Belotti has done everything to suggest he should be recalled. Immobile has really sucked for at least a few months. It would be outrageous for Immobile to start and very puzzling for him to even be called at this point. I was thinking about it, and quite a few senior team type players might get called for the euros this summer.
I saw so many times, where footballers kiss the club coat of arm, after he scored. Also, those pathetic words, when players leave from their youth-home clubs in one of the bigger leagues. "I must go, I am so sad, this is hard for me, but I will return some day"...yes, when he achieves 35 years. Football is played because of the fans. Probably, the biggest invention. Fans always must buy the tickets, remain on crowded stand, frequently checked from stewards before, during, after the match. Players have national identity, through their families, comfortable customs: gastronomy, lifestyle...but, no one would build the railroad for the homeland... People like easier jobs. During these spring storms, no one wants to help with cleaning after the storms. Patriotism became trivial and it's connected mostly with political parties, religious figures, sportspeople, others don't have some major benefits of being patriotic, besides just words. Racists don't understand, that there is no racial purity, 100%. They don't understand haplogroups. They just embrace, what they are today. They ignore migrations of their distant and close ancestors. All these contemporary migrations happened so many times in the last 2000 years. During Roman Empire (East, West), people travelled from one part to other, trying to be prominent citizens. At that time, this was one state. Someone from Memphis (Egypt) could end in Epirus (Greece), because it was one state. Of course that we all try to find our own group of people somewhere abroad, because it's our comfort zone. If I end somewhere in Thailand, Laos, I'll probably try to find someone from Europe, better yet Southern Europe, to compare experiences of life there with him or them, how to keep the same habits and not change a lot in sense of gastronomy, hotels, tourist tours. Someone from Cameroon will seek the people who are from Cameroon, or from other states in his area. For sure, he won't spend time with me, if he has option to spend time with 2 people from Senegal, Togo. But, when someone hates someone through tv, just because he sees him on football field, this is silly. If he can play, if he provides good games, if club protects him, why would anyone be against him. Large part of Southern Europe had Arabic settlers, today their descendants hate Arabs, just because they are no longer Arabs and these ones are arriving 1000 years later. There are many cases, where people hate their roots, so they hate anyone who is coming from the spaces, where their ancestors were born. Thanks to migrations, we revealed the new world, America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada. If we all remained in the same soil for milleniums, nothing would be discovered. It's funny when residents of these New World countries hate contemporary migrants. They forget that their ancestors were migrants from different European countries. When selectors make the list of 23 players in the club, or national team, I doubt that players who are under the line of 23 players, adore those who entered among 23 players, even if they belong to the same nation. It's all the matter of personal interests. I will be among 23 players, I will play well, find better club, earn more, pressure my club chairman, so that he improves my contract, often with threats that I will leave, because I feel unhappy and I don't believe in club ambitions. So many similar diplomatic sentences, because of the material goals and ambitions. But, this is always presented as something spiritual, non-material. When players have their farewell matches, they cry because they are 35 years old and they can't earn more. Recent example, tears: Diego Godin. He must leave...I wonder where, back home to earn less or in Asia to earn more. I consider myself only as football spectator, not as some fanatical fan who would hate some other clubs. Because I understand that no one plays because of me directly.
That was an interesting read Gilberto. What is your take on the identity issues throughout the Balkans. If I were to take, for example, Serbian vs Croatian culture, heritage, etc, I don't recognize a lot of difference. On occasion possibly, but I've had friends of both nationalities swear to me that there are significant differences, while they're able to communicate in the same language to each other with relatively similar body language, tonality and gestures. I believe you're from the region, correct. Why does it seem like both groups try harder to make differences rather than embrace similarities?
In Balkans, with Turkey, it's impossible to have equal relations, someone always tries to force its domination. Personally, I don't have Slavic identity, heritage, just like many other people of Dalmatia, Herzegovina. Northern Croatia is much more Slavic. Serbia was part of two Bulgarian empires. Bulgarians were slavicised, where they abolished their Turkic origins. When someone observes from outside, there are no many differences. The problem is in religion mostly. Serbian Orthodox Chruch was formed in 1215. year. They got the Orthodoxy from Bulgarians. Majority of Serbian kings are venerated in Serbian Orthodox Church. On the other hand, Croatian kings were accepted by Pope in Vatican and they made pilgrim events in Cividale. Serbs don't accept kings venerated in Vatican, Croats don't accept kings venerated in Serbian Orthodox Church. Stefan Nemanja was baptized as Roman Catholic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Nemanja This disturbes them, because without the religion, it's impossible to have much different identity compared to Croats. Few Croatian kings, which Serbia wouldn't accept as equal to their kings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trpimir_I_of_Croatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domagoj_of_Croatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branimir_of_Croatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomislav_of_Croatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Krešimir_IV_of_Croatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_Zvonimir_of_Croatia Croats don't accept Karadordevic dynasty, because their primary ancestor had peasant origins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karađorđe Their surname was Petrovic in fact, not Karadordjevic. The member of this family made 6th January dictatorship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_January_Dictatorship Similar thing is with Bosnia and Herzegovina and Montenegro and recently Northern Macedonia. They are too similar to Croats and Serbs and Northern Macedonians similar to Bulgarians. How should coastal Roman Catholics of Montenegro identify? If Montenegro got sea exit in 19th century and embraced Roman Catholics in Montenegro. In Yugoslavia, Serbian and Croatian languages became Serbo-Croatian, or Croato-Serbian, but not before. First known Serbian dictionary was published in 1818. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srpski_rječnik First Croatian dictionaries, 16th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Croatian_dictionaries So, when someone claims in 19th century, that everything earlier was Serbian, there is a problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuk_Karadžić The main differences are the public institutions, who started something first: universities, academies of art and sciences. Zagreb University, 1669 year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Zagreb Zadar University, 1396 year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Zadar University of Belgrade, 1808. year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Belgrade So, until 1808. no one had academic education in Serbia. Serbs also have problems because they don't have renaissance in literature, so they try to take over some poets. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frano_Getaldić-Gundulić They tried to create the Serb-Catholic movement, but only in 19th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serb-Catholic_movement_in_Dubrovnik Surnames like Fabris, Budmani, Ghetaldi, Pucic (Pozza) are evidently people of Latin-Roman extraction. With them, they get Dubrovnik, with Dubrovnik, they get Dalmatia and sea exit. That's why it's impossible to share equal rights among these two groups. No one is trying to steal their Karadordevic, Karadzic dynasties. Kara means Black in Turkish language. It's all matter of influences, who has Latin, Slavic, Hungarian, Germanic influences. Someone who has Latin origins, can't consider someone from Belgrade as his own brother or related person. Same goes for other groups. Montenegro is consisted mainly of Slavic, Latin, Albanian, Vlach influence. When you have smaller geographical spaces, there are much more influences: Switzerland, Belgium, Czech, Slovakia, Slovenia (Slavic, Germanic). It would be easier to have the same influence like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, or Finland and Estonia who share similarities. Even they (DEN, SWE, NOR) had conflicts, despite having similar languages and religions. The same is with Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus. Religion divides them and Belarus, Ukraine will be always closer to Russia because of the religion. But subordinated to Russia, like people of Mongolia-Asiatic origins in Asia, who use Russian as their main language. Same goes for Tatars, non-Slavic people who use mainly Russian. Someone from Eastern Croatia, region Slavonia is much similar to someone from Serbia than someone from Dalmatia or Istria. Serbs also live in Dalmatia, Lika, Kordun, Banija for 400 years, but they refused to live in Croatia in 1991. and started the rebellion. And Yugoslavia was always turbulent for majority of groups. One of the identities created by force.
Bosnia and Herzegovina also has Roman Catholic and Serbian Orthodox religions. Bosnian Muslims want that all three religions accept Bosnian identity, while other two religions accept Bosnia and Herzegovina only as their regions. This state is "small Yugoslavia", consisted of Slavic, Latin, Vlach, maybe Turkish or people converted on Islam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina
Originally the Bosnian and Croat Ustashi were pro Nazi/fascist. The croatian flag is still the fascist flag that the Ustashi used in World War 2. the Serbs were not fascist and eventually sided with the socialists from Eastern Europe. Also there's a lot of differences in the industrial bases of the different regions. So when the region was unified as Yugoslavia ethnic tensions were at times raised b/c more productive regions were deemed to be "carrying" other regions. This particularly became an issue after the fall of the USSR (who kept it in check) b/c the Americans were able to undermine the region by fuelling this resentment which eventually broke out into severe violence, which gave Uncle Sam an excuse to unlawfully bomb the crap out of the region under the guise of humanitarian intervention. But which was just an excuse for the oligarchs to move in.
Yes, they were, but the flag with checkerboard is older than 20th century. In 1848., it's visible that red-white-blue flag. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Croatia The checkerboard was attested in 1527. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Croatia The red-white-blue is a part of pan-Slavic aims. Seems irrational. But, in Croatia, the coat of arm has higher significance, because it was forbidden during Yugoslavia. Advantage had the red star. The Serbia of Milan Nedic was pretty much connected with Nazi side. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Nedić Chetniks were not democrats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chetniks They even had Orthodox Christian saint who wasn't a democrat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolaj_Velimirović Even priest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momčilo_Đujić He was born in Dalmatia. The society in Serbia is complicated. Their clubs: Red Star and Partizan Belgrade usually had socialist origins, but in 80's they turned very nationalistic. Their uniforms are just a copy of Olympiakos and PAOK. Their cross with four letters CCCC is jusy Byzantine Empire coat of arm, only with BBBB letters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_flags_and_insignia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Serbia They consider themselves as protectors of Byzantine. Trying to get something more Hellenic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaiologos The letters CCCC are Cyrillic letters which mean SSSS in Latin script. Serbs have some inconsistent areas in history. For example, why is the name Serban common name in Romania. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Șerban What is the connection between medieval state called Rascia and their residents Rascians with Serbia and Serbs? Why would Rascians change their name in Serbian name? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rascians Nationalists of both sides, usually embrace World War II. Jasenovac and Bleiburg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleiburg_repatriations One side tries to enlarge their victims, while other tries to reduce the victims of others. These two camps were not the only ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Serbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banjica_concentration_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crveni_Krst_concentration_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sajmište_concentration_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_camps_in_the_Independent_State_of_Croatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Croatian_War_of_Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Serbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omarska_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...d_massacres_in_Yugoslavia_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Bosnian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morinj_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamula_(island) But it's important to compare industrial, institutional, educational, economic reasons for animosity between the ethnic groups. It all depends, how to verify the historic events. It's strange and often funny, when one ethnic group tries to hide their own bad parts of history. Serbs try to show Chetniks as anti-fascists, democrats...no matter how much they try, this is very hard to prove, since there are many proofs that go in the opposite way. Croats will say, that Ustase units were the reaction because of 6th January dictatorship of Serbian king Alexander and because of Serbian Punisa Racic who killed Croatian members in Yugoslav parliament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puniša_Račić If Yugoslavia was so democratic, how can Punisa make such things? The role of Black Hand is also strange. Because of them World War I started. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hand_(Serbia) The matter of territory is also important, same as sea, islands. The territory of Kingdom of Croatia - Slavonia had territories in today's Serbia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Croatia-Slavonia State in the state: Serbian Krajina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Serbian_Krajina I think that religion is not so important when they attack on each other, it's all about the territory, natural resources, raw materials, general extension, cultural treasure, money, gold, silver in houses. Both religions have: do not kill, do not steal, respect your close ones. But no one cares too much about these values. So, religion is much lower on the ladder of values in Balkan Peninsula. Religion is only a weapon where you subordinate your rival. During conflicts, religious differences seem inspiring and motivating, but the real deal is everything connected with materialism. If Serbs and Croats want to have good relations, someone must be subordinated to other, which is not possible. Montenegrins who were Orthodox Christians belonged to the Serbian Orthodox Church and they used Serbian language. Subordinated. Recently they formed Montenegro Orthodox Church and Montenegrin language. Religious independence in 1993. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegrin_Orthodox_Church Serbs also refuse that Serbs of Croatia have Croatian Orthodox Church, which existed in some periods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Orthodox_Church Roman Catholic church is universal, global. If Croats were Orthodox Christians, guess which version would be present in Croatia? Serbian. Even in Italy they tried to spread their religion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitanate_of_Zagreb_and_Ljubljana Territory Northern Croatia and Slovenia, Italy (1994–2011). Someone noticed this in Italy and removed it. Orthodox Church in Zagreb was a Catholic Church, after that it was donated to Greeks and Serbs outnumbered Greek merchants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Orthodox_Cathedral,_Zagreb This monastery doesn't look Byzantine at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krka_monastery Religion is just one nice net or large cape to bring more territory, something for the nationalistic purpose. That's why we have such mythology. https://falanga.com.au/en/russian-biologist--serbs-are-the-oldest-nation-and-descend-from-noahs-son https://zlj13051967.wordpress.com/2016/04/17/the-danube-civilization-oldest-in-the-world/ 5000 years of Serbian literature. https://www.serbia.com/5000-years-old-roots-of-literacy/ Attract historians, academic people, pay them enough and you have a bestseller. Plenty of similar materials in Youtube, other websites, where they promote Serbs as the oldest, being first. Because of them, other Balkan people started to create their myths. Alexander The Great is Slavic - Macedonian, that's why Greece blocked them for the EU and they needed to change the country name. Some Croatian historians also started to create myths, but this is all false in normal academic circles.
It's stronger for me. I like wine more or better beer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slivovitz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakia This is all similar to Italian Grappa or Medica in Istria, which is nice, it has different herbs inside. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead
Ask Gilbertsson a question and you're going to get an answer! I count 39 separate links in that post. Did you just put that together and did you already have it ready to go?
This is well known part of history, the time chronology has key points, or years since the World War I. And it's widely connected with the fact that no one ended as happy after the WWI in Balkan Peninsula, so they needed one more time to settle some things. But WWII was not enough, so they needed another attempt in early 90's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_War_of_Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War Basically, entire 20th century is closely tied with wars and in times of peace, they were setting pieces through books, websites, often filled with forgeries, provocations. It all started with Gavrilo Princip. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip The way how he ended, shows who wasn't happy. The matter of action and reaction and who harms the most. Some people fall on nationalistic sayings, they end in conflicts and lose lives. It reminds me often on childish saying: You poked me, so I must return it and poke you. Good examples are England, France, Germany, conflicts, but they managed to find the sense of rationality and cooperate with each other. Rivalry exists, but on much lower intensity. In Balkan, every statement is considered with critical tones. For example, Croats are unhappy, because Vatican won't proclaim the Archbishop of Zagreb as the saint. Another World War II figure. Serbian Orthodox Church is against him, so Vatican postponed everything. Croats don't understand that Vatican seeks ecumenism with Orthodox Churches in Eastern Europe. They think that Roman Catholics must have advantage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Stepinac
Totti fan, 01:17:26 h.... Sure, small percent of people have the ownership of important generators of the society. Unhappy rich - they don't exist until bad health arrives: pancreatic cancer, kidney issues, liver issues, etc. These and many other issues can't be solved with money. In healthy moments, poverty provides bad health - magic circle. There are many states who are not functional, or they are semi-functional. I wonder does he speaking in someones interest? Usually, all activists, protest events happen as organized projects, not by coincidence. Yugoslavia had one specific natural resource: mine Trepca. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepča_Mines Albanians wanted this mine for themselves, Serbia didn't wanted to leave that mine. Today, this mine is in hand of several foreign countries, Kosovo and Serbia are also included, but in smalle percent. Independent Kosovo? Not so sure. Many countries don't recognize Kosovo. He speaks something that I already mentioned, natural resources instead of religious reasons for wars. Of course, no one wants to invade in a country that has only sand and rocks. The difference in Europe is: - colonial countries - countries who are jealous for not being colonial. That's why Germany wanted to subordinate the Europe. Because, they needed that colonial moment, element. Croatia likes to mention their sailors in Goa, India and one church of Saint Blaise....just to get a small touch of colonial past. True, they visited Goa, but they didn't made anything important there. It was Portuguese influence. Also, they like to mention that this Native American tribe has ties with Croatia. Conclusion: Croats discovered America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatan All countries want to dominate, if they can. Spain, Portugal, France, England, Netherlands managed this and others are just jealous on them. Victims in Europe are not treated as victims in Asia, Africa, South America. This is easy to notice. Countries only think that they have alliances with other countries. Dominant countries use their less dominant countries. Yugoslavia never had any referendum, they just connected without asking people do they want to join in Yugoslavia. In democratic societies, which I appreciate more, you vote pro et contra. Yugoslavia was left only in theory as an good idea. In reality, the state could not provide equal rights for all ethnic groups. For example, Yugoslavia never had gay pride manifestation. Leftists like to say that Yugoslavia was democratic, so why didn't they had gay pride, what happened with LGBT rights in Yugoslavia? If someone was religious in public, it was much harder to work in state companies, they were all state companies. Observe all previous Yugoslavia football matches. No one made the sign of cross. I don't like religious fanatics, but if someone feels the need, consolation in religion, why not? Maybe this reason isn't important, but it's accepted widely. Yugoslavia was a multi-ethnic society, but in 1961. was a census with Yugoslav nation, for the first time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Croatia So, this was something artificially created. In 1981. 379 000 Yugoslavs in Croatian part of Yugoslavia. After that they started to vanish. Probably they were created because of personal interests, or better social position. Observe the number of Italians. In Croatian part of Yugoslavia their number reduced through decades. They could not leave all, but in 1991. they started to declare as Italians once again. It was not so popular to be Italian, Croat, German in Yugoslavia. Because of WWII. Today, they can normally say, that they are Italians. Economic success happened in Yugoslavia, but only in Slovenia and Croatia. They provided wealth for others, gratis, pro bono. Even today, companies of these two countries are spread in ex-Yugoslav republics, because there is no alternative in these states. Companies like: Podravka, Gorenje, Jamnica, Zvijezda, Kraš, Zvecevo, Kandit, Varteks, DTR, Orljava, Koncar, Volkswagen had factory in Maribor, Slovenia. People bought Golf 1 and Golf 2 in Slovenia, not in Germany. A lot of these companies were formed in Yugoslavia, but in Croatia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Croatia Slovenia has less companies, because they have less residents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_Slovenia Krka, Elan, Iskra, Tomos existed before. Yes, Yugoslavia had free education, but imagine when students of Macedonia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina want to study in Zagreb during Yugoslavia. What happens to domestic students? Universities had limits. University of Skopje lefts ignored, because they all start their education in Zagreb. Even today, Zagreb accepts Croatian students of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia because of the citizenship. Yugoslavia was a state with several frequent centres: Zagreb, Belgrade, Ljubljana, Split, Rijeka, Osijek, Maribor, with some other names of coastal Dalmatia. Other parts were mostly rural. Croats of Kosovo, who lived for centuries there almost completely left Kosovo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janjevci Observe the photo of Janjevo. It was the same in Yugoslavia.These houses have the styles of 60's, 70's. Real poverty. If someone had more money from abroad, he improved the house. These cunstruction interruptions are evident. Yugoslavia had free medical care, education, given jobs and no one could kick you, unless if you make something terrible. Technically, you could work as Homer Simpson for decades in Yugoslavia. There was no any boss who would molest you, mobbing was unknown. Ideal scenario, but for how long? Eternity sounds great, but is it possible? A lot of people got departments in flats from their companies where they worked. It was not something special, but it was for free. No bank loans. That's why, all countries of ex-Yugoslavia appreaciate private ownership. In USA, Canada, Germany, UK, France, people mostly uses rented places to stay and pay a lot. Private car is also not so often, they use public transport or taxi. They even had free summer vacations in Yugoslavia, because bigger companies had hotels on the coast. For example, if we all get free dental care. How can one state pay so many treatments? Someone needs to buy dental machines, the same goes for all diagnostics, surgery equipment. How can one country provide always something for free. Medical care, departments, vacations. Someone needs to suffer in this "ideal" society, either industry branches, or people. Who financed free vacations for people from other republics? Croatia, Slovenia and Montenegro. Guess who was most popular? Father, mother, 1-6 children. Families of Kosovo, Bosnia Herzegovina, Macedonia, Serbia had a lot of children, because they have Muslim communities. Serbia and Montenegro shared Sanjak regions, they are Muslims there. Even today, their demographics is better, they have more younger residents. The things are not free, someone always pays the bill. For example, if I have free mobile phone package...it's 120 $ per month for example, someone pays that, either company, state, or some other people. Today we notice the differences between public schools and private schools. I experienced on myself. In private education systems, I felt nice. Everything was on time, smaller groups, I could satisfy my curious needs for knowledge, I could ask if I don't understand something. In public schools, many talented children lose their interests, ambitions, they can't focus enough, there are 30-35 children in one class, with only 1 teacher. Sure, it's paid education, but you avoid potential violence, bad influences. It's the same in bad or great football clubs. How many times we hear: In this club it's all great, I just must focus on my game and nothing else. Because, everything is arranged. In practical life, socialism can't work, that's why they all collapsed. Observe Cuba, Venezuela and some other countries. They are independent....but you can only be independent if you don't have to import anything. It's impossible to avoid the import of all goods. When you have different system, other countries can lift the prices for that system through sanctions. So, this country pays one mango for 30 $. All countries get mutual understanding and start to sell mango for 30 $ and this country must buy mango. So, they invest in overpriced product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement In Europe, Germany, France seem as the most independent countries. Yes, they need products, but they have a choice to take what they need. Agricultural products in France are almost completely domestic. They don't import mushrooms. eggplants, etc. Yugoslavia imported textile, gas, oil mostly from non-aligned countries. But, it was not cheap also. Today, Croatia imports pigs from Hungary and makes prosciutto from these pigs. Only Istria uses their own pigs. Dalmatia makes all traditions just like in old days, but with Hungarian pigs, because Dalmatians today rather rent rooms, build boutique hotels, or large hotels for tourists. In Croatia, people don't like to work hard jobs. They import foreign workers in construction business. Croats usually say: "Oh, I'll rather save my health and spine, instead of working for some construction magnate". So, they have people from Ukraine, Armenia, Serbia, Albania, Bosnian Muslims. Now, no one wants to work in service industry on the coast: serving dishes for tourists, prepare food in kitchens of restaurants and hotels, carry coffee, beer, juices. The same statements: "Why would I work and stand all day for low incomes". Because, shifts don't end after 8 hours. People had safe jobs in Yugoslavia, but majority of people used that advantage and started to avoid to work. Yes, they would arrive there, but mostly they visited restaurants, coffee bars. The company paid this, because it was part of "completing the jobs for the company". If this became boring for them, they would go to their doctors, they would bring package of coffee, chocholate packages or even some money placed in envelope. Bribery is a huge problem in Balkans, the habit was created in the old days. Pay something to the doctor, to the teacher...widely spread. This show demonstrates how "hard" they worked in Yugoslavia. Popular saying is: "My worry, please pass on someone else" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tight_Spot Type in Youtube: Tesna Koza It's all about eating, buying yachts, concerts, because the company "needs" this. Even in capitalism, many companies collapsed because they paid bonus amounts for themselves, instead of investing it in companies. Nice term: Socialist style in capitalism. Someone needs to pay this...and it lasted 50-60 years. This could work in Scandinavian countries, where people have working ethics, they are more honest. But in Southern Europe, this does not work. In Greece people avoided to report that their family member died, especially if they worked in foreign countries, so their members received pension for decades. Olive oil provided their long lives? Scandinavian countries changed their laws because of Balkan settlers, they started to exploit many social givings. In Germany, people said, that they have 5-6 children, so that they get bigger salaries. Germans didn't checked that, because it's unreal for them. In 90's they reveal their tricks. Balkan settler visits Balkan medical doctor, this doctor invents to him some health problems and person brings this to his company and early retirement arrives. Medicine is universal, same as their opinion. People won't work anything in Balkans. The popular thing in Yugoslavia was reading newspapers, magazines. Computers were not like today, so they used magazines so that the times goes faster. Literacy was 90 percent in Yugoslavia. He speaks correct informations, but at the end someone must pay this. State can't provide enough money through export, tourism. This was maybe possible to keep in 2-3 countries who provided the wealth, but when you have other 4-5 republics without many ambitions, you get collapse. The situation in Yugoslavia was much better than in Soviet Union, Czech-Slovakia, Poland, Hungary. Hungarians printed Roman Catholic Bible in Yugoslavia in Hungarian language. Yugoslavia would work great, if Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Bosnia Herzegovina provided the same, just like Slovenia, Croatia. Economic differences started to notice ethnic and religious differences. So, we work for you and provide the wealth for you. Even in family, if female works and husband doesn't, the questions are asked. Why should I pay you the Serie A package? He has a point with the term restructuring. At first, foreign forces wanted to keep Yugoslavia. Croatia had embargo on weapons during the war. https://www.sipri.org/databases/embargoes/eu_arms_embargoes/croatia Croatia got the support when they all noticed Serbian intentions. Croatia bought weapons differently, often with Croatian diaspora money. In 80's economy started to collapse in all Yugoslav republics. So they all got their memories from WWI, WWII. All leaders of Yugoslav republics in 90's came out of socialism. This was their background, they only converted from leftist to rightist positions. Even today, parents were prominent in Yugoslavia, grandparents, etc. It's the same in other socialist countries. They all had origins in socialism. If someone was 35 years old in 1990. he needed to work at least 10 years in previous system. Car industry in Yugoslavia had cars like: Zastava, Yugo. This wasn't comparable to Mercedes, BMW, Audi...even Yugoslav president used Mercedes. https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/b...s/news-story/1a254b4d38d8c5ec1a88ace4b7e47aef So, what could someone feel, if he drives Yugo and sees someone in Mercedes? I want Mercedes too? Imagine one high school teacher with university degree who drives Yugo when he sees the president Tito whose primary occupation was: locksmith. Anyone would think about the injustice here. Also, why lover of socialist lifestyle embraces capitalism everyday? That's why socialism is only an idea, theory. Even in Yugoslavia people wanted high end products, TV brands which were popular in Yugoslavia were: Grundig, Philips, Sony, Blaupunkt, Panasonic, no one liked domestic or Soviet brands. And these ones were bought in Austria, Germany, because many people had someone there: family member, relative. Products of capitalism attract people much more: electronics, jacuzzi, cars, clothes, food brands, With Soviet, Yugoslav cars, your trip on free vacation lasted much longer, engine problems. When people started to buy Golf 1, Golf 2, Ford Taunus, Volkswagen Beetle, Opel Ascona, Opel Rekord, Opel Kadett, Renault 4, Citroen, Lancia Prisma they felt much better. These cars were popular in Europe. FIAT and Volkswagen had factories in Yugoslavia. But someone in Macedonia, Serbia, in the hills of Montenegro couldn't buy Golf 2, or FIAT. In 60's, 70's people started to leave in Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, USA, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and they told to their relatives what they have in these countries. If you want success with socialism, people can't see what happens in other countries. In Yugoslavia, Chief Executives lived well, they had safari events in Africa, bank accounts abroad, cars, clothes from abroad, their children had education in Paris, London....workers of these companies paid this, because CEO needed to reduce their salaries, so that they all might enlarge their salaries. When workers see that their boss wears Hugo Boss, Rolex, they start to ask themselves: I would like the same. In Balkans, it's harder to brainwash people, because they all observe their own interests, they don't trust much in collective, they are individuals. Serbia today tries to be independent...but their average salary isn't big at all, 400, 500 euros per month. Because they need to import majority of things. If you live below Danube river in Serbia, it's much harder. It's very hard to find completely independent countries. Even if someone has unlimited oil, he needs other goods, because they can't be developed in deserts: agricultural goods. But they are OK; because they have unlimited natural resource. Serbia was bombed in 1999. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia Serbia and Montenegro played in France 1998 as Yugoslavia, but the players literally boycotted Yugoslav anthem. Maybe one player sang. Every independence brings foreign countries so that they take what they need. Croatia recognized Kosovo and many construction companies got the infrastructure jobs. This is how things work. I will support you, if you give me something nice. The principle of trading. Before we exchanged animal fur....today we try to install our telecommunication companies, banks in other countries, so that national companies become continental, global. Slovenia protected their banks in their ownership, which is good. Croatia only has foreign banks, who dictate their own policies. But, Croatian currency kuna is very consistent. He defends Milosevic. Someone started the war in Yugoslavia. And Croatia was under embargo, military points were occupied by Serbian, Montenegrin people, who were dressed as members of Yugoslav army. https://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/01/...in-yugoslavia-tearing-apart-its-army-too.html Milosevic said that Serbs must live in a one state. He always mentioned Serbs, he doesn't mention Yugoslavs anymore. If they were all equal, where were the differences? He completely opened the cards and forgot that he wants to protect Yugoslavia and Yugoslavs. The speaker sounds more as left wing person. He talks about imperialism, their power. He defends Milosevic, because he was elected 3 times. Of course, he was elected 3 times, because he made Serbs important. He convinced them that they mean something, illusion of course. Bosnian Serb Radovan Karadzic and Croatian Serb Jovan Raskovic had the same job occupation: psychiatrists. It's all in mind tricks after all and they are the masters if they use the science properly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radovan_Karadžić https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_Rašković ...and we already have links about the priest Momcilo Dujic. So, when someone gathers: priests, psychiatrists, writers, it's very easy to motivate naive people so that they join in wars. Soft and seductive words about the greatness, mixed with mythology, atmosphere, songs, poetry bring effective demands - ready to fulfil. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mountain_Wreath All leaders of republics ruled very long, because people adjusted on that in Yugoslavia. They all attach with politicians, like they are singing, acting stars. We don't know who are leaders in Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Belgium, they all work in silence. We don't know who is the minister of traffic in Germany, Austria, minister of education in France, Netherlands. But in Southern Europe, they are all stars, who watch closely on their outfit styles. Populism is much more popular in Southern Europe. Even today, EU is one big Yugoslavia. Someone from Belgium might ask himself: "Why I work for Greece, Spain, Croatia, Italy, Portugal". And this was asked often in Northern European countries: "We finance their needs and collapsed companies". But they forget that they installed all sorts of their companies in Southern Europe, where Southern European people don't get the same salary like in Northern Europe, they work more in such companies and pay more for their services (internet provider, telecommunication services, credit loan percents). Things will change, with some other new order, with new leaders who have different mind structure. Nothing is eternal...
I appreciate the detailed post and I'd be lying if I said I read every link, the larger picture remains for me as it confirms much of what I was saying before and that is the people's of the region go into great detail and minutia to bring light to differences rather than similarities. In Italy, as you're aware, many people from Roma feel Roman first before Italian, similarly in Calabria, Sicily, Lombary and so on, just not enough to have a history of war between them.
My last post concerns much more the video material of Totti Fan, statements of M. Parenti. Personally, I have never visited Serbia, in today's borders. People of Croatia like to consume ajvar, and these product origins are disputed. But, it's not Croatian product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajvar Even residents of Croatia have big differences among each other. Someone from island of Korcula doesn't have anything with person from village Laslovo, which is in East Croatia. Residents of Laslovo are mostly ethnic Hungarians: Laszlo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laslovo Many people in Croatia feel sorry because large part of today's coastal Montenegro ended in Montenegro, not in Croatia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_Albania Cattaro, Perast, Budva, Bar. After all, these parts are parts of Dalmatia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dalmatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotor_Cathedral https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_dioceses_in_Montenegro Similarity between Croats and Serbs is in linguistic sense. They like to decline each other in linguistic sense, even though Serbia opened their university and created dictionaries much later. In academic sense, the difference is 412 years, in sense of dictionaries, the difference is 222 years. These numbers we get if we use ordinary mathematics. This interval is very hard to place as similar, equal. I think that Serbs want much more from Croatian history: poets, scientists, renaissance literature, Dalmatian coast. I doubt that anyone in Croatia would switch any city with their city, in sense of desire. Italian provinces had wars, only this was not accented in the newly part of history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Rome In today's perspective, it seems strange, that someone would go in war against the Pope in Italy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1920) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Venetian–Genoese_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Ferrara Duchy of Milan and Kingdom of Naples were on the opposite side. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_War_of_1494–1498 Duchy of Milan against Papal States, Venice, Saluzzo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_War_of_1499–1504 Papal States, Ferrara against Venice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_League_of_Cambrai Haven't read this well, but it seems that Swiss Guard had origins in these acts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_L'Aquila Even Bergamo had the status of republic. Atalanta in the Champions League. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Bergamo Unusual name of this war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Eight_Saints Some of these belligerents in these wars are today in Italy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1000–1499 Not sure who was in conflict here, too much of text. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Crotona It's easy to check the wars/battles if we type: Wars involving...(Duchy, Republic, Marquisate, Kingdom ...State name). The wars were always made because of territory, sea ports rivalry was probably important in republics that consist Italy today. Continental Croatia had wars with Dalmatian Croatia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Pannonian_Croatia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Croatia The leaders of both sides were family members. Uncle - nephew relation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljudevit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borna_of_Croatía People usually say, wars protect family homes, families. And we get the romantic stories about patriotism, religious ideals and fabrics called the flag.
Ok, but again focusing on all the differences rather than the obvious cultural similarities, which of course is going to give rise to additional discriminations, don't you think? I think most Croatians should be thankful that treaties gave them much of the coast from Italy post WWII and not worry too much about small losses. The former was a big win for the communists at that time. Totti fan would be proud of this as a supporter of communism.
It's much harder to find similarities, if someone wants to erase you from the face of the earth. Their historians are amusing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_I._Deretić This is their "mainstream" historic line. Invented conqueror called Serbon Makeridov, who is the father of all nations. Ancient Greeks and Celts are Serbs, according to him. This was their statesman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilija_Garašanin The same thing. If we want see similarities, we can see Serbian literature, where they forged several authors as their own, because the chapter of literature is half-empty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_literature How can a child of Croatian Roman Catholics, Ivo Andric, become a part of Serbian literature. Serbian Romanticism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_romantics#Serbian_Romanticism These ones don't belong here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Stojanović https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mato_Vodopić https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikša_Gradi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pero_Budmani At first, they hate Catholics, but when they say that they are Serbs, than it's OK. These ones followed their own interests, if they are hired in one of publishing houses, journals, they accept what they ask, because it's paid well. Dalmatia wasn't Croatian only after WWII. They had their own kings, before 10th century, who hailed from Dalmatia. Until 1102., Dalmatia was the part of Croatian Kingdom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Croatia_(925–1102) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Croatia Rulers like: Tomislav, Branimir, Zdeslav, Domagoj, Trpimir....had Dalmatia as the part of kingdom. Republic of Venice took control of Dalmatia in 1420 and it lasted until 1797. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice_and_Dalmatia I think that Napoleon broke the Republic of Venice. He was active in early 19th century. Losses were not so small: coastal Montenegro, southern parts of Vojvodina, parts of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Now Montenegrins try to promote the coast as their long existing heritage, even if it's Roman Catholic story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrvoje_Vukčić_Hrvatinić https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mladen_II_Šubić_of_Bribir Bay of Kotor was important maritime centre, Boka Navy, one of the oldest in Europe. https://www.britannica.com/place/Gulf-of-Kotor#ref174127 The problem is that several realms, republics, kingdoms, principalities existed with a lot of personal interests of prominent figures in all these entities. They usually had sneaky politics, semi-independent entities, protectorates of some other foreign impact. I didn't know that Totti Fan likes communism. Leftists are active in Istria, they are all mostly leftist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istria Centre-left option always wins there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istrian_Democratic_Assembly Their first president: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pauletta Other important figures: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciano_Delbianco Giovanni Sponza, Vili Rosanda. Italians in Istria are much more leftists. Which is strange to see, since socialism was not friendly to them. And, socialism usually declines natural ethnicities. https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Benussi Some other partigiani were: Luciano Simetti, Antonio Abbà. https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pino_Budicin Bandiera Rossa movement adores everything connected with Yugoslav ideology, which surprised me. Where is the connection, the bridge? Yugoslavia had much more fans abroad, outside of Yugoslavia, than inside of Yugoslav borders, which is also something unusual. Basically, everyone knew about Yugoslavia. But no one can create scientific argument, how can socialism-communism find success in practice, how can this type of society enlarge the money to pay all those free social benefits for one longer period. How to produce enough of goods, products for great export and finance all free benefits? The only salvation for Yugoslavia was unlimited oil and gas resources, or some other unlimited resource: cobalt, copper. How to prevent managers of state companies from their capitalist lifestyles? So that no one steals the money, so that workers pay their own lunches, vacations instead of companies, because they can't invest in company progress and pay frutti di mare for all their workers, union members. Managers were nice to their workers, just because those companies were not their property, so no one cared much in sense of savings and responsible sustainable development. When someone gives you 1000$, it's much easier to spend it, than when you must earn these 1000$ with hard work. I also like easy way of life, Mediterranean lifestyle, watching sunsets, palm trees, eating good fish, drinking fine wine, travel abroad, long vacations, why have 8 h working time, if I can work 1-2 hours, anyone would accept such lifestyle in Southern Europe...but can company survive with someone who spends like that and lets add around 100,200 employed people in every larger company, with same habits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandiera_Rossa That's why everything is complicated in Balkan Peninsula. We see the outcome, but we don't understand why is something like that, often without logical conclusion, at least if we try to aim scientific arguments in history. If Croatia can't find similarities with Serbia, how come they can't find the same similarities. On the other hand, they always have some territorial pretensions and they like to take over important figures and represent as them as their own. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Joseph_Boscovich Nothing is natural: - Italians in Istria as socialists, communists - Serb-Catholic Movement in Dubrovnik - They say that Yugoslavia was liberal, but I don't know about Gay Pride, or LGBT protection laws. From every position, point of view, things are complicated to understand. You want to see similarities between Croats, Serbs, but it's hard to discover them, besides linguistic similarities, first names and surnames are often similar. Their surnames are often longer. Or with Greek influence in surname root: Nastasic, Teodosic. Such countries evolved mostly through their religion, not so much through their national, secular identity. Today's Croatia was consisted of three kingdoms, one republic, maybe one realm, three principalities. Back than they were all oriented to themselves, not towards each other. If all these systems managed to survive, UEFA would have 200-300 candidates for EURO 2020. If we observe entire Europe. We can't transfer current situation on situations from earlier centuries. Republic of Ragusa worked for interests of Ragusa. Same thing was with Kingdom of Croatia, Kingdom of Dalmatia, Republic Venice, Duchy of Genova, etc. That's why they had wars. After they all collapsed they unified in some new entities: Croatia, Italy, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, etc. You think that Kingdom of Bavaria adored Kingdom of Saxony, Grand Duchy of Baden, Duchy of Anhalt, etc? In 1878. Serbia didn't had border with Croatia like today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princ...ia/File:Principality_of_Serbia_in_1878_EN.png
You don't think that belief is part of the reason these groups want to eliminate another group that almost literally speak the same language, look similar, have similar beliefs about themselves and their counterparts, same body language and gestures? Basically more similar culture than dissimilar? This idea that we have to hunt for and reveal differences is an underlying problem in that region IMO. Probably the same underlying need for recognition that cause so many Croats to claim Nicola Tesla or Marco Polo as their own, no?
Map of Italy in 10th and 11th century. http://www.maproom.org/00/08/present.php?m=0066 I believe predates first Croatian flag? And is around the same time as first Croatian independent kingdom was formulated and just before it was conquered by Hungary... https://www.infoplease.com/world/countries/croatia So land mass was different then and many changes since. If we go back further, it was a Roman province that tribes settled.
In some more personal atmosphere, if someone wants to eliminate me; Gilberto, based on my personality, integrity, culture, education, how can I find similar points, that embrace us? If someone attacks you, would you dedicate your time in learning his ways of life? Similar gestures we can find on entire Mediterranean soil, even in Northern Africa. I noticed that bull fight was pretty much popular in Arabic world, just like in Southern Europe, trading is also popular, entire Mediterranean was constructed based on science, trading, poetry. Serbia isn't Mediterranean country, no matter how much would they want to join in that part of world. Their gastronomy is based on continental dishes. They are probably good, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_cuisine They promote schnitzel as their own dish: Karadordeva Snicla, from that king Karadorde. Rakija, sljivovica exist in at least 10 more countries. Burek came from Anatolia, Levantine dish and it came in Balkan and maybe further in north. It exists in Croatia, Serbia - similarity of enjoying in Anatolian dish. It's all matter of influences, who embraced something and from where. Kacamak is polenta, Croats call this palenta, not Kacamak. Serbs use Albanian name kacamaku. Popara - probably Turkish dish which came in Balkan. This isn't something that I could call tasty and delicious. Tursija - Persian, Turkish dish, which also came in Balkan. My family used different name. Mixed pickles, something that entire world has. For me, it's harder to find similarities with Bosnian Muslims, Bosnian Orthodox Christians, Albanians, Greeks, Bulgarians. The main similarity is animosity between each others. Desire to undermine normal relations, nationalists are much louder and they use romantic and seductive statements to attract more popularity. Scandinavians look the same, but Norway was occupied from Denmark, Sweden. Similar languages. Sweden took over Finland. Germans had long lasting wars, Catholics - Protestants. People of Marseille, Nice are different from those in Lille, Paris, Metz...but the language is the same. Russia, Ukraine conflict, they also look similar. Body gestures, non-verbal communication are just small percent. In 10th century, Bulgarian Kingdom had border with Kingdom of Croatia. Bosnia was Croatia, Serbia was Bulgaria back than. Serbia was under Bulgaria from 681-1018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire Wars between Croatia - Bulgaria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian–Bulgarian_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian–Bulgarian_battle_of_926 Serbs inherited almost everything from Bulgarians. Religion. When we observe typical Bulgarian surnames: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bulgarian-language_surnames Atanasov....just add Atanasovic and it's Serbian. Blagoev...Blagoevic, Blagojevic. Bogdanov...Bogdanovic Dimitrov...Dimitrovic Gavrilov...Gavrilovic Gyurov...Djurovic Ivanov...Ivanovic Ivkov...Ivkovic Konstantinov...Konstantinovic Radulov...Radulovic Popov...Popovic Petrov...Petrovic Manolov...Manojlovic Kovachev...Kovacevic Kolarov...Aleksandar Kolarov Kirilov...Kirilovic Stamatov...Stamatovic Stojanov...Stoyanov...Stojanovic Vasilev...Vasiljevic Yovchev...Jovetic, Jovcevic Zhivkov...Zivkovic Second Bulgarian Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bulgarian_Empire Serbia was out of Bulgarian Empire. Croats and Bulgarians don't have any common ties. They are of Turkic origins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgars Croatia has great relations with Bulgaria today. No border, no battles, pretty friendly. Nikola Tesla was born in Smiljan, part of Croatia. But no one claims him as Croatian inventor. Marco Polo was a Venetian merchant, wounded in the war against Genova. This was a passport of Nikola Tesla. https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#/media/File:Putovnica_Nikola_Tesla_01082.JPG Austrian, with visible words of Kon. Kroat. Slav. Dalm., which means Konigreich of Kroatien-Slavonien und Dalmatien. In upper left part, it's visible Croatian checkerboard. Serbs don't like to see this, they rather ignore it. Nikola Tesla achieved his entire fame in USA mostly, faraway from religious brainwashing. After all, scientists are usually less religious. They try to claim his devoted Orthodox Christian lifestyle. Nobody says in Croatia that he is part of some Croatian Orthodox Movement. His ancestors lived there at least 400-500 years. Not 50-100.
I see Kindom of Lombardy, Duchy of Tuscany, Duchy of Spoletto. You are transferring the sentiment of XX. century in Xi. century. Typical mistake of all European countries. These ones ruled in Dalmatia before Xi. century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Croatia#Dukes_of_Dalmatian_Croatia_(7th_century–925) Even Venetian sources mention several of these rulers. Venetian Republic was an independent republic, same as Republic of Ragusa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Dalmatia#/media/File:Republik_Venedig.png Republic of Ragusa gifted one part of their territory to Ottoman Empire, so that they avoid the border with Republic of Venice. Neum is today in Herzegovina, since 1699. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neum Ragusa and Venice were rivals, not the same state. Sutorina and Herceg Novi is southern buffer zone. You placed 10th and 11th century, but events happened in 6th, 7th century. We can go to the Illyrian Province, before Roman Empire and Republic of Venice. Never ending story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyria We can embrace the founders of Split, Hvar, Epidaurus, Vis, etc. - ancient Greeks. No one came the first in one space. Greeks had colonies on entire Mediterranean. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonies_in_antiquity Similar discussion Serbs try to make, but at the end they lose, because they can't embrace Ancient Greeks, who conquered Adriatic coast, large parts of today's Italy, Nice, Marseille, Southern Spanish coast, Northern African coast. That's why these discussions can be amusing, because one period ends, another starts and it can be changed every 100, 200 years. Imagine that today's Greeks start to return their colonies. Technically, we should be all silent. And if Arabs start to ask something: Emirate of Cordoba, Emirate of Sicily (831-1091), Malta. History is often amusing. You placed the maps of 10th century, I can place at least 10 maps of Southern Europe before 10th century. Greeks, Phoenicians, Arabs could also say something...maybe not Phoenicians. Illyrians fought with Romans, so Illyrians existed on Eastern Adriatic before Romans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_Wars Demetrius of Pharos, died in 214. before Christ. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_Wars He was Greek or Illyrian. Pharos is today's island of Hvar, which came from the Greek version of Pharos. The city was founded in 385. year before Christ, before Romans, before everything. There is an sailing race called Pharos - Paros and it embraces island of Hvar and Greek island of Paros. Three Illyrian wars existed, Romans came and Illyrians were already there. It's always someone else first. I thought that you knew this information? You could maybe find similarities with Serbs. Similar rhetoric. They end with discussion around 16th century. No more data to embrace medieval and pre-Roman times. The history is an science, not wishful thinking, transfer of XX. century sentiments on earlier periods. This can't pass in any objective discussion. It's possible to talk mostly about the contributions, but civilisations arrive, became powerful and they collapse. If you mention Roman Empire, why not take over Spain, Portugal, France, Romania, Switzerland, Belgium and all other territories, not only Romance speaking parts of Europe? Why not claiming region Rumelia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumelia
Well, it probably would be a pretty good strategy if you want to appeal to a side of him that does not want to eliminate you. I think I stand pretty firm on the observation that groups within the Balkans have been trying to eliminate each other, for millennia, precisely because they keep trying to seek differences rather than focus on similarities. Even Haplogroups confirm so much genetic similarities exist because of interbreeding of the many tribes that settled regions for the last 1500 years. What about periods of time in between wars against each other, like now? Still better to focus on differences from past history rather than so many obvious similarities? That's an unfortunate perspective to be honest. I'd say main similarities I've noticed is that they basically understand each other, have similar sized foreheads and are all fairly stubborn. Yeah, like I was saying about Italians. It's clearly a global phenomenon, just in most places not enough to kill each other and constantly go to war with each other over. I don't think it's very small. Communication is a big part of a culture, as are haplogroups. The various nations of the Balkans share both more with each other than you might care to admit, and I invite the possibility of considering if this was discussed and highlighted more than the rest, maybe less war and misery would have occurred over the years. That's not limited to that region either. Too many wars