** A New Era - Rebuilding the Azzurri

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by Stamos, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #801 Gilbertsson, Nov 16, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    How can Vasquez play for Argentina if he was already capped by Italy at the senior level? Is there an age limit?
     
  3. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    It's strange for me also. One case: Fran Karacic was born in Croatia, but his father was born in Australia. FIFA removed him from Australian NT.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran_Karačić

    Gregory Sertic (France) and Dario Cvitanich (Argentina) couldn't play for Croatia because FIFA refused this. Grandfather of Sertic is from Croatia and great grandparents are from Croatia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grégory_Sertic
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darío_Cvitanich

    Maybe Vazquez played only friendly matches? His nickname is El Mudo (The Mute). He is silent, but very much operative.:D Player without national team status doesn't worth much. He knows this.
    At the end, what's the Oriundo variation accepted by FIFA, UEFA? It seems, no one can go further from their parents, if grandfather isn't accepted.:D

    FIFA eligibility rule:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules
     
  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Yeah and I had an argument just a few months ago with someone who stated in the threads there will be no way FIFA will change the eligibility rules when I suggested Dybala play for Italy. The thing is, the stupid rule has been changed countless times through the years and its ludicrous to believe that it won’t be changed again. I'm all for Italian born players but when you only have 2-3 Italians starting for top clubs in the Serie A, you may as well go after the Oriundi.
     
  5. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    The article says Vazquez only played in friendlies for Italy so he wasn't cap tied to them.
     
  6. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #806 Gilbertsson, Nov 16, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
    I think that Dybala feels much more as Polish.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Dybala

    "Due to his family heritage, Dybala was eligible to play for Poland and Italy, but expressly stated that he feels Argentine and had always dreamed of playing for Argentina.[57] Despite having sealed his decision of representing Argentina's colours, Dybala maintains that he feels a strong connection to his grandfather's country of origin, referring to it as "my family's blood".

    https://www.marca.com/2014/11/28/futbol/futbol_internacional/argentina/1417167626.html

    Dybala has three passports. But Polish FA President said: We are serious country, we don't collect players from other countries.:D He would be happy, if he had accepted Poland, but their results don't bring some satisfaction for picking them. His grandmother on his mothers side is Italian. That's how he got Italian passport.

    But he didn't also accepted Argentine NT completely: Conte, sin embargo, viajó hasta Palermo para convencerle de que juegue con Italia. "Si acepta, estaría encantado", comentó el seleccionador de la Azzurra. "Es un honor que se interese por mí, pero debo hablarlo con mi familia. Es una decisión delicada", replicó Dybala, que espera impaciente la llamada de la Albiceleste, con la que solo ha sido internacional dos veces en categorías inferiores.

    If he is an Argentine, why does he need to discuss with his family?

    These last words seem strong. That's the negative side. We build something based on the surname which is suitable for us. Many people in the American soil, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa have several ethnic groups.

    Paulo Dybala should take Italian team, enough space for him, in Argentina he will never have that advantage, because Messi doesn't want to have him around.

    It's hard to get the player who has Italian, Spanish origins, or some third origin in his own family tree.

    It's also funny to see that goalkeeper from above: Bettinelli. In his Wikipedia biography it is written that his father has partial Italian heritage. Completely wrong, this is his entire male line.

    Gabriel Heinze was also interesting case. Mother is Italian, father is German, but from Russia, Volga area. He chased German players and Oliver Bierhoff after the match against Germany, World Cup 2006, those penalties when Lehmann had all penalty solutions of Argentine shooters on his paper. In some strange way, atmosphere demands that someone dislikes his family origins to prove something.

    Brazilians hate Diego Costa, because he picked Spanish team. Many people in new world are sensitive on those newer melting pot states and they demand that you need to be something else, instead of your European origins.

    I noticed that Germany doesn't invite players from Turkey anymore: Can, Gundogan. Grandfather of Gundogan came in Germany, parents were born in Germany. Cultural crisis in Germany.:rolleyes:

    From my European perspective, it's harder to understand what makes someone as an Argentine, Brazilian, Australian, American. But I see numerous statements where they repeat: 100% Argentino, Brasileiro, etc.

    On the other hand, footballer Walter Kannemann has a nickname: Aleman (German) in Argentina. So, even if you want to be 100% Argentino, they different you from majority.

    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Kannemann

    It was one strange situation with Croatian goalkeeper Danijel Subasic. His father is a Serb of Croatia, his mother Croatian. In one of the matches, at this World Cup, he made a sign of cross. People started to discuss, is it Roman Catholic (Croatian) or Orthodox Christian style?


    It's interesting to see sons of George Weah and Jurgen Klinsmann who play for USA.:D

    The pressure on players is too big, without national team connection, footballers value isn't that much high like with some nice NT. In English team, it's not popular to declare Irish origins: Harry Kane, Maguire, Pickford changed his surname to remove his Irish surname Logan, Michael Keane, maybe McCarthy, Shaw, Callum Wilson.:D
     
  7. Alex101

    Alex101 Member

    Mar 15, 2017
    Anyone at all concerned with the future CB position for Italy?

    Bonucci and Chellini are 31 and 34.
    Romanagli is the only decent young CB that plays alot of minutes in Serie A, but he doesnt play at all for Italy.

    Rugani....idiot would rather rot on the Juve bench then play at another club and Caldara has been hurt quite a bit this season and is barely playing at Milan.

    Other then that, Italy will struggle in this position in future years
     
  8. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    the difference between Serie A wrt Italian NT and Ligue 1 wrt French NT (and you could also say the same thing about a lot of south american NTs also) is that the French league is a breeding ground for developing potential French talent whereas Italian NT selectors are denied the same opportunity.

    This is because:
    - on numbers alone the French league has a higher percentage of locals playing and so a larger pool of players to draw from
    - most of the important positions in big teams in Serie A go to foreigners unlike in Ligue 1
    - not all players develop at the same time, and scouts don't always make the right decisions so theoretically some potential NT players never get picked up in Italy b/c they may not make it to Serie A
    - player's improve the more they play, good Italian players may never get the opportunity to become great. -> in France their is less limitation on player development
     
  9. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #809 Gilbertsson, Nov 16, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
    The history showed that it's normal when Italy has older defenders. Materazzi and Cannavaro had 32 in Germany 2006. Nesta and Maldini used his long experience in AC Milan.

    There is also Emerson Palmieri, Biraghi is still enough young, 26. De Sciglio plays nice, first squad of Juventus, not sure is Florenzi good like some previous players.

    U21 team has Davide Calabria, Gianluca Mancini, Giuseppe Pezzella plays in Udinese, if he is good, Juventus will buy him, because they share great relations with Udinese. Kevin Bonifazi is a Torino player, on loan in SPAL. If he is great, Torino wouldn't loan him.

    Sebastiano Luperto (Napoli)?
    Luca Pellegrini (Roma)?
    Marco Varnier (Atalanta)?
    Lorenzo Maria Dickmann?

    It's important that FIGC makes something and brings several players from abroad: Argentina, Uruguay, maybe Germany. All stronger European teams have issues with making the talents, because Europeans gave up from sports.:D

    How can Argentine player Calcaterra play for Peru. Obvious Italian surname, born in Argentina? Based on residence in Peru?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horacio_Calcaterra

    FIGC missed player of Uruguay Lucas Torreira di Pascua. Easter would be much nicer.:D He plays in Arsenal, this means technical and versatile.

    "Torreira was born in Uruguay, and is of Spanish descent through his paternal grandfather from Galicia.[11] He holds a Spanish passport, and was scouted by the senior Italy national football team before he was capped by Uruguay."

    I wonder which expert scouted him and proclaimed him as a weak material?

    Marcelo Saracchi is in Leipzig, another potential nice defender, 20 years, maybe he played only friendly matches.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcelo_Saracchi

    How can Portugal bring so many Brazilians, Cape Verde, Mozambique, Angola players in their NT through decades.:confused:
     
  10. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Marseille has 16 players highlighted with French flag, even though majority of all Ligue 1 French players came from French colonies or from other European countries.

    Even PSG has 13 French players.:eek: And they can buy anyone. Lyon has 16 French players. One of them is Jordan Ferri (Italian from Italy or Italian from Corsica), Lille has only 10 French players, Montpellier 20, one of them Nicolas Cozza

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Cozza

    St. Etienne has 18 French players.

    One of them is Remy Cabella, Italian father and Corsican mother, which is Italian.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rémy_Cabella

    There is Corsica NT. Maybe they will get independence some day.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsica_national_football_team
     
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  11. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    According to this website, Clarence Seedorf is 2,7% Italian.:)
    http://ethnicelebs.com/clarence-seedorf

    https://blog.myheritage.com/2018/07...y-discoveries-for-legendary-football-players/

    Hernan Crespo 27.6% Italian.;)

    Robert Pires 38.1% Italian.:cool:

    Gianluca Zambrotta 62.6% Italian.:) His Greek origins probably embrace southern Italy: Campania, Calabria and Sicily; Magna Graecia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Graecia
    http://www.imperobizantino.it/cognomi-greci-in-calabria/

    Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Arcidiacono

    I think this is all because of historic migrations. We are all probably 50-60% in one ethnicity and other 40,50% belong to the diverse ethnic groups and geographical territories where our ancestors lived.
     
  12. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Would be interesting to know how many Croats on the coast are Italian % too. Culturally it's pretty high.
     
  13. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #813 Gilbertsson, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
    Yes, this is true, even my own heritage is Latin Romance, there are a lot of villa rustica settlements. Their business was connected with trade and birds called the falcons and they paid different type of taxes.
    Percent of heritage for sure has its variations. There are those who have Latin Romance heritage on Dalmatian coast, Bosnia and Herzegovina prior to unification of Italy. Unita d'Italia started in 1815 and it ended in 1871. Usually it's called Risorgimento.
    Majority of Romance Latin people in Balkan Peninsula usually have Venetian origins, and it embraces Venetian Republic, they came as traders who visited even Levant.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Church_in_the_Middle_East

    These Croatian footballers might have Latin Romance heritage prior to Italian unification and here I mean on Roman legions and their descendants: Zvonimir Boban, Stipe Pletikosa, maybe Luka Modric, Robert and Niko Kovac, Ivan Perisic, Jerko Leko, Igor Tudor, Igor Stimac, maybe Mario Stanic, Stjepan Tomas, Sime Vrsaljko, Ivica Mornar, Ante Rebic, Kruno Jurcic, Nikola Jerkan, Slaven Bilic, Davor Suker, Dario Simic, Nikica Jelavic, Alen Boksic, Gordon Schildenfeld (mother),

    Their origins are Dalmatia and Herzegovina. Not sure about Mario Stanic because he was born in Bosnia, but they say that he has Herzegovina origins, that's why I am not so sure. Whoever has Dalmatian origins, origins from Herzegovina, Montenegro either coastal, or continental, he could have Romance Latin origins. I don't know how is in Albania, Serbia also has Vlach communities. Also, when someone is in the middle between Roman and ancient Greek territories, migration influx was evident from all directions.
    Through centuries differences were created between those who are on islands, those who are at the coast and those who are in mountains. Even if they are similar in origins, there is nice percent of mutual antagonism, especially against those from mountain, continental regions.

    Also, Luka Modric is from Dalmatian city of Zadar, but his ancestor came from Velebit mountain, could be connected with Roman legions.

    Vedran Corluka is from Bosnia, but his origins could be from Herzegovina.

    The thing about Danijel Subasic isn't certain, because on his fathers side, he has Orthodox Christian origins. That's not a part of Romance Latin community in that part.

    Migrations went also in unusual directions. Earlier in history, tourism did not existed in massive commercial way, like today, so people went from Dalmatian coast and Herzegovina in regions like Bosnia, Slavonia. The pursuit for land, continental environment, farm fields, a lot of digging.:D In today's sense, it's hard to understand when someone leaves Dalmatia and goes in Slavonia, or Bosnia.

    There are also Vlach people, Morlacco, they were Romanized, they can be traced in entire Balkan Peninsula, from Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Greece, Macedonia, Montenegro, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania.

    There are Aromanians also:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aromanians
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aromanian_settlements

    Vlachs in Serbia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_in_Serbia_inhabited_by_Vlachs
    Vlachs in Croatia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_in_the_history_of_Croatia

    Greeks also founded settlements in Croatian coast:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Greek_colonies_in_Illyria

    Northern Croats are much lighter than Southern Croats.

    Slavic languages prevailed through centuries, but people are aware, many of them don't care, for me, it's interesting, for someone not.

    I know one friend, his ancestors came in 10th century in Dubrovnik, back than Republic of Ragusa. In 15th, 16th centuries, Genoa and Venice had mutual wars.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian–Genoese_wars

    Balkan Peninsula is much more attached to Venice. I doubt that someone from Napoli, Sardinia, Torino, Milano might arrive so far in the east and settle there, but Adriatic part of Italy is possible.

    Footballer Ivan Santini is newer settler, after the unification.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Santini

    Differences existed, those prior unification spoke Latin language, later Italian language became official and replaced Latin language variations.

    There are some with Slavic origins, who adopted Italian nation:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_Italians

    Alessandro Dudan, Gabre Gabric, Renzo de Vidovich, Ana Grepo...but they probably have Roman Latin origins, prior to unification of Italy.

    Scientific discussion is: how much can they be similar, if someone lived 10 centuries in one geographical area with those who came later and live maybe 200 years? The old ones embraced and cropped the ideal form of Latin culture, through trading, poetry, science and new ones had different occupations and point of views.
     
  14. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    My inlaws are from Pula, formerly Pola. A lot of Italian culture still permeates the coastline. It's a beautiful coast btw. Their families left shortly after the turnover due to increasing hostilities in that time.
     
  15. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #815 Gilbertsson, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
    Yes, Yugoslavia was a dungeon for Italians, Croats, Slovenes, basically for all Roman Catholics. Somehow, Orthodox Christianity had an advantage, even though communism promoted atheism. Go figure.:D That's why Croatia formed alliance with Italy in WWII, but they lost and Yugoslavia was created. Germany, Japan also lost. Maybe it would be better with different allies: England, France, USA. But Italy disliked French people, although they are Latin and Italy wanted Monaco, Nice, Marseille, entire coast basically, with Malta, Corfu in Greece. Huge mission in geographical terms. Many innocent people died without any need.:confused: Even after WWII, many Italians remained in Yugoslavia. It's interesting, newer settlers were attacked more from Yugoslavs, but old Latin Romance communities and Vlachs were mostly ignored as an threat. Yugoslavia was a artificial country. All ethnic groups declined their true ethnicities and tried to adopt Yugoslav ethnicity. It was impossible to force Croats, Slovenes, Italians, Hungarians of Croatia, Serbia, Czechs, Slovaks, Bosnian Muslims, Serbs, Macedonians that they become Yugoslavs, differences were too big.

    That's why it's easier to share mutual relations between Italians, Croats, Slovenes without Serbs, Orthodox Montenegrins, Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Muslims.

    Even Bosnian Muslims could have Latin Roman origins, they exist in Herzegovina.
    Vahid Halilhodzic, Hasan Salihamidzic, Sergej Barbarez. But Muslims dislike anything Christian today. Strange behaviour, they are attached more with Turkey even though they don't speak Turkish.:D Product of Ottoman Empire.

    Istria is a very delicate region, because many Slavic surnames was romanized and many Latin-Italian surnames were went through slavicisation. This was not necessary at all.:confused:

    That's why you have Montnegrins Pastrovic who became Pastrovicchio in Istria.:D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istrian_Italians

    Some surnames are really strange: Grossich, Bastianich, Juri, Dobrovic, Cernogoraz literally means Montenegrino, Sluga means Servant in Croatian, Schergat is also strange. I don't like when someone changes surnames, just to be someone else.:cool:

    Lidia Bastianich is also romanized surname, her other surname was Motika and it was changed into Maticchio.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Bastianich

    Lovrečić, Pavićevac, Smilović should be the original surnames in her family tree. Motika is a agricultural object in Croatian language. Pavićevac is a Shtokavian surname, and Istria should be Chakavian. She could have Dalmatian, Bosnian origins, just because of that Pavićevac. That's why Istria is strange for both nations.

    Southern Italy has Greek, Albanian, some percent of Croatian in Molise, Abruzzo, Phoenician people mostly from Malta. That's why there is a surname Fenech. Similar is in Dalmatia. Only without Phoenician and few percent of Albanians. There is an Albanian settlement Arbanasi in area of Zadar.

    Zlatan Ibrahimovic could be of Roman origins through his mother, similar to Mark Viduka and Jason Culina from Australia. Culina is a typical Latin surname, because it has UL in surname: Romulus, Iulius, Tertulian. All cities, surnames if they have UL inside were created from Roman legions, from Portugal to Romania.

    I don't understand why Italians forget that Romania is a distant Roman legion colony? There are no serious relations between Italy and Romania. They even prefer France more, unknown reason for me. Romanians are not so popular in Italy, there is a saying: Tu parla come uno rumeno. You speak like a Romanian.:p I never understood this. But Croats don't consider Romanians as their "cousins". Not sure why, maybe Orthodox Christianity.

    Migrations were in many directions, much harder to follow. I can track my family tree until 17th century, because we had noble status, everything further it's much harder. Ordinary people can't go until 17th century. It would be nice to know from which area or place people came on some new soils.
     
  16. UdineseFan98

    UdineseFan98 Member

    Mar 12, 2017
    St. Catherines, ON
    Club:
    Udinese Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I am in no way, shape, or form concerned in Italy's CB's in the future. Bastoni, Caldara, Mancini, Rugani, Romanogli, among others. And Bonucci is going to be around for a while yet.
     
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  17. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Nobody thinks that Italy has problems with CB, CDM, CM, GK players. But, it would be good to have more choices, options in CAM, CF, RAM, LAM, RM, LM positions.

    Defenders are good, as usual. Players like Roberto Baggio, Enrico Chiesa, Francesco Coco, Antonio Conte, Marco Delvecchio, Luigi di Biagio, since you are Udinese fan, you probably remember Muzzi, di Natale, Iaquinta. Such players would be great now.
    Di Vaio was nice, Cristiano Doni would be solid, Stefano Fiore from Lazio era, Giuliano Giannichedda. Some of these ones were not in the first plan.
    Of course, it's hard to create new Totti, Del Piero, Di Livio, Vieri, Damiano Tommasi, Zola, Vialli, Ravanelli. Juventus, Milan created great players, nice influence for players who would arrive from Parma, Roma, Lazio.

    Nicola Berti who was not so present in NT, even Marco Borriello would be nice now, also Christian Brocchi, he would be solid for transition between De Rossi and someone new.

    Players from other countries seem nice, only if they have Italian-Latin surname from someone. But I don't like this case of Vazquez. He isn't Argentine or Italian patriot. If you make an agreement with someone, about something, it's better to fulfil this. Switching sides in short period is funny, because they all know that wrong NT brings weak club career.

    They are all aware of Daniel Bilos situation in Argentina.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Bilos

    "Since he is of Croatian descent, Bilos (originally Biloš) was offered in 2006 the chance to play for Croatia in the World Cup Germany 06, but he declined the offer because he felt he still had a chance to play for the country of his birth."

    In 2006, Argentina was too strong, Croatia switched generation, so Bilos might fit in. Now he is in some Douglas Haig, El Milan de Pergamino.:D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_Atlético_Douglas_Haig

    Douglas Haig, sounds more like an old English hat company.:D

    I see that other Argentine Croat plays there: Lautaro Ostoich.:rolleyes:

    The only great Oriundi were Camoranesi and Thiago Motta. But I would accept Rodrigo Taddei now, he played in wrong decade.:cool:

    Mancini follows Driussi and Pussetto I think.:rolleyes: Not sure about them.:confused:
     
  18. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    No to Tommasi, Delvecchio, Di Livio, Di Biagio, Dino, Coco B'ware, Borriello or Brochi. Hard workers with some tactical nous, otherwise average skill. They're not special but could carry out a role within a system.
     
  19. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I think that you're right for most part, while communism suppressed a lot of people of the former Yugoslavia, and the yugoslav army was responsible for the genocide of alot of Italians in the foibe massacre, Croats and Slovenes will be the last to argue where the same system benefited them. It's unlikely they will complain about the land given to them as a result of the Foibe. Slovenian government has since made reparations to Italians that lost generational land, Croatia has yet to do so and probably never will. This will go to the way side because Italian government will be afraid of making issues to avoid the leftist medias cry of fascism that will result by association. It's a sticky situation that most people want to avoid and ignore.
     
  20. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Di Livio was a great technician, lower height, but very fast. Delvecchio had an effort to run, distract opponents close to the outline. Brocchi was not good technician, but he had huge energy, especially in Fiorentina. I am not saying that they are all great. They were underestimated before, because of much more gifted players. But today, they would be acceptable.
    Still, there are players from Lazio, Roma, Fiorentina. Jorginho, Verratti, maybe Zaniolo, Benassi, Cristante, Gagliardini.
    I felt before that Simone Zaza would be the great player, but not anymore. He would enter from the bench, real disaster for every defence, but today he is much less explosive.
     
  21. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Di Livio is a modern day Giaccherini. Disciplined, hard working and will carry out his job. I think this can't be overstated any more accurately than when Trapatoni selected him over Baggio for the final spot of the 2002 team. Delvecchio a battering ram with finish, at the moment no one would deny having someone like him, but maybe only the version of that one great season. Someone better than him will emerge. Brochi is a donkey through and through. We're trying to eliminate this kind of player. They all would be acceptable for tactical setups that favor their so called talents.

    He fizzled away quickly after his move from Sassuolo. I know many think because he went to Juve and there was too much competition for that position. Then the EPL happened. No one will miss him.
     
  22. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #822 Gilbertsson, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
    That's why Croatia has much bigger diaspora, because of Yugoslavia. They all left in 1945., 70's. Yes, they (Yugoslav Army) did those foibe incidents. Didn't know about unpaid damage for Italian settlers. Didn't know that Slovenia paid anything.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foibe_massacres

    They should all pay for destroyed families and lost lives.

    All first presidents, governments, in all ex-Yugoslavia countries have leftist past, only they started to rule with new states.

    Yugoslavs used these funny arguments:
    1. Istria was never placed among Croatian borders or Yugoslav borders prior to 1945.
    2. They also mention Rab concentration camp as an negative response.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rab_concentration_camp

    From their point of view, winners create the new history. Croatia, Italy lost in the WWII.

    I don't see any benefit for Croats or Slovenes in Yugoslavia. First, they were the main economic countries in Yugoslavia, so they fed others: Serbs, Bosnian Muslims, Montenegrins, Macedonians, Albanians from Kosovo, a lot of Romani (Gypsy) people lived in Yugoslavia. The official language in Yugoslavia was Serbo-Croatian, even though they lack in poetry, literature, art. In 70's and 80's Yugoslav economy collapsed, only state companies, something similar to Venezuela.

    Croatia had much more problems in Yugoslavia:
    - cultural, ethnic, religious decline.
    - economic problems, if you finance lazy ones.
    - high number of people in diaspora, probably around 4 millions in entire world.
    - demographic breakdown that we see today, old residents.
    - pension funds issues.
    - war damage was not paid from Serbia, Montenegro, even though they lost.

    Can't name really any great benefit, maybe free education, which was socialist, marxist, now you figure is this something with quality. Healthcare was free and all companies were in state ownership. All those companies collapsed in 80's and during privatisation in 90's.

    Poland still waits German money for damages in WWII. I don't understand why Croatia doesn't want to return homes, lands, pay the damage. It would be an nice civilisation gesture.

    Croatia probably uses the argument, that they were not responsible for Yugoslav war crimes. Because Croatia was in alliance with Italy and lost together with Italy. Ethnic Croats wanted to avoid Yugoslavia, there were similar states: Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, after WWI until 1941. And Yugoslavia from 1945 - 1990. Only Serbs liked the idea of sea exit for themselves. Even Kosovo doesn't want to be with them. Montenegro left. Macedonians need to change the state name. There are serious identity issues in Macedonia, Montenegro, because coastal Montenegro has Roman Catholic people, highlanders are Orthodox. Problems with Bosnian Muslim identity. Were they converted from Catholics or Orthodox, they want to be closer to Turkey, but they don't know the language, they speak just like Croats, or Serbs with smaller variations. Bosnia and Herzegovina is smaller Yugoslavia edition state and it doesn't function at all, dark zone of Central Europe basically.

    Similar is in case of Croatia - Serbia war. Croatia also waits money for damage, destruction in East Croatia, they attacked coastline also. But they say, talk with the Yugoslav government, Yugoslav Army key people. Their argument is, that Serbia was created in 1992, also they masked with state Serbia and Montenegro. Montenegrins also attacked Croatian South, those of Orthodox faith.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_War_of_Independence

    Croatia had 400 000 displaced people when Serbia (Yugoslav Army) attacked them. Serbs wanted to revenge because of WWI, WWII.

    Entire ex-Yugoslavia had concentration camps in WWII.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...d_massacres_in_Yugoslavia_during_World_War_II

    Ustase are Croats, Croatian army.
    Chetniks are Serbs, Serbian radical army.
    Partisans were all united in creation of Yugoslavia.
    And you probably see Hungarians.

    At the end, they made mutual killings. Is there any online article to see the status of potential paying? It can be in Italian language. I understand it.
     
  23. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Delvecchio was great in Roma. Before, top Italian clubs dictated the NT, now I see invitations from Brescia, Sassuolo, Cagliari. Before no one could play if he is not from Juventus, Milan, Inter, Roma, Lazio, Parma. Tacchinardi was not in the NT often, same as Birindelli, Pessotto. Today, they would be all invited. The solution is, make it like France. Millions of migrants could provide excellent 23 players: Camara, 3,4 Coulibaly persons, 1,2 Keita, Diaby, Dembele...and the result will be there. Other problem is the identity of the team, fans who support some other people.

    Caribbean England, France.
    African France, Belgium, Germany.
    Surinamese Netherlands.
    African Portugal (colonies Cape Verde, Angola, Mozambique, Brazil).

    The only solutions for great results, obviously they don't have problems hiring them. Liberal atmosphere. They will be the key teams in Europe. Others struggle or brings diaspora if they accept invites.
     
  24. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #824 Gilbertsson, Nov 29, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
    ...costruzione.

    Emiliano Viviano - Sporting Lisbon. He could be in competition as 2nd or 3rd goalkeeper.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emiliano_Viviano

    [​IMG]

    Raphael Dias Belloli - Italo - Brazilian - Sporting Lisbon
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphinha_(footballer,_born_1996)

    He already has Italian citizenship.
    https://www.transfermarkt.com/raphinha/profil/spieler/411295

    North Italian surname:
    https://www.heraldrysinstitute.com/lang/it/cognomi/idc/802885
    https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/BELLOLI
    https://www.cognomix.it/origine-cognome/belloli.php

    [​IMG]
     
  25. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Its great then that he says it now isnt it? The guy is corrupt. Easy to say things now when you have no duty to do anything, not in a postistion where you can do good but instead work for greedy presidents. He is just trying to win some popularity and deflect any critism people have of him.
     

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