This is a tough post to write…I am self-conscious enough to understand this might come off as nothing more than the sour grapes of a delusional parent… My son is an ’03 (U15). He been playing at high level, at least relatively by local standards, for the last few years now. I try to be as objective as possible, I know he is no world beater, but by local standards, he’s a very solid and committed player. This season my son is playing for two teams/clubs. His normal local club (going on 4 years) and a newer part-time regional club. “Part-time” in the sense that the local club is supposed to come first and that most of their tournaments will be done by April (we have already had two). However, they have been practicing 3x a week since November (whereas his local team done very little since tryouts; a handful of BS futsal games under the banner of “training”). This regional U15 team is very talented and very competitive; hands down the best team and some of the best players my son has ever played on or with. The coaching and training has be top notch…. On his local club, they have decided to do 2-year pool play this year with the 02s and the 03s at U16. My son was placed on the B team. To be honest, a bit confused and disappointed by the placement. But I am trying roll with it. On the positive side, I accept that evaluating talent can be subjective and that positional needs can affect placement decisions. On the negative side, I fear a great deal of politics and favoritism has been interjected into process as the result of this change. Favoritism not only at the individual level, but the age bracket level. There is some history and speculation that this new 2 year pool play is primarily coach driven, far more than developmental. Nor is this numbers based; we clearly have or had the numbers to field separate U15 and U16 teams this season as they have done in the past, as opposed to two U16 teams (A and B). The club clearly lost players by going this direction. Basically, (as I understand it) we have an influential coach who is tired of “losing” and wanted a bigger pool to pick a team from with the ability to drop (without necessarily cutting) weaker 02s he doesn’t want. As long as the system repeats itself next year, I keep telling myself I can live with such a setup (although it’s still kinda messed up)…and by repeats itself, I mean U16 with the pool being 03s and 04s, with my son having a fair and open opportunity to make the A team as a player from the older age group. With all humility, No way he doesn’t make the A team under that scenario. I have been told directly by both the DOC and club Administrator that is the plan…. However, the club's recent track record and rampaged speculation (from those who are both happy and unhappy with the current setup) is that it won’t happen….what some fear and others expect, is that come next year, the club moves both the 02s and 03s up to U17 and the cycle repeats itself, basically locking in this coach with this A team for the foreseeable future. I am experienced or jaded enough to believe there will be very little movement between teams should that occur…. Lot of details, baggage and speculation of what might happen…sorry, as I said, tough post to write… Bottom line: I really struggle with the juxtaposition of my son being highly regarded on a very competitive and talented regional team, yet at the same time, being rather systematically disregarded and marginalized by his local club. I just don’t know what to make of it; on one hand, I truly believe my son earned and deserves his spot on his competitive regional team, yet on the other, I struggle to understand what the hell our local team is doing or thinking… We don’t want to leave our local club (next year), but I can’t see paying for my son to play up a year, for no good reason, just for the privilege of playing on a B-team. I am doing it this year because I trust what I am being told will happen next year, which many are telling me I am a fool to believe… Just to be clear, It is not beneath my son to play on a B-team; that is not my attitude at all. I am trying to remain very positive about this season….we are going to make the most of this season; my concerns are far more about what happens next year and going forward…. I don’t know what I am looking for with this post…affirmation or a virtual slap across the face….I’ll take whatever you got….
Sounds like more play time IMO - I would be happy for just that because most clubs don't even allow it. I guess use the B team for playing a different position?
Oh, trust me, I very happy he’s playing on two teams….and I understand it’s not normal, nor likely to continue for long…something has to give…this regional team is supposed to be filling the gap between Fall and Spring, without interfering with or stealing players from the local clubs….but, well, I think the ultimate design is to do just that…everyone is playing nice for now, but I doubt it lasts…. Yeah, I have thought of that…maybe I will have a talk with the coach….
Is it just that you feel like it's personal - maybe the coach has done that since your son is playing for a different club? You've been there for awhile so I could see your side if that is the case. But again - good opportunity to use for his advantage.
Other kids are playing for both clubs…some made the local A team; some made the B team. Some local A team kids were cut from the regional team. We have kids on the regional team that barely get any playtime who are on the local A team; whereas my son starts and clocks nearly every minute of every game, yet lands on the B team… As I said earlier, I accept that evaluating talent can be subjective… So no, I don’t think its personal…I think its systematic…I think my local team has created a system that favors one age group over another in the name of winning and my fear is they will continue to do so going forward… I want to think it’s a good opportunity in the short team…but my son is entering a critical period with regard to playing in college (which I already know is long shot). The question is can I afford my local club messing around with the age groups/player pool simply to win a few trophies? Should I stay at a club that won’t field an age appropriate team for my son’s age group, expecting them to play up indefinitely, always playing second fiddle to the age group above them? If things happen the way I fear, being on the B-team for the remainder of his HS career, is in no way a good opportunity….
Hell if you can afford it - why not? How will it hurt him if it's just looked at as touches on the ball. The Regional team is priority 1 and the local is just pick up.
No offence, but at this stage, I am looking for and expecting more than just touches on the ball…as a freshmen, I am not too worried about this year, but the next couple of years are all about getting in front of college coaches and scouts… But I appreciate the positive vibe you'er sending, I know you’re not wrong….and I know I am getting way ahead of myself…a lot of things can happen between now and next Fall…. On an ironic side note, we spending almost 3x as much to be on the local “pick-up” B-team as we are for the regional college showcase team, and getting far more out of it….
I don't really have any advice or guidance; but I can sure empathize. I'll be interested to hear how things go.
I would agree with those that think these teams will continue to just move up in age group and he will be perpetually playing a year up. My fear is more around what happens a couple of years from now, when he is a senior, and the older half of the teams are gone? I can't see the club suddenly bringing in the next group down and then you are left with a mix of A and B kids that haven't played together in years. If there are others that leave the club because of their B team status in the next year or two will there be enough at his age to fill a roster his last year?
Yes, that was my concern even before the placement list came out… We have already lost (imo) quality 03 players who refused to take the B-team placement; whereas less quality 02 players (once again imo) are more than happy be on the B-team, as opposed to being cut. Nobody seems to care….the 02s will be gone….and the parents 03s who made the A team are just happy to be on the right team, right now… We have been pretty comfortable at this club for the last few years, but I can guarantee we will be trying out at a few different clubs next year, just to make sure we have options….
Hey Wulf, I'm aware of the regional team you're talking about (and curious about it, but it's a haul for us -- we'll be at the same facility they use tonight for a Super Y practice, and I'm not up to driving that multiple times a week) and glad to hear that one's working well for your son. By the same token, I'm sorry to hear the club situation isn't as great. I like Volk's suggestion about using the club team as a way to play another position, fwiw. I wouldn't mind my son doing the same with his Super Y team if that coach moved him. I'll say that my son's club team (2005s) played last fall and will play again this spring in a U15 league, and that was all but a complete waste of time last fall. It isn't exactly the same situation as yours, but most of the small handful of of teams they played in the league were either relatively low on skill but older, bigger and faster and, while not playing much soccer, beat his team by large margins, or they were low on size, speed and skill and, despite the age advantage, not able to compete with my son's team. Neither seemed terribly beneficial (or much fun for the kids). Our clubs cross paths in that same league at some ages, but I assume your son at least wouldn't be playing in that league based on where your club's older kids seem to be playing these days. So he'd at least be seeing stronger competition?
I'd ask my son what he would like to do, if i were you. if he is fine with as is, you can roll with it. But agree that regional team is priority #1 here, given he gets both playing time and experience with much more skillful teammates.
The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is what your son wants to do. Presumably he's 14 years old. Shouldn't he have a major say in what team(s) he plays for? IMO, assuming cost isn't a factor, if he wants to play for both clubs, let him. If he's not happy with the local club any more, stay with the regional or look for another club.
He is playing for both this Spring season; there was never a question of him not playing for his local club this season (sorry if I didn't communicate that well enough) …and he is very happy so far with both. For Regional team, things have been in full swing since Nov. It took a while for him warm up to his new coach and teammates, but dozens of practice sessions and 2 tournaments in, and he’s enjoying himself quite a bit… For the local team, nothing much has happened or changed much yet; thing haven't really got started yet…he knows he’s on the B-team, but I am not sure he fully understands or appreciates what that means or might mean…and by that, I mostly mean the level of play will likely be much lower than he is used to; he has guested played on lower level teams in the past, in order to help out, and he has enjoyed doing so, even though it was some pretty bad soccer…I just wonder if that kind of experience is something he will be happy with for a whole season….we shall see… Yes, he does have a say and we have respected that say for a while now. And while cost in not a factor, value maybe going forward….spending $ for quality development/exposure vs. spending that same $ for something far less, is a hard sell…
Yes, I am really liking the idea/suggestion of seeing if the coach is willing to move him around a bit…I do think it would help my son greatly to be a little more offensive minded…I am definitely going to talk to his coach…
A couple things jump out at me... I battle with the bolded all the time. "Does he really understand what this decision means?" I keep telling myself he (my DS) needs to learn on his own. We as parents can keep looking over the shoulders of our kids and saying "you need to do this, don't do that, do it this way". But is that truly helping them? I fight that battle constantly with myself, and I don't always win. If the local club is a lower level team and he's committed to that team for the spring, he'll have a season of experience before needing to commit next year. After a season, he can go to tryouts and if he finds out he made the B team, he can decide if he wants to continue next year. But don't just look at it as $ for development/exposure. Maybe he has more fun with the lower level team. Maybe he's willing to take more chances in games. Maybe he'll help teach other kids some of the skills he has. Is he playing because he enjoys it, or playing for development/exposure? In all honesty, it sounds like you're worrying about something that's months away. If he's already committed to the team for the spring season, let him play and don't worry about it until it's time for tryouts. If he gets frustrated during the season let him know you can look at other options.
Yes, fun is important and always has been for us. For us, it’s always been 75% fun, 25% HS perpetration…college was never really on the radar, with him or us… The thing is for the first time ever, he’s actually thinking about, talking about, maybe, trying, hoping to play college soccer. (and yes, I know it’s a long shot) He’s researching and requesting we send him to ID Camps(which we have or will); he's been reaching out to and contacting coaches. Now, as a Freshmen, it’s a little early for all that, but the next couple of years are critical. As I said earlier, can we really “afford”…not monetarily, but more time-wise, for his local club to be jacking around with team structures and potentially playing favorites with age groups during the next couple of years…at some point, it does have to be more than just fun, if college is a goal…and I believe that point begins next season…. Bingo! Yes, and I know that…I think I just needed to get things off my chest a little; this has been eating at me since Nov (when the placements for the local club came out)…
Administratively - are there tryouts each year? If so, in advance of paying them one dime or attending tryouts, ask specifically which age group an '03 player is trying out for. They wouldn't bait and switch you, would they?
Yes, once a year in November (after HS season ends)… They kinda did this year (bait and switch), they certainly did not make it clear nor were very forthcoming about the fact they were only fielding U16, and not U15…it wasn’t until the placements came out that it was officially announced. I think they knew they were going to it that way all along (the rumor mill certainly had it right) …unfortunately, the club/DOC is getting a reputation for being a bit shady and disingenuous… I don’t necessarily have a problem with 2-year pool play….as long as the age groups rotate through it fairly …but if the rumor mill has it right again, that won’t be happening next year… And yes, I will be more adamant about knowing what is going on next year…I will cop to be somewhat lackadaisical about it this year…
I know a club a short 90 minutes away you might look at, Wulf. I'm not suggesting your assessment of what's happening at your club is wrong at all, but I think the how-to-construct-teams problem is common at midsize clubs. My son's club has some of those problems when the DOC and coaching staff are trying to figure out how to set up rosters/teams for u14-u18 boys, as numbers drop off. Our club just doesn't have the numbers to consistently do an A and B at each age group (sometimes yes, sometimes no), particularly when you add in that some families want showcase teams in those ages and others do not -- some years setting up 18- or 20-player showcase teams means pulling players away from u16, 17 and 18 A teams, and diluting the teams they were pulled from (and the kids at the back end of the showcase roster may well have been key players on the teams they otherwise would have played for). The girls' side is another problem altogether -- numbers drop off so sharply after about u10/u11 that the club has on occasion set up teams with girls from three different birth years, with mixed results at best. I hear you on the not knowing what he's getting into with the B team. Mine has guest-played a bit with some lower-level teams (in one case a C team, and the soccer was really rough), but his club's B teams are all over the place -- one or two have enough solid players that they're not bad. Others, not so much.
Well, you’re a bit far away, but that city/club that smells like soybean farts, will probably get a visit from us… I hear what you are saying about dropping numbers, but in all honestly, I don’t see how that is in play this case. We had plenty of kids to fill U14 (03) and U15 (02) teams last year; and from the outside looking in, we had a ton of kids at tryout for those age groups this year. I don’t know the exact breakdown between 02 and 03 this year, but I don’t see how we didn’t have the numbers to field both U15(03) and U16(02) teams this year. Quite frankly, I think the team structure and even much of the A roster was predetermined before tryouts even occurred…I know that sounds like sour grapes and all conspiratorial…. Well, to be honest as well, it’s not a complete mystery…at least from the standpoint of who his teammates will be…he’s played with most for them at some point; and nor I do I think the team is totally devoid of talent. I would actually say the top half are pretty solid players (mostly 03s)….but there is clearly a drop-off with the bottom half (mostly 02s)…
Preface by saying I have limited knowledge about US soccer and recruitment in general and posting for my own education. But from what I do know, if the goal is college recruitment, would you not want to find/play for a coach that has shown success in placing players?
Yes, I would suppose so, or at least a club with a high placement rate…. In US, for boys anyway, the best track for college placement is probably the DA system (US Soccer Development Academy)….Unfortunately, I don’t we don’t live in DA market…and outside of very big metro areas, which we also don't live in, clubs and coaches are somewhat limited….it’s very much a sellers’ market, if you understand the term….for example, we have only have two options has far as local clubs go, without driving a good number of miles… Opportunities at my son’s level and location to play college soccer are available, but they are very limited…both in terms of the numbers who make it and the level of play… In our area/club, every year a handful of kids move on to play college soccer, but mostly to lower level colleges, small schools, DIII or even community colleges… Whereas I say the goal is college recruitment, I readily admit his chances are rather slim…maybe 10%??? And maybe that's being overly optimistic...
I understand your frustration. If there aren't any coaches at your son's club with connections (eg US Soccer, universities) then the fact that he is working hard and killing it on the "B" team will probably not get noticed by the right people. How far away is the closest ENCL or DA team? If it's an hour and half drive or less - I'd strongly consider it. Just don't burn bridges with your current club. He may want to return his last year of high school.