It's easy to isolate Vinicius when as an opponent you know that you'll close down the space around him and he can't find anybody or have to take a bad shot. He was beating players on the run all night, but an issue with this team is that most players expect the ball on their foot and will not show much effort otherwise. They move where they want the ball, and expect it there vs moving where they can best receive it from the player having it at the moment. If you can find the second Alaves goal vs Celta from today, you'll see what I mean. Lucas Perez cuts from the outside all the way in front of the defender. Meanwhile we play the ball to Vinicius or whoever is playing on the right, who is then tasked with the job of finding a way of playing a perfect pass or a shot in an otherwise mostly stationary attack.
I think the criticism is justified and he doesn’t need to be shielded from it, very poor decision making, finishing and passing over the last few months. He might not be the finished article yet, but at the same time he’s not a youth player either.
He does have glaring strengths though and it's worrying that instead of using them right now, we're waiting for him to beat his man (which he does well now), then also play the final ball, or score the goal by himself. Until his final ball has improved, use him as a trouble maker that allows the fullback to create better opportunities, but in yesterday's case, the fullback is closer to retirement than his peak. If we're waiting until he's perfect in every way to get something out of him, maybe young players aren't our thing.
Him improving his passing or finishing is solution for just one part of the problem. The other being as you have said, his team mates are brutally stationary. You can have the most epic final ball of all time, and it does you exactly zero good if your team mates don`t know how to exploit space and come into positions which allow such pass to take place. For example we have James in our team, who is absolutely stellar in final pass / through ball department, and yet he is highly under used. Because our positioning and movement sucks. Honestly, at this point i am thinking that Zidane should just copy Mou from years back. Put Hazard on the left with Bale on the right. Benzema centrally. Behind James, and Casemiro + Valverde as double pivot.
This is the worst issue with virtually every forward on this team. Besides Benzema, nobody really knows how to find open space to receive the ball or create proper passing channels down the center of the pitch. We thought Jovic would be the answer but we were soooooo so so wrong. Vini has been given all the time and patience to make his mark but he's being exposed for his inability to score. It doesn't help that he's surrounded by players who can't get open.
We need to go back to counterattacking football. The best stretch of games this season (Sevilla-Atleti) showed us that this team has the components to play that style better than one which forces it to be creative.
It's the same player that scored this one less than a month ago: At this moment Vinicius has 1 League goal in 360 League minutes, while Joao Felix has 2 goals in 660 as a starter in every Atleti match he's played this season so far, almost twice as much playing time. They are both 19, yet Felix is being treated as a child, and Vinicius already getting ridiculed and called a bust.
If Felix is a flop and his fanbase does not recognize it, but we realize that Vinicius is a flop by now, that's a bad thing according to you? Vinicius does not grasp basic fundamentals of the game. The issue is beyond not having teammates in position. He often refuses to make the pass and shoot absurdly. This is a technical problem. He can't make a pass to save his life.
Flop or not, he might change with more playing time, he doesn't get that here, so he's not getting developed here as well. Let's loan him for a couple of years, I'm sure plenty of teams will jump on that offer.
I am certainly not calling him a bust, I like Vin, and I hope he does develop and come good but he needs time, that shot took a massive deflection and ended up in the net, although I agree our attackers (other than Gareth) always seem to want the ball to feet Vin just doesn’t look like he knows what he is doing once he gets past his man, he seems to mostly just hit and hope in the end after being caught in two or three minds as to what to do, the attack is static yes but his decision making is poor, one does not negate the other, hopefully the more experience he gains the clearer his thoughts will be when he has the ball as to what to do with it next.
As far as I remember Cristiano Ronaldo was a pimple faced teenager with blond highlights and way too many step overs at some point. Players need time to develop, and development isn't a spaghetti sauce that simmers and is ready at some point. You'll have better and worse periods. If 8 months is all the time we can give a player until he becomes great, then this club will be paying 100 mil. for players with a few months on their contract for years to come.
Cristiano was clearly special and a utility player in his early years. Vinicius tanks our attacks - he's like a thoroughly dysfunctional Robinho with less skill to boot. He's not going to amount to anything, sadly. And to answer your point, yes, that is what it takes to be the best. That's what we've always done. That's what Barca has been doing over the last 4 transfer windows.
We don't use Vinicius as a utility player though. We use every player as a "go out and get them" player. By now, even Lucas Vazquez, much to the amusement of the forum. There wasn't one attack where you could say "yeah, we worked on that one" against Mallorca. It's all down to players making something happen out of their own intuition, which is why we're so static: we don't move into space in plays that we practiced, players move into the space they want to be and wait there leaving the others to find out how to find them there.
What an amazing fanbase we have. We play really bad as a team, that’s true but people blaming a 19 year old guy who was clearly our best player last season (with Benz). Give the guy a break. I agree that his shot is still really bad and he should 100% pass the ball to Jovic in the first half, but calling him a flop is bullsh*t. To be clear, I’m not saying Vini will be a top 5 player in a couple of years, but we must be patient.
There is a difference between poor decision making such as not passing to Jović who could score in that position, and not being able to produce coherent pass because outlets are simply not there. You need properly timed movement and positioning for effective and creative plays. That determines if pass will be made and how effective will be.This is football fundamental. We don`t do that, hence we struggle. p.s: What makes things even worse is that a player on whom we depended upon massively for creative solutions has slowed down drastically, which even further isolates Vin on that left flank.
Stop it. Vinicius cannot play coherently because he cannot play coherently. You are so set in your fantasy that you see what you want to see.
Come on. Ronaldo was miles ahead of Vinnie when he joined Manchester. He had confidence from day one and that's next to figure like scholes and giggs to look up to and made sure he is with both his feet on the ground. Not to mention sir Alex to mentor him. Vinnie have zero confidence and no one at the club as a role model. Not to mention zidane is just not a good enough. Vinnie might be talented, but I have a feeling the pressure is too much for him, loan him and if he outgrows the team he is loaned to, just get him back. But he ain't no Ronaldo not he will ever be. Maybe a DiMaria at his best.
Vini is no flop...far from it. His potential is monstruous.. This guy blows past defenders like they are not there at times. He is a weapon that we're not using to its full potential like most of the other weapons we have. Offensively we have not been set up or coached right. This is what needs to improve more than anything. This guy is a kid...and like all kids he has tons to learn. It's absolutely ridiculous to blame him or Jovic for what is happening. They need to step up yes...but more than that, we need to figure out what the hell we want to do offensively.
Do you think that if teenage Ronaldo would have joined us now, he would have reached his full potential with us?
Firstly, Ronaldo at a comparable age was miles and miles ahead. The comparison cannot even be made, so why make it? Vinicius is more comparable to a Robinho and even then, I'm not so sure.
At 18 y/o Ronaldo was really only suited for playing as a RW. He could beat players on the dribble and with speed but his decision making and finishing were still amateur level. Almost exact like for like comparison to Vinicius.
Vinicius and the role of the ball-hog.@AS_Relano looks at the Brazilian's frustrating performance against Mallorca.#MallorcaRealmadrid https://t.co/7TdPj0ucrJ pic.twitter.com/Kmh3iIYKsO— AS USA (@English_AS) October 21, 2019
Both Vin and Rodrygo are young and I wouldn’t consider either of them flops, far far too early for that, they have a lot of growing to do, but Madrid is a hard place to actually “get” time to grow, so good luck to them, we all want to win and we want to win now!, that means we demand performances of a certain standard, and normally no one gets a pass if they are below par, no matter how young we assume ( well I for sure) they’re here actually playing for Madrid for a reason and that reason is their quality to help us win So having said all that, playing with generally the same teammates, IMO , at this moment, Rodrygo makes better decisions when he is on the ball, looks more fluid and “looks” like he has a clearer idea what he wants to do with it, from the little i’ve seen he seems to make less mistakes when passing or having to make a decision in the final third, this is as I say playing with nearly the same personnel as Vin, Now I won’t claim our attacking strategies are great, far from it, we look like powder puffs upfront who more often than not look lost as to what to do when we get near goal, but from the small sample I’ve seen, as far as these two are concerned, again IMO, I’d say it’s more about what the individuals themselves do when playing moreso than what their teammates do on the pitch .