Al Franken

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) I think you have a unique perspective on this thread and I appreciate 99.99% of your posts. I try to learn from them.

    2) They're other PhDs in political science. Not a great sample. But then...

    3) Your perspective is not universal for POC in America, either. And it's that belief - "My understanding is The True Way" - that I am so dismissive of.

    If you had said "yeah, your ivory tower perspective in purple states isn't the same as mine in red states," I'd have literally no argument against it because I believe that's true. But instead you said a bunch of PhDs are naive or lie to me to...I dunno, spare my poor sensitive feelings?
     
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  2. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    If I'd said that, I'd be ignoring the fact that we have global instant media giving us info on what's happening everywhere. Our perspectives aren't limited to our regional locations. And it's always been my position that this isn't in anyway, shape or form limited to or more prevalent in the South, so I'd never have made the purple/blue/red comparisons to begin with.

    I'm sorry if I've left you with the impression that I think I'm infallible. I do think it's important to express yourself with certainty, especially with the levels of dissent floating around here sometimes, but I've been wrong before..
     
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  3. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then I think we are largely in agreement. With different flavors of optimism.
     
  4. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, my POC friends greatly align with Auria.

    I think you mean about race, not this thread, since this thread is mostly about Franken and sexual harassment. Correct?

    And among my friends are POC in science.

    Every time I have a conversation about some social issue with a POC, I constantly considering my perspective viewing things and how the POC views things, even if we align. And I know that there are some truths which I *know*, which are not so for POC. Auria's Truth is not my Truth, even if we stand on same piece of land, and fight for the same purpose.
     
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  5. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    White guy here. I can't pretend I get what it's like to be a black man in Trump's 'Murica. Or America generally. But based upon conversations with AA friends who grew up in places like St. Louis, Memphis, Chicago, and Queens, the things you are describing definitely ring true. Legislatively, we are still far ahead of where we were pre Civil Rights reform, but Trump (and GOP predecessors) have rolled a lot of that back. Attitudinally, it's gotten really bad. My wife's family is from South Asia, and things I have seen and personally experienced since Trumpism were completely absent in our lives prior to that. Nasty comments I have received. Looks I've been given with her and my kids. We talked about this last night. Partially prompted by your comments and partially due to the NYC bombing committed by a Bangladeshi national. Whenever something happens, we find ourselves hoping it's a white guy. Or at least anyone but a South Asian.

    In her opinion, which won't complete translate to the African American experience., things are as bad for her ethnic group now as they've been since maybe 78-82, back when there were only about 200,000 South Asians living in the country and they were basically rejected by everyone. When she walks through the hospital cafeteria at lunch, there's a certain group of patient families--those of the white working class "economic anxiety" variety-that tend to trace her. She admits to me that she's waiting for the day when one of those families refuse to have their child treated by her.

    Where you and I differ is in the interpretation of this being a tectonic shift vs. a fad. It certainly isn't a fad. This was a deliberate act by Trumpists that the GOP has now accepted as their new truth. They'd very much like for it to be a tectonic shift, but that can only occur if the political/electoral calculus is sustainable. It almost definitely is not, because when one part tries to bring another group into the fold, there is almost always a countermovement the other way. It might not be zero sum, but enough people trail in the other direction to mitigate the impact such that prevailing demographic trends still dictate future outcomes. This doesn't always occur in the first cycle, because people are fairly loyal to their parties, but over a few years, enough of it does occur.

    A party can go ethno-nationalist to get working class apolitical types. But that's going to turn off other moderates. And religious Christian women who aren't hard right. And it's going to drum up non-white opposition. A party can implement progressively more restrictive voting policies designed to disenfranchise the "wrong type" of non-whites from voting, but these policies are forced to become increasingly overt to get diminishing returns over time. The more overt the policy, the more white people like my parents there are who move left. From 72 to at least 00, they were consistent GOP voters in national elections. I'm not sure about 04, but they haven't been back since then.

    There are very strong signals that it's already backfiring for 2018. It will almost definitely backfire in 2020. By 2024, the notion that it can work is completely preposterous. They'd need to move the middle thirty percent of the non-Evangelical white vote 45 points from where they are now with Trump and 30 pts from where they are with the GOP generally. Over time, Trumpism, with Trumpism completely incorporated into the GOP brand, the GOP deficit will probably even move in the wrong direction.

    All of this is small comfort for people who need help YESTERDAY. I get that. This doesn't reduce the injustices being carried out now. I don't care how many fingers they have, this Dutch Boy approach to coalition building isn't going to work.
     
  6. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    What does this even mean? I am living just fine, if anything its been better since 2016. You guys and this need to generalize everything is so toxic. If you exit the political shitmosphere you'd realize that not everything is left or right or as fugged up as politicians make it.

    As for Al Franken and the dems, if you guys sacrificed Franken in hopes you can bring out of left field trump's accusers to try to force him to resign then you guys are sadder than I thought. Weren't you guys the ones who ignored bill Clinton's accusers just last year and write it off as a political stunt?
     
  7. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Oh the irony ... Oh the lack of self awareness ... Oh dear.
     
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  8. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Sorry my everyday moves aren't dictated by political rhetoric.
     
  9. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Liking basketball doesn't make you Black
     
  10. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    Someday, when you can string together some coherent thoughts on a range of subjects...and when you can comprehend the coherent thoughts of others, I will consider your opinion of what it means to be black (if you are black).

    Until then...
     
  11. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Only your internet persona ... got it. IOW you're a normal guy moonlighting as an internet troll.
     
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  12. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I'm not black because im not self loathing, easily offended, or blindly follow democrats because of identity politics? Ok

     
  13. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    No I am just able to distinguish between political actions and real talk/emotions. Which 90% of what comes from politician's mouths is the former.
     
  14. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    lol ...
     
  15. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, they are. You're one of the most manipulated people on this forum.
     
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  16. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    No.... I voted for tax cuts and against socialism and tax increases. The rest is semantics and extras.
     
  17. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who did you vote against that supported the government owning the means of production of industrial goods?
     
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  18. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    No? What about jazz?

    161214_CBOX_la-land-jazz.jpg.CROP.promo-xlarge2.jpg
     
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  19. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    What about Super Jared? You happy he's doing his thang?
     
  20. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    White guy here married to another white woman, so that part of my life hasn't been affected. Where I see the rise of Trumpism: there are a lot of rails to trails around here for walking and bicycling. You cannot use them now without seeing that "certain group" in a clan of 4 or more ripping down these trails on their souped up quads. Doesn't matter that there are signs, etc. saying "no motorized vehicles," those rules aren't for the Tribe of Trump. Cops don't seem too concerned, and probably won't be until someone runs over a kid riding a trike or a bike with training wheels.
     
  21. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Once again, it is not about politics, it is about sexual harassment.

    You are the one bringing politics into everything while the rest of us actually talk about the difficulties of living in society as a non-White male.

    btw - would you vote for Moore if you could?
     
  22. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    Don’t worry about the ATV douches. If they’re anything like the ones around here, they don’t wear helmets. Jr will end up with a skull fracture or paralyzed soon enough and they’ll need to sell the ATVs to pay for his medical treatments. Then they’ll complain they used to get money from the ACA, but for some reason Trump took that away when he got rid of the evil Obamacare.
     
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  23. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    Don’t see why he wouldnt. I mean, Roy Moore gets his shoes shined by a black fella while that Jew guy does his law-yering and Juan Carlito works on the landscaping. Clearly Roy Moore is a completely misunderstood non-racist who only wants what’s best for your soul.
     
  24. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    #474 Cascarino's Pizzeria, Dec 12, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
    Even the well-meaning Beckys in suburbia are clueless about race. My dark-skinned, black-haired Latina wife used to take our pale skinned, light brown haired toddler to a playground in a fancy Bergen Co. suburb. Over that summer she got the usual looks. But a few actually asked if she was the nanny. Guess they couldn't comprehend that "the help" could have a kid who looked like that. I could picture the daggers flying out of her eyeballs at those poor wretches when she told me.
     
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  25. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    No, you're just a White ************************, nothing to do with anything you posted.

    Self loathing?
     
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