players than Argentina and yet Brazilian clubs were still not able to win more Libertadores trophies than the Argentinian clubs.

    I’ll give you the 2 logical options (since you failed to give me any):

    1) Contrary to Argentinian clubs, Brazilian clubs considered the Libertadores a secondary championship and really focused on winning the Brazilian championship (which is widely regarded as the most difficult national championship IN THE WORLD – given the amount of big clubs that compete to win it and the local rivalry that exists amongst them).

    2) The best Brazilian players were always spread amongst the 12 big teams (sometimes even more than in the 12), which means it has always been hard for a single club to concentrate all the talent and become the dominant force inside and outside the country (contrary to Argentina, which has significantly fewer top clubs, therefore favouring this concentration of talent).

    There is no third option (unless you want to add in referees favouring Argentinian clubs, which is also something Brazilian clubs have historically and repeatedly complained about).

    But, really, it’s either one of the two or, more likely, both of them combined .

    I’ll give you an example: Palmeiras’93-94 is widely regarded as the most powerful Brazilian team of the 90’s: Sérgio / Velloso; Mazinho, Antonio Carlos, Cléber & Roberto Carlos; César Sampaio, Daniel Frasson / Flávio Conceição, Edílson / Rivaldo & Zinho; Edmundo & Evair

    That team won 2 Brazilian championships – which, as I said, has always been regarded as the toughest national league in the world – and didn’t win the Libertadores (even though they thrashed Boca Juniors 6-1 in 1994).

    Palmeiras only went on to win the Libertadores in 1999, when it had an excellent team, but most definitely not as strong or celebrated as the 93-94 squad. Ask anybody in Brazil who was born before 1990 and they will know about Palmeiras '93-94 - that's a legendary squad. That's how it has always worked in Brazil - if winning the Libertadores is the only thing that counts to you, then you do not understand a thing about Brazilian football.

    A Libertadores title has never been determinant for a team in Brazil to be perceived as legendary. Never.

    Especially when you had the most competitive national championship in the world.

    No, they don't. Clearly, you're not a South American.
    My father was in Chile this year to watch the Copa America and everybody was against Brazil. They perceive Brazil as the local superpower, be it at football, be it politically/economically. Most definitely don't cheer for Brazil - you have no idea what you're talking about.
    I'm not saying they cheer for Argentina either - it depends a lot - I know Mexicans will support Brazil over Argentina, but it's most definitely not the rule. And I was not even talking about supporters, I was talking about buying out referees - complete different story (at which Argentina have historically always taken the lead).

    Perhaps Brazil should teach Argentina how to win some World Cups, eh? How to play with flair and become worldwide recognised as the top football nation in history. Pretty sure Argentinians would like the recognition Brazil gets. ;)

    If you're going down that path, then just go on and name Uruguay the greatest football nation in the world.
     
  3. JGGott

    JGGott Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    #303 JGGott, Dec 8, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
    And yet none of them managed to gather players great enough to form not even a single legendary Argentinian national team (which is just laughable). Another proof that Brazil had the talent, only it was spread amongst too many big clubs - and when the best from all these clubs were put together, they were far superior than what Argentina could produce.

    Oh.. and there's isn't a single Boca Juniors or River Plate club side that can approach Pele's Santos in terms of legendary worldwide recognition at club level. Just thought I'd mention it, since you're so crazy about comparing clubs (probably because you know Argentina cannot really match Brazil, as a country, when it comes to football).
     
  4. JGGott

    JGGott Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    #304 JGGott, Dec 8, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
    How is that, exactly? Brazil is the country with the biggest amount (in total numbers) of nationals playing football abroad. Pretty sure this is not a recent fact.

    In the 90's, Ronaldo, Romario, Rivaldo, Bebeto, Edmundo, Djalminha, Roberto Carlos , Rai, Cafu and so many of Brazil's top players were performing in Europe.

    Globalisation affected the whole world, most definitely not just Argentina (regardless of any Bosman ruling - that's complete BS, as far as I'm concerned). Brazilian players have been present in Europe since the 1950's and, from the 1980's (and especially 90's), all the top Brazilian players were already being heavily targeted by European markets.

    Even if Argentina had 300 million people, it would still not be able to give football the flair and beauty Brazil gave it. It’s a cultural thing, much more than a matter of population size or demographics. It’s about football DNA and identity (not to mention that when Brazil started to become a football superpower, its population was much smaller than it is now - and even so, only a few states account for the bulk of players that become professionals (no more than 4 or 5 states, out of 26).

    By your "logic", Argentina should unquestionably be ranked 4th in an all-time ranking of greatest football nations, considering Germany and Italy are far more successful at winning World Cups than Argentina.
     
  5. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    Actually, River Plate and Boca Juniors do have that worldwide recognition, mention their name to any football follower and they immediately not just recognize them but understand their significance and identity. This is a privilege than no Brazilian club really has attained.

    I also want to point out that your argument is purely cynical - you appeal to ignorance rather than making fully constructive arguments. So according to you most football fans are mere shallow fanboys following the latest fad, incapable of scratching beyond the surface while living in this Internet era. Of course, you want to depict it that way because the essence of your argument is "we are not but neither are you". You would rather torch the entire South American continent, Brazil included, and prostrate yourself to the Europeans, rather than admit that South American has some clubs that stand up to the European giants simply because Brazil does not lead this challenge. Talk about pathetic. The irony is that posters themselves from Western and Eastern Europe have made threads dedicated to the greatness of these South American clubs at various times in this forum.

    In any event, cynicism never pays off, as Brazil found out in their own home at the last World Cup.

    That's not how it is and there are numerous opinions within this forum that prove your cynical argument wrong.


    And that's your retort to my whole point about this?! First of all, let's assume it's true that Brazilian clubs often lost at the Libertadores simply because they didn't care all along, if there is nothing wrong with what approach why did they change their stance from 1992 on? Second, I gave you examples from the European clubs that you yourself have mentioned are the only ones that matter caring to win both the national league and the continental club tournaments, so how exactly is my point invalid?

    Can you give any non-Brazilian source that regards the Brazilian championship as the most difficult national championship in the world?

    There can be many factors why a strong league may not have its NT dominate international competition to the same extent. In an international tournament, improvisation goes a very long way, success in a national league is more dependent in cohesion. Too many great clubs can in fact work against the success of a NT if these rivalries seep into the squad. Also, your argument is easily disproved by a mere glance at Europe: Germany is the most successful European NT, four WCs, four times WC runner-ups, and three Euros - a record of consistent success. But the only one club of historical significance in the Bundesliga is Bayern Munich. Contrast that to the EPL, where there are three or arguably four clubs of this level: Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal and arguably Chelsea. According to your NT logic, there should be at least three more German clubs in this sphere when in fact there aren't.

    Your bold line above cannot be taken seriously unless you mean competitive irrespective of greatness, in which case who knows, the Belize league could be the most competitive national in the world.

    I don't know what exactly your Palmeiras example proves, as this situation happens anywhere in the world and throughout history. A quick example from two much greater clubs: Real Madrid's Galacticos side featured the two greatest players of their time in Ronaldo and Zidane, plus Figo who was top five/six of that generation. Yet for all that they could not win the CL, often exiting at the hands of Juventus by the quarterfinals. Instead, the 2014 team with only one player of similar stature in C Ronaldo, was able to bring in their tenth CL trophy home.

    In Argentina, River Plate just won the Libertadores and this team cannot compare to the great side of ten years ago that featured from midfield up: Mascherano, L Gonzalez, Gallardo, Ortega, Higuain, Falcao. Look at the international class of those players, especially for South America in the Bosman era, and it's astounding they could not win it.

    Actually, if someone should be teaching flair and style now that would be Spain. It took them all of five years, from 2007 to 2012, to bury "jogo bonito" as a relic. The catchphrase of this era has been "tiki taka" and with good reason and with Dunga at the helm it's safe to say we are at no risk of seeing a comeback anytime soon.

    In terms of population to success metrics, they are and this applies to both NT and clubs. In raw numbers of course they cannot compete in a sustained manner against the massively bigger superpowers but it's good that they are finally back in the forefront of international soccer.
     
  6. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    Actually, River Plate's two teams of the 40s and 50s, "La Maquina" and "La Maquinita" are names of worldwide legend and I would put them a notch above 60's Santos based on the combination of success and innovation (something that Santos did not achieve) they brought to the game.
     
  7. JGGott

    JGGott Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    #307 JGGott, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    Yes, they will have heard of them, just as they will probably have heard of most Brazilian clubs. Nothing beyond that - nothing to do with international recognition or any of the stuff you're trying to come up with. Boca Juniors and River Plate are as big in Europe as any other Brazilian club (in other words, not very big) - if you're talking locally (South America), then you can try and make a point and I would probably agree (taking into account all the reasons I gave you as to why Brazilian clubs are more legendary inside the country than abroad).

    Yes, of course most football fans are like that. Do you seriously think most football fans care to look into the history of football worldwide? Are you serious? 90% of football fans worldwide do not have a clue of whatever happened before their lifetime - they might have just heard of it, that's all.
    I'm in no way prostrating South American football to Europeans, I'm simply stating a fact, an acknowledgement of reality - which is: Europeans, in general, tend to consider S.American football inferior to European football and do not acknowledge South American football, at club level, as equal to European. I never said I agreed with it; you're the one trying to raise a banner here.

    And I appeal to ignorance, apparently...

    As yourself said: "opinions".

    I bet these "opinions" look at the amount of Libertadores titles each club has won and draw their conclusions from there (just like you do). Very trustworthy opinions they must be...

    Because of the national and international impact it had (in the view of Brazilians, in general) - probably because globalisation by that time was starting to become an unstoppable process and the clubs started to realise how they could benefit from it.

    Your point is invalid because it is not uncommon practice for clubs worldwide to focus on one competition over the other. It's that simple.

    What a fragile comparison to make. Let me quickly destroy it: Belize is not the country that produced the best football players in history.
    Brazil is - and for the most part in history, those players remained in the country, performing in the local clubs.

    Up until the 90's, where do you think the bulk of greatest Brazilian players were performing? Mars?

    You seem to think all the legendary Brazilian players simply appeared out of the blue. Every 4 years they would come down from Mars and play for Brazil at the World Cup and then they would disappear again, back to Mars, only to re-appear 4 years later. That’s pretty much what seems to be your “logic” here.

    You seriously believe that, in a century of Brazilian football, Brazil could not produce legendary teams at club level simply because they did not win many Libertadores titles? How naive is that? Has it never crossed your mind that there might be some other very relevant factors behind the fact that Brazilian clubs did not win the Libertadores (even though most of the best players in the world were all performing in the local Brazilian clubs)?
    Just because you couldn't care to understand the peculiarities of how football works in Brazil? Again, how naive (and uneducated) is that view?

    The Brazilian Championship has always been regarded as the hardest national tournament to win in the world, given the amount of competition there is and the evenness and balance that exists amongst the 12 big clubs.

    To give you an idea, Santos and Palmeiras (the 2 biggest winners) only won it 8 times each. Sao Paulo and Corinthians won it 6 times each. Flamengo won it 5 times. Cruzeiro, Vasco da Gama and Fluminense 4 times. Internacional 3 times. Gremio and Botafogo 2 times. And Atletico just once.

    In the 60's, for example, Corinthians had Rivellino, Palmeiras had Ademir da Guia, Sao Paulo had Pedro Rocha, Santos had Pele, Botafogo had Gerson and Jairzinho, Cruzeiro had Tostao and Dirceu Lopes...

    And there you have one more reason that could well explain why Brazilian clubs did not win as many Libertadores titles (and, according to you, don’t seem to have “memorable” teams that won it): they were already busy trying to win the most difficult national tournament in the world (several times more difficult than the Argentinian league, by the way).

    What other national tournament has 12 teams disputing equally, in the same conditions and with similar chances to win a title? There isn't a single one that comes even close of having such amount of competition:

    Spain has 2 clubs in the dispute. Germany has 1. Italy 3. England doesn’t have more than 4. Argentina, 3 or 4. The Brazilian championship has always been, by far, the most competitive national league in the world. (especially before the exodus of Brazilian players in the past 2 decades).

    But if you’re going to look at Libertadores to try and find legendary Brazilian squads, you’re using the wrong criterion, mate. Brazilian teams are legendary inside Brazil (where Brazilians have historically considered to be the best football in the world).

    And you come at me with your ignorance and say there are no legendary Brazilian squads? You know absolutely nothing of how Brazilian football works, @Pipiolo.

    Exactly, so how does winning the Libertadores is the sole reason that makes a squad legendary (and the reason you dismiss Brazil as having legendary clubs)? Stop contradicting yourself, you've been basing your whole argument on Libertadores titles all along. Are you trying to prove yourself wrong now?

    The Palmeiras example was exactly meant to show that.

    Palmeiras had a team that won the Libertadores in 1999 and a team that won 2 Brazilian championships in 1993-94 – I don’t know a single person who would consider Palmeiras ’99 a stronger or more legendary squad than Palmeiras ’93-94. Which, once again, shows that winning a Libertadores title has NEVER been determinant for a squad to achieve legendary status in Brazil (contrary to what you seem to claim all along).

    You want to evaluate Brazilian football at club level? You evaluate it by looking internally, at national tournaments. Otherwise, you’re never going to understand it (I know it might be difficult for a foreigner to get it, but that’s how it works here - or at least, used to work).

    As for the Bosman era, I already told you that's a complete BS point you've made. Globalisation affected the whole world, most of the best Brazilian players were already in Europe in the 90's. I gave you examples of the top names, but I don't even need to go that far, even "lesser" great Brazilian players were in Europe throughout the 90's (Juninho Paulista, Amoroso, Denilson, Jardel... the list is huge). Brazil remains the biggest exporter of football talent in the world and, certainly, in the 90's a great deal of Brazilian greats were performing abroad (I dare say most of the Brazilian players that went to the World Cups in the 90's were in Europe).

    There you go making ridiculous comparisons again. Whenever you cannot win an argument you change the subject. I won't even bother to comment on this one.

    Finally we agree.
     
  8. JGGott

    JGGott Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    Right... and you have the nerve to say I'm the one that ignores the established general opinion?

    Guaranteed that not even 1 out 10 football fans in the world will have heard of those River Plate squads you mention; whilst about 9 out of 10 will have heard of Pele and Santos in the 60's.

    You don't need to be too smart to know which one has a more legendary status worldwide.
     
  9. JGGott

    JGGott Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    @greatstriker11,

    Hey man, what did you think about Brazil having 4 players in the world FIFA 2015 team (Neymar, Dani Alves, Thiago Silva and Marcelo) ?

    It's impressive how Brazil has had top mainly defensive players rather than offensive in the last years. I think this is unprecedented in Brazilian football history...

    Also, more impressive, is that these guys still form the basis of the Brazilian defence line that got hammered against Germany at the World Cup. Clearly, it does not seem to have had such a big impact on their performance.
     
  10. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Country:
    England
    Good observation. It only validates @giles varley view that Brazil lost creativity and raw talent over the years.

    I dont see any much improvement in the coming years either. Which means it is very likely that we will see the usual suspects in the lineup for WC18 .....Gosh!

    I heard the rumours that Dani Alves is moving to China soon. Do you think that might be the end of his NT role?
     
  11. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Those 3 defensive players were not in the lineup for brazil against germany. And they are also not even starters at our current national team. Actually they are pretty hated in brazil, unpopular as can be. That includes neymar, hes also hated in brazil!

    And add neymar to the list of players who were not in the pitch vs Germany. So 4/4

    @greatstriker11 brazil has not lost its play making abilities at all... we still have top playmakers on every european league. However, we started to see some playmakers head outside of europe from our national league. That will affect how europeans view the talent from brazilian players. But if china is oaying more than europe, that will continue to be the top destination for our league players. And they will remain unknown to europe.

    Or do you think cruzeiro was just lucky to dominate the brasileirao 2 years in a row without playmakers?
     
  12. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    Marcelo played against Germany, and Dani Alves didn't only because he lost the starting spot to Maicon, he was certainly available.
     
  13. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Country:
    England
    Nice, to chat with you again after more then a year or so. You were missed. Welcome back!

    In my opinion, Brazilian league of today doesn't seem to measure on the same level as the one I saw bakc in the mid 90's. It seems to have lost its attractive force at drawing in viewers outside Brazil. At least, I noticed less of my acquaintances talking about Brazilian domestics today relative to when I used to watch ESPN latin america back in the mid 90's.

    Think it this way, in the 80's the Brazilian domestic league had many superstars dominating world stage football. In the midfield we had the likes of Zico. Many people I know back then used to watch Brazilian domestics because of Zico, Socrates and other world class players. Then in the 90's there was also superstars e.g Romario, Edmundo to name a few . All of whom were world class players drawing many fans around the world to follow the local domestics. Me myself used to watched a lot of Carioca every weekends on ESPN Latin America. This was mid 90's.

    But today, both in terms of player quality as in terms of the league itself doesn't seem to be as attractive to the broader mainstream audience. Me myself kinda lost interest to turn the channel over to Brazil...today.

    I am not saying that there are no top quality players today in Brazilian domestics, because I am sure there are some. But they dont seem to be of the same calibre as that of the 80's and 90's any more. Zico, Socrates, Romario, Edmundo, Rai, Bebeto were all players with an international pedigree so they were known worldwide and hence the non-Brazilian audience in the mainstream had enough of reasons to watch Brazilian domestics. But today? :unsure:

    In order to draw in audience and increase popularity of the league you need to have a selling card. In football its mainly down to having attractive and relevant players that have a world stage pedigree. Today, there is very few players in the Brazilian league with such a international pedigree to lure the audience in from outside Brazil.
     
  14. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Country:
    England
    on hindsight I noticed you commented that in Brazil people do tend to be hating Neymar?

    Well that is a very sad thing. But why do they hate him, when he did nothing wrong in WC14?
     
  15. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    The international pedigree comes from playing in Europe today. When before it came from playing for the National team. People know these players from the 80s because of the national team, not because of the Brazilian league.

    And yes cai cai, neymidia among many other nicknames is not very well liked in brazil.
     
  16. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Country:
    England
    But Guigs, the thing is, if the pedigree between past and present has shifted from being known for playing with NT (past) to being known for playing in Europe (today), and considering that today in general the shear numbers of Brazilian superstars relative to the past is less, it only means that there is indeed a drainage and shortage of talent in Brazil today. It is a logic and visual conclusion. Innit?:cautious:

    But why Neymar? :(

    Dude is the only Brazilian post-WC10 that has kept consistency and worthy of being called a superstar.
     
  17. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Playing in Europe means more marketability. Everton Ribeiro is not in Europe and absolutely should be in our National Team for example. Dunga didn't play in Europe for a long time and was in the NT... as the captain.

    Jealousy
     
  18. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Country:
    England
    I see and understand what you mean. Indeed, back in those days Brazilian league was as good as today's European league and there was no reason to leave. Zico played most of his better days in his homeland. So yes, I agree.

    Yet, your comment does not answer the anomaly we see today in terms of the lack of shear numbers of talent

    When the Brazilian league is world class, players stay. When the Brazilian league slacks, players leave. Or when Europe pays more they leave as well. But I saw a greater shear number of talent in the 70's 80's 90's in comparison to post 2010 onwards. How do you explain this, there ought to be a decrease in shear numbers of talent homeside, doesn't it? :unsure:
     
  19. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Top tier talent in europe are concentrated in 3-4 teams, not in every team of every league. How much are you being challenged when all of your teammates can outplay the opposition piece by piece?

    that gives you more room to showcase your skills, but not to be more challenged.
     
    greatstriker11 repped this.
  20. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    No decrease in talent, increase in european league exposure. That's the difference really. And now with players leaving to China instead of europe, people will believe even more that there is no talent.
     
  21. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    You were making exactly the same argument around 2013, we saw how the "equally talented" Brazil did at the World Cup.

    However, this new generation seems to be much better than last, with Neymar, Douglas Costa, and Coutinho reaching world class level.
     
    greatstriker11 repped this.
  22. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Country:
    England
    I respect Guigs a lot, one of my favourite posters.

    But I don't know why after the WC14 fiasco he kept this view that Brazil never suffered from a talent drainage.

    NT58, there was Pele, Didi, Mario "Lobo" Zagallo, Nilton Santos, Vava ....Garrincha! NT62, same quality of players as in NT58, and a scintillating Garrincha worthy of one of the best Golden Balls of all times. NT70...do we need an induction? Considered by most the best football team of all times. Then we had 70's and 80's with the likes of Rivelinho, Zico, Socrates, Junior, Muller, Careca, all of which known for Jogo Bonito era. Then we had from NT94 to NT06 , a second golden era. With the likes of Romario, R9, Rivaldo, Bebeto, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Aldair, Dunga, Kaka, and a few other world class players. Albeit NT06 (looking good on paper) turned out to be nothing short of a joke .

    But then an anomaly in the history pages of Selecao. All of a sudden NT10/NT14 .......apart from Neymar, all other player were inconsistent from group till KO's. All of them.
     
  23. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Country:
    England
    I understand the current talents are going after money in lesser known leagues in China and US etc.

    But those who went to Europe are not at the same level as their historical past countrymen

    Apart from Neymar, I dont see any of the current Brazilians in Europe today (or in the last 10 years) match their historical past countrymen in terms of raw talent.
     
  24. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Actually they are better.... 4/11 of the Fifa Pro Starters... show me another time that has happened in the history of Brazilian footballers. Where they had 4 players considered the best at their positions? You would be hard pressed to find it.

    If Dani Alves won 1 World Cup he would be considered on of the best RB in brazilian footballing history.

    Just think about that for a second.
     
  25. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Country:
    England
    NT70 reflected the raw talent that Brazil had to offer in the 70's

    NT82 reflected the raw talent that Brazil had to offer in the 80's

    NT98 reflected the raw talent that Brazil had to offer in the 90's

    NT02 reflected the raw talent that Brazil had to offer in the 2000's

    Out of these, NT82 and NT98 did not win the world cup. So you do not need to win the WC in order to make a lasting memory on the audience.

    In fact, NT14 reached farther then NT82 in the WC. Yet, we all agree that the raw talent gap between them two teams is humongous.

    Now tell me, bar Neymar, do you see NT10 and NT14 match the raw talent of the aforementioned generations?
     

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