Pre-match: AJAX - Twente: The Johan Cruijff-schaal 30-07-2011

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by JC-14, Jul 20, 2011.

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  1. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    I'd be happy to be put up a link only it would just be in Dutch. He did quite literally say Ajax dominated the entire game and deserved to win it. He also said a lot more about Twente than about Ajax. You know, it seriously doesn't bother me, in fact I think it's a good thing from a Twente perspective. For you to deny it says a lot more about you t han about me.
     
  2. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    What's really childish is that I've proven you've lied biggest part of all your recent replies and you ignore it every time. You claimed De Boer said Ajax were the only team that attacked. He didn't, he said Ajax dominated for 90 minutes. He DID NOT say Ajax deserved to win it.

    Stop embarrassing yourself.
     
  3. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think this has become a losing battle. For myself, posts will only be on the Ajax thread and Economics of Football thread going forward. Mindless posts are getting me down (along with the heat as we are again over 32C today and in a bit of drought condition; and I'm double angry at the animals eating my peaches pears and tomatoes).
     
  4. afcajax73

    afcajax73 Member

    Feb 4, 2006
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Fair comment that.. Someone told me not long ago to just block johan, and i didnt, because i didnt feel the need to. but its getting beyond a joke now. The endless rubbish and lies and Ajax bashing is getting a joke. And if i have to hear 1 more comment about non dutch posters not understanding because theyre not in holland... im going to go mad. :mad: shame really that one person can ruin an ordinarily good and reliable forum.
     
  5. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    It's a bit rich for you to be calling me a liar seeing that I was referring to television interviews that you can't even access in your country. Wouldn't you agree.

    I've given you my opinion on Eriksen behaving like a spoilt kid after the game and disrespecting Adriaanse. Which he did in clear view of the many cameras. I've also expressed my disbelief about the difference in post-match reactions between De Boer and Adriaanse. I'm not asking you to agree with me. Calling someone a liar simply because they express views you don't agree with is ridiculous however.
     
  6. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    http://www.vi.nl/Nieuws-item/204366/De-Boer-We-hadden-van-FC-Twente-moeten-winnen.htm

    http://www.elfvoetbal.nl/nieuws/134519_alderweireld-weet-het-zeker-ajax-wordt-kampioen
     
  7. afcajax73

    afcajax73 Member

    Feb 4, 2006
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    How do you know i cant access the interview in question? over here i can pick up as many foreign (if not more) channels than english. your assumptions and comments are 9/10 times, wrong and mostly ridiculous.. i remember about a year ago you were saying i couldnt possibly comment on a game or a certain player as i didnt live in holland.. yet i had the same access to the games and papers + interet as you. i do read/speak some dutch, not enough to be fluent.. but enough to get by when i lived there for just over a year. I call you a liar because you post stupid comments which have no substance and are of your own opinion, you force "facts" about twente and against Ajax on other people when most of the time you have no proof.
     
  8. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Do me a favour and stop calling me a liar simply for expressing my opinions. Same goes for you JC14.
     
  9. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Ok so Toby says he thinks Ajax will win the title again this year...Uh huh.

    I suppose you think this defeat to Twente should completely destroy all of Ajax's confidence after a title winning season and they should all roll over and accept defeat today?
     
  10. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    One of the most painful things in sport is to lose a game you feel like you deserved to win and it's ok to feel like you deserved a win even if you lose in the end. It's so common for a coach to make a comment like that it's odd that you are so offended by it. If I didn't know you better I'd assume you don't watch a lot of post match commentary but I'm sure that's not true.
     
  11. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    On basis of the provided link this does not follow from it. If you have another link than we can look at it again. On basis of this link he only states what is true. Ajax did play good football especially the first 20 minutes when it was 11 vs 11. Ajax was the stronger party and Adriaanse has admitted that Ajax was the team that mostly dominated the game and didn't allow the execution of the game plan he had panned out for Twente. Then it is not Tobi but the timing and way the interviewer frames the question that could create the suggestion that on basis of this game Ajax will win the title. I think that Tobi just gives a normal competitive answer that I expect from every player from a top club. I read it more as a general statement from this link that is just an answer after a question about the game and what his thoughts about it were. I understand how this could be read into it, but on basis of this link, this would not have come up with me as the likely interpretation.

    Also short on other things.

    The de Boer statement is maybe more in line with what I have said before. Being Ajax and playing 45 minutes against 10 men, you have to win a game like that, let alone draw it and go for AET or penalty's. I critizized de Boer to not come up with excuses. The link you put up can also be read as Frank being startled a bit by his own first reaction of giving excuses for the loss (had to make 3 subs that were not improving his side) and in this interview he owns up to the loss, that Ajax indeed had to win against a Twente that played 45 minutes with 10 men. So maybe he is just unapologetic to himself and he gives self critique. Read the preceding sentences. He talks specifically about ''overtal situatie''.

    On Erikson. I saw Adriaanse having contact with 3 players. His players with the trophy first past him, than he walked over a small bridge and then made the contacts. The first he shook, the second was a bit more difficult, the third was Erikson, but the camera was faced on the back of Adriaanse. I haven't seen Erikson snubbing him. I only saw Adriaanse petting the stomach of Erikson. IF he snubbed, it would be disrespectful and I would tend to agree with you, but before that, can you show the video of that? I have missed it. Also if it was the case be aware of the body language of Adriaanse. He himself walks and looks pretty full of himself. After a loss that can tick off a player in combination with that animal tendency we all have:''you are in my house'' (the Arena). But as I said I would like to see the moment, to conclude on.

    Last point. I agree with BTV802 on the second yellow card and have nothing to add. How he formulates it is exactly how I see it. It was a second yellow and good he got red. We don't want raise Italians like in the WC 2006 against Australia but v Nistelrooy's like in Euro 2008:

    Go straight for minute 2:04 and look good until third replay at 2:42

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S39HObUYNRY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S39HObUYNRY[/ame]

    Good lesson for the boy and he should watch Dutch hero's instead of those divers in the serie A (or Suarez :D)
     
  12. afcajax73

    afcajax73 Member

    Feb 4, 2006
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think personally the ref got it spot on.
     
  13. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    I just don't understand why anybody has to make a point of discrediting that really really close call. It's apparently not enough to appreciate a really well fought victory for Twente, but it becomes necessary to hint at some kind pro-Ajax agenda on the referee's part to make the victory seem even bigger.
     
  14. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Your opinion can't be that the sun is a blue square.

    Again, you say "we deserved to win". Quote says "we should have won". Why don't you just stick to what's actually said instead of what you think is being said?
     
  15. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

    AFC Ajax
    Jul 11, 2006
    Vermont
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Berghuis apparently got his acting lessons from Wisgerhof.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aNeMELaPc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aNeMELaPc[/ame]
     
  16. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yeah I laughed when that happened. That was horrible. Should have been a straight red. :D
     
  17. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    It's funny how you pick that out (in my view both could be explained the same but there you go). Yet you don't want to comment on the other things I said, like my comment on De Boer's subbing which he used the 'save them for De Graafschap' excuse for.

    It's just a shame that you are incapable of actually discussing anything football related with me. I guess your priority is to try and make me look bad. I'm finding that pretty strange, I'll leave it at that.
     
  18. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You're a joke you know that? You've ignored every refutation of every piece of bullshit you've ever written here and you have the hypocracy to say I am the one incapable of a discussion. Everybody on this forum sees you for what you are by now. Really, who are you trying to kid?

    De Boer didn't use a "save them for De Graafschap" excuse. He didn't even mention de Graafschap. He said the players weren't ready for 90 minutes yet because of a short pre-season. He said he wanted to prevent them from getting injured. I will write out a transcript of the post match interview to just expose all your bullshit in one go. Give me a minute.

    Funny btw, Van der Gijp just showed Ruiz snubbing Adriaanse much worse than Eriksen. Hilarious.
     
  19. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    First question, Frank likes to talk.

    Q: Frank, was this a lesson in effectiveness?
    A: Yes, you can say that of course. They were twice in front of our goal and scored two goals. Apart from that it was also naivity I think. Especially the first goal... how Nicolai was standing was not good. He got tricked by a very simple pass. That's just a learning process. And I've told him that. The important thing is that you don't do that next time. When Cornellise comes up, and Ebecilio coaches very well that you have to mark the upcoming man, yet you stand still and 1 simple pass beats 2 people. That's deadly on this level. And then you see a silly penalty coming from that too... And the second goal too, it happens in front of my nose, they (twente) couldn't get out of it. And we give them a meter free space for a second and they can get out of very simple. Okay, Ruiz' finish was fantastic. But they should have never been allowed to go from left to right in the first place. Those are details. We have to get rid of those.
     
  20. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    The fierceness of your reaction to me is now getting plain weird JC14 and to be honest it's freaking me out a bit seeing that this isn't World Rivalries. 'Showing me for the person that I am' - neither you or anyone else here even knows me. This is not World Rivalries, this is the Dutch football board. Slag Twente off all you like. Your personal quest to slag me off and discredit me has no place in a football discussion as far as I'm concerned but hey, I'm no mod.

    By the way, I'll help you, seeing that you missed out on that Taco van de Velde comment about Ajax being the great winner of the Johan Cruyff schaal. Twente won with ten men in Amsterdam but hey, it's still a victory for Ajax in the weird world of Dutch football.

    As I've told you before, long may the situation last. The total lack of grip on reality in Amsterdam is an immediate cause of the fact that Twente has won four out of the five last prizes won in Dutch football, despite having significantly less to spend. I guess this is what at least partly inspires the fierceness of your reactions to me. Sheer frustration with your own team. Fine. Take it out on Twente please, not on me personally.
     
  21. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    By the way, I forgot to add, this is my last post on the Dutch board,with the exception of the Twente thread. Clearly I aggravate people a lot and I don't want to spoil things for the others. Seeing that this is after what, seven years of me posting on the Dutch board, you and your mates JC14 can consider this a victory for Ajax dominance. As for the Dutch board mods, congrats, you've turned this into a self-congratulatory premiership club board where there's no place for real discussion.

    Posters who want to discuss actual Twente related football matters with me on the Twente thread, please feel free to, but I'm not going to respond to anything else.
     
  22. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Q: It frustrates you?
    A: Well it's just a damn shame. You've have dominated for 90 minutes, and at times we played good. Only on the end against 10 men I think we should have been more patient, and have them (twente) run even more. And not just throwing in crosses, you should try to get through it in a footballing manner. Cause you see with every cross, there are a couple of giants there and they head the ball away. I don't think we did that right. And that's a lesson for next time.

    Q: You just said "twence came in front of the goal twice and scored two goals". On the other side, you've come in front of goals so many times. You should have scored more.
    A: Yes, definitely. I remember Christian in the first half made a good "action" through the inside, he all the time he needed to shoot but shoot it miles over the goal from 11 meter. That should be a goal 100%. The most important thing, I said this before the game, if you were to lose this game, it counts how you lose it. And of course, against 10 men is very sour. But we take it with us to next week. And I've seen very good things. We've dominated for 90 minutes. Against Twente. A good, normally speaking, Twente. I feel that we were better than Twente today. Only they were more effective. But again, I've seen positive things. And we take those with us to next weeks Sunday.

    Q: The play is encouraging and gives perspective. Is it more difficult to score? Is that an issue of concern?
    A: Nah, you might think "hey, why does he substitute Sightorsson when you're playing against 10 men, he's a headstrong striker". The man is just 3 weeks in training. Why do I sub Van der Wiel, who has good actions on the outside? Well because he's also just 3 weeks in training. Nicolai Boilesen, exactly the same. So I have chosen for the person, and at this moment not for the team interest cause in the end I will need them badly and if they get overtrained now then I might miss them 2 or 3 weeks or games in the league. And that's the last thing I want.

    Q: That says something about how badly you wanted to win today. Otherwise you wouldn't have subbed out Sightorsson.
    A: If they were part of the group from the start of the season they would have played 90 minutes. But because of circumstance, because of the youth world cup in Denmark, they have only been in training for 3 weeks. And if you start to push them too much, you will cut yourself in the fingers.
     
  23. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The difference is essential:

    "Deserved to win" means it wasn't your fault.
    "Should have won" means it was your fault.
     
  24. DSC05

    DSC05 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    Detroit, MI
    Club:
    --other--
    I admit me not being able to speak or read Dutch is a problem, but it seems more often than not, a claim is made, it's refuted, then things get nasty. Is this the US Government or a civil message board? I'm not dumb nor am I blind and I know what the problems are, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to fix them. If anyone has reasonable suggestions please feel free to PM me. For now I think we've beat this topic to death.
     

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