Aggression in Soccer

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by Let's go, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. Let's go

    Let's go New Member

    Feb 1, 2014
    My ds is turning 9 in November and technically he is pretty strong for his age but he lacks aggression. He has moments where he is very tenacious and other times he backs off when he should be attacking. Most, if not all, of the boys are very aggressive so in this respect my son is an outlier. He is great at passing, maintaining possession, foot skills, etc.

    On top of it, he has a Nov 30th bday and he is several months younger than the player that is closest in age to him.

    He currently plays club soccer that is professionally coached and prides itself on development. But my concern is that he will always be relegated to the B team for this reason though his technical skills are in line with - and often better than - the A team.

    Any thoughts? Do I just need to have patience? How can I help him? He truly loves the game and spends countless hours watching, playing and talking soccer. But I wonder if soccer is the right sport for him.
     
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  2. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Patience... Let it happen. If he has a passion, he will come to understand that if he wants to play he'll have to go harder and faster to the ball.

    If he's not in 3v3 I recommend that as well. It's close in and very foot technical - fast as well.

    Odd enough I was just speaking about the movement a few years back for Winter soccer to move to more natural fields - less walls. I personally have always disgreed with that because the shorter field and walls equate to a faster and more aggressive play which forces players to participate and pick up on those skills that drive them to the ball harder and faster - something they do not get to such an extent on a larger outdoor field.

    Good luck - and remember, let it happen - sit back and enjoy the time because you will never get it back.

    Also check out ilovetowatchyouplay.com It's a fantastic site for parents and very helpful for parents like you and me who have players that are slower to develop in certain areas.

    It will come - mine is 10 and she's a beast indoor but gets nervous outdoors. Very technical like your son though.

    Again - good luck and have fun!
     
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  3. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Yes, patience is the key…

    With no scientific backing and limited experience, so I might be completely taking out my ass, but imo “aggressiveness” at a young age is overrated and a poor indicator of long-term success…commitment, passion, love of the game, foot skills are all far more important to see at that age…competitive aggressiveness will come naturally with time as he grows older and become more and more confident in his abilities…
     
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  4. mkg3

    mkg3 New Member

    Aug 23, 2016
    Oh my......The only thing I can say is WTF, just chill and enjoy watching your kid play.

    He is 8 and your worried what is the right sports for him. He should be playing all kinds of sports and you should let him pick the sport of choice, if that day happens in few years. Puberty will take care lots of your concerns anyway. Many kids stop playing any sports around that time too - keep that in mind.

    As for soccer in particular, the only thing that will keep him on the B team is his skills and desire to compete. November DOB is not an issue (my older kid is November also and he is playing two years up). Same thing can be said about any sports.

    My kids picked soccer at 12 and 11, respectively, on their own. They both played multiple sports and told me that they wanted to focus on soccer. I am a firm believer that if you let your kid pick his own sport of choice, the natural selection will take care of itself. In other words, your kid will pick the sport most likely he will to succeed at.

    I agree with mwulf67 that aggressiveness does not equal success. Don't confuse willingness to compete with aggressiveness.
     
  5. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I can empathize. I always seem to be coaching the kids who tend toward the timid side, and there's only so much I'm willing to do as a coach at the lower age groups.

    Other coaches aren't the same way, of course. I remember a U9 rec coach fond of yelling, "Don't let him do that to you!"

    The cure is probably worse than the disease.
     
  6. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I strongly disagree with you here--while some kids do great playing up, others very much tend to reflect the age different quite noticeably. My own experience was that, all other things being equal (i.e., genetics--boys with tall athletic fathers will tend to have an edge at a young age over those whose fathers are slighter, shorter, or were late developers when they were young), the kids at the tail end of the age group will struggle a bit in the younger years. (The longer they stick it out, the more this development gap will narrow and ultimately disappear).

    Strongly agree with you here--my son pretty much always focused on soccer which was probably not the right thing to do, but it was about the age of 12 or so where it became obvious that we'd luckily stumbled into/guessed the right sport for him. At that point, it became his choice not his parents.

    FWIW, he'd struggled quite a bit up to that point, and he was still one of the kids who got overlooked for a bit after that. But from that point on, he was playing soccer because he knew he really wanted to play it, not because my wife and I signed him up for it.

    I totally agree--I'd also say that a competitive drive sometimes shows up later for some kids compared to his or her peers.
     
  7. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let me just say--several years ago, my son was an earlier version of your son. Or your son is the latest version of my son. Or something.

    My son does NOT have an alpha-male personality. He's a quiet, thoughtful kid. Not in the stereotypical sensitive-poet type (that would be me, minus any talent for poetry), but he's never been the boisterous sort. As an only child, he never really un-learned his natural tendencies, either.

    As a young player, he was very much like your son--very good technically, and always strove to play "good" soccer. Great dribbler, always looked for the smart pass. For this reason, from a young age he was always given a shot on the "A" team of various clubs.

    But unlike most of the other kids on those squads, he wasn't prone to battling hard to win 50/50 balls, pushing himself to win challenges, throwing himself into tackles, etc. He wasn't very aggressive--nor, for that matter, was he very competitive. For that reason, he usually found himself getting demoted to either the bench or the "B" squad after a promising start/tryout period.

    I remember a Columbus Day tournament once--it was the A squad of his second club, and it clear he was already on the bubble with the coach. This team was slated to win lots of things--State Cup, regional tournaments, etc. Sure they were only U-12 but development be damned, this squad was being groomed to be one of the showcase teams for the club. And my son was not getting it done in the eyes of the coach. So anyway, in a knockout round game, he got put in as a sub in the first half as an outside mid. (It was only October of his first season, and he was already sub-not-starter material as far as the coach was concerned). He hadn't been on the field very long, when an opposing player came at him with the ball in a 1-on-1 situation,and got around him.

    My son just let him go. The outside back had to leave his mark, and scramble to make the tackle to prevent the cross from coming in. My son had watched him go by, didn't chase all that hard after him, didn't grab a handful of jersey or make any real effort to at least throw the guy off--nothing to demonstrate a competitive drive. And I knew right then that he was finished at that club. And I was right--we finished the year, but his time on the field continued to drop the rest of the Fall; in the Spring, he barely got off the bench, not at all in some games. That was a really, really hard season for him and for my wife and I. We would have left prior to the Spring, but the "B" team didn't have any open slots, and neither did his first club.

    Going back to that tournament game--I didn't know what to tell him at the time when he (rather nervously) asked me how I thought he did (he obviously knew on some level)--I couldn't think of way to explain to him that sometimes, a little "cheating" or dirty play is exactly what the coach wanted. My son, at age 11, wasn't particularly aggressive (his challenge on that opposing player was far too soft) nor competitive (once he got beat, he pretty much left it to his team mate to clean up his mess). I really felt like he just "didn't have it" and despite being a huge soccer fan myself and knowing that he really liked playing, thought it might be time to pull the plug.

    OK, so here's PART TWO: "The Silver Lining"

    My wife and I recognized that that club had become a dead end; he was offered a spot back on the B team after that horrible Spring of benchwarming (and we really liked the B-team coach) but we moved on. He made it clear that he still liked playing soccer, and for all the mistakes I've made as a soccer dad, I did the right thing there and decided to take him to another club and let him continue playing. Because, again, he really loved playing. He played FIFA with friends. He wasn't as aggressive or competitive as his previous coaches would have liked, nor as much as most of his teammates on those "A" squads were, but he had the skills and the love of the game so we stuck it out.

    And you know what? In the end, once he entered puberty, he started to figure it out. He began to recognize that he needed to not just play "good soccer" but also to help his team win games in order to be effective. He started looking past being good with the ball and trying to make good passes and began looking at the big picture--particularly the defensive side of the game. He also started seeing himself through others eyes, and began playing "harder" in order to prove himself.

    What happened, ultimately, is that he stuck with soccer because he enjoyed it; and he belatedly began to push himself to be more aggressive and competitive because he knew he was pretty good and wanted to prove it to other people. That aggression didn't come naturally to him--it came, in adolescence, along with an awareness of what was going on around him. That competitiveness didn't come naturally either--it came as he cared more about impacting the game instead of merely having fun.

    And in case you're wondering--he plays college soccer now, and he's doing great. I'm really, really glad I didn't discourage him back in the day just because he wasn't hell-bent on winning the ball as a pre-teen.

    Some kids are born with the instinct to be aggressive and competitive in sports from the get-go. Mine wasn't. Sounds like yours wasn't either. But it also sounds like he has real talent and ability at a sport he likes to play. Nurture that. Don't stress over it. If your son is enjoying the sport, and likes playing it, then it is definitely the right sport for him. Be patient, be supportive, be proud, and realize that some day soon he'll be an adolescent and he'll decide if soccer is the right sport for him going forward.

    And good luck--as you can see, I've truly "been there".
     
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  8. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Living through this right now with my 13 year old son….our stories are different, but the theme is definitely the same…

    Considering how lacking it was before, the maturity, leadership and competitive aggressiveness and drive my son is starting to show in just the last year is remarkable…2 years ago I was worried he would never make it to high school ball (big in our area); he just didn’t seem to care enough….now he’s determined to make varsity as a freshman….and working hard, on an off the field, to make it happen…
     
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  9. Let's go

    Let's go New Member

    Feb 1, 2014
    Thank you so much for all of the responses. They've provided me a measure of perspective that I was lacking. My son really loves the game and loves to play. He is exposed to many other sports but soccer is his love.

    I have to admit that it bothers me a lot that coaches seem to be so focused on aggression at this age - U10 - and even younger. So that kid that plays all over the field, the kid who dribbles, dribbles, dribbles and shoots on goal, the kid who crowds his teammate demanding the ball seem to get more respect than a kid who makes thoughtful and accurate passes, the kid who maintains his position and the kid who can actual receive the ball correctly with his outside foot.

    The A team gets more and better training opportunities than the B team. They get to also train with the U11 squad and the B team gets nothing in addition. The A team gets additional friendlies and some small sided games and the B team gets nothing. In theory these additional opportunities should be to improve their players but the B team doesn't get the same opportunities.
     
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  10. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Glad to hear it! Having been through it, I know the value of finding other perspectives; I also recognize the need to vent now and again. We're all just parents trying to do the best for our kids in a system that all too often gets important, fundamental things dead wrong.

    That love of the game will serve him well. In the long run, it's kids like yours who stick with it and become good, well-rounded players at the HS age and beyond.

    Been there, done that--it's frustrating as hell to watch. Particularly when you know good and well that it's not only unfair to other kids it's not even good soccer. That's what pickup and street soccer is for.

    Too many youth coaches are looking for kids who can help them win games, not become well-rounded players a few years down the road.

    That's a real good sign that the club isn't about development. At my son's second club, the B team was pretty just used for scrimmage fodder for the A team.

    Keep in mind, that at this age it's most important for your son to enjoy the game and get time on the ball--and if that means spending a year or two at a "lesser" club that might be the smart long-term option. "Fighting for playing time" at such a young age is stupid, IMHO.
     
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  11. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    Do the coaches know how much your son loves the game? As a parent, you see all the stuff off the field like him practicing on his own and watching and talking about soccer that informs your perspective. This is likely invisible to the coaches, who may mistake a lack of aggression or competitiveness during games and practices for apathy. I don't know if it would make a difference, but it may be worth talking to them to see if this info changes their view.
     
  12. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My experience has been that it likely won't matter to the coach.
     
  13. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006
    It sounds like you feel you are at the wrong place with coaches you do not trust. I would trust your instincts and if possible look for another opportunity. If you cannot move and do not have other opps I would ask is your child affected that much or mainly you ? Does he notice and care about the A\B team bs ?

    FWIW my son plays up on a 2006 that will compete for the #1 US ranking , and I could have written your paragraph above. Ditto for the US trials he attended recently... I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse.

    I would also say this if only to be thorough. We have known tons of kids that love soccer, can do tricks, are graceful, athletic etc. Everything anyone would want to say..Guys tour and support themselves entertaining with tricks etc.

    Playing and executing the game at game speed\competitiveness is its own beast.

    Do I think you know anything permanent about this at 9, of course not but I do see value in mentioning.
     
  14. ajaxsoccer02

    ajaxsoccer02 New Member

    Jun 27, 2016
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    The key is support your kid and let him develop on his own time frame. My kid was the same at the U10-U13 age and it use to drive me crazy. Looking back, I am lucky that with my constant pressure and craziness he did not quit altogether. Went out and provided him with extra soccer training outside the club. He was always a B team player and those coaches outside the club saw his skills and they encourage and nurtured. Once he matured, he has not look back and have been on some high caliber teams.
     
  15. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I did not come in on this thread the thread starter did you say how old your son is or did I miss it altogether.

    On aggressiveness I think when a kid does not know the proper way to tackle and win the ball from the opponent he can get hurt doing it not to mention hurt an opponent thus become less aggressive.

    You want them to play fair and you definately don't want them to hurt anyone. That is why it is very important to teach them the right way to tackle and win the ball from the opponent.

    So it is very important to spend some time on tackling and defense rather then think it is a waste of your coaching time, and just concentration on attacking skills.

    I think the right time to teach it is when you first teach them how to push pass. The tackling position is very similar to the foot position on the push pass.

    Come to tackle at the wrong angle and at the wrong time and the wrong form can get the tackler hurt or you can hurt the player.
     
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  16. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #16 bigredfutbol, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
    Those are good points but I don't think the question was really about tackling, defending, or physical play so much as attitude, competitiveness, etc.

    BUT, maybe those things are more closely related than I think.
     
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  17. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I think it's a bit of both. Players (and parents) often don't understand what's legal and what's proper technique. I've seen parents who think shielding is a foul. (Granted, I've also seen refs who think a forearm shiver to the back of the head is perfectly legal. Or a slide tackle that takes out two legs and no ball.)

    Funny story from this season: A team with which I'm involved was getting routed and had pretty much stopped trying to come back. Late in the game, one of their players was hurt on the aforementioned forearm shiver to the back of the head. Then they played well the last five minutes. We didn't turn into old-school gridiron coaches, but we did gently encourage them not to wait until a teammate is hurt to start contesting for the ball!
     
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  18. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I edited my post just as you were responding to it, because I suspect you and @nicklaino are probably right.
     
  19. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    My suggestion on aggression is to try walled indoor soccer. I find that many kids under the age of 11 are put-off by the constant ebbs and flows of an outdoor soccer game. They lose focus when the ball goes out of bounds and have a hard time flipping the focus switch on and off repeatedly as the ball yo-yo's in and out of bounds. Keeping focused is much easier in walled-indoor soccer, where the ball (essentially) never goes out of bounds. Most of the "unfocused" and "non-aggressive" players I've coached are far more focused and aggressive in walled indoor soccer. Try it with your player and, if you see a change in behavior, then you will have learned the degree to which the ball going in and out of bounds is affecting your player's focus and aggression.
     
  20. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006
    I'd say futsal is closer to the point.

    Serious development occurs because all of your regular soccer warts are magnified, closing the ball and getting close to the opponent is so important. Focus, awareness, and compete all heightened.

    My issue with indoor soccer is, dangerous cheap fouls and reliance on using the boards.

    But maybe at the younger ages you have a point.
     
  21. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    Putting aside whether you think playing futsal is better developmentally (which I take some issue with, but will leave out of this conversation), my point is that, at the younger ages, I have found that the ball constantly going in and out of bounds makes it hard for certain kids to stay focused, engaged and aggressive. Removing the ability of the ball to go out of bounds helps to assess the degree to which this is affecting the player.

    Case in point, my eldest son often lost focus when playing outdoors up until about age 10. I had a really hard time figuring out what the issue was and I noted that he was far more effective indoors and seemed to be 100% engaged at all times when playing walled-indoor soccer. At first I thought maybe he just liked indoor soccer better, but it started to dawn on me that it was the stoppages in play that killed his focus outdoors. He would be focused at times outdoors, but then you could see his brain just turn off and he would start looking at his shadow or watching the game being played on an adjoining field. I finally put 2-and-2 together and realized the degree to which the ball going out of bounds was hampering his ability to focus.

    So, as an experiment, try walled-indoor soccer with an unfocused player and see if he's better able to maintain his focus. If so, it may well be that the inability to focus is being caused by constant stoppages in play outdoors.
     
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  22. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006
    No issues at all with whatever works.

    More wanted to put futsal out there as an option.
     
  23. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    What does futsal do to improve focus and/or aggression that you don't get from other forms of soccer? Is your point simply that focus and aggression are required in order to find success in futsal? If so, I would say that's equally true outdoors.
     
  24. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006

    Well more that I think indoor soccer (walled) has long term downside when employing walls. Short term kids have fun yes, I have fun, but bad habits occur and I grew to dislike it fast.

    Futsal IMO has serious developmental upside and it does not have the visible obvious downside that of walled soccer.

    To the point of high intensity focus and you cannot turn off, I have found kids challenged to remain tuned in have responded to futsals tempo.

    Soccer can be high intensity but there is more fluctuation in action. Futsal done right (important)you should be always moving for someone, there are only 4 players so the call to action is constant on offense and defense.
     
  25. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    This is not the place for the wall-ball vs. futsal debate, but I will point out that your comparison assumes that futsal is "done right" and appears to assume that wall-ball is not "done right," which puts a thumb on the scale. When I coach teams in walled indoor soccer, they play great soccer without over reliance on the walls and there is no "long-term downside" or "bad habits." My players may occasionally complete a wall pass to themselves using the walls, but I find that to actually help them understand the value of a wall pass using a teammate and I do not allow them to overly rely on it. I also do not allow any passes to teammates (including crosses) off the walls and do not allow them to intentionally miss shots to exploit the rebound. With those rules in place, I find wall-ball to be a great developmental tool and the kids universally love it. That last part absolutely cannot be said about futsal.
     
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