NSR: A gun on Every Corner: Discuss the NRA, Gun Ownership and All Those Non-Mass Shootings..

Dr. Wankler · Dec 28, 2016

That Smith and Wesson .38 is the second-most seized gun? Someone might want to see if the Dalton Gang is back in business.

Moishe · Dec 29, 2016

Dr. Wankler said: ↑

That Smith and Wesson .38 is the second-most seized gun? Someone might want to see if the Dalton Gang is back in business.
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Bob Dalton and his crew were Colt single action Army users. Also the .38 wasn't brought about until three years after Dalton's death. Truth is that any mention of Dalton should be in the adventures in policing thread being that they were lawmen that went on to be corrupt thieves in their own right. Only in America to quote Don King.

dapip · Dec 29, 2016

ceezmad said: ↑

Quick lets ban assault rifles, because that is going to help Chicago a lot.
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In 2015 as many people died in mass shootings in the US as people died in Chicago this year from gun violence. Banning assault rifles (or at least making them more difficult to obtain) would help keep the tab low on that end, while a more comprehensive national gun regulation would lower the tab on street violence all over America. 30,000 people dying is not a small number and it requires multiple solutions.

ceezmad · Dec 29, 2016

dapip said: ↑

In 2015 as many people died in mass shootings in the US as people died in Chicago this year from gun violence. Banning assault rifles (or at least making them more difficult to obtain) would help keep the tab low on that end, while a more comprehensive national gun regulation would lower the tab on street violence all over America. 30,000 people dying is not a small number and it requires multiple solutions.
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Mass shootings are 3+ people right?

We have a few of those days (not always single incident) a few weekends per year, but they tend to be in poor black neighborhoods, so CNN, Fox, MSNBC don't really cover it, not enough ratings.

dapip · Dec 29, 2016

ceezmad said: ↑

Mass shootings are 3+ people right?

We have a few of those days (not always single incident) a few weekends per year, but they tend to be in poor black neighborhoods, so CNN, Fox, MSNBC don't really cover it, not enough ratings.
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4+ is the definition IIRC. By that definition there is one every other day across the US.

ceezmad · Dec 29, 2016

4 is a slow day in Chicago.

Here our .44s make sure your kids don't grow.

Dr. Wankler · Dec 29, 2016

Moishe said: ↑

Bob Dalton and his crew were Colt single action Army users. Also the .38 wasn't brought about until three years after Dalton's death. Truth is that any mention of Dalton should be in the adventures in policing thread being that they were lawmen that went on to be corrupt thieves in their own right. Only in America to quote Don King.
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Granted, but then again, that also makes it pertinent to any discussion about crime in Chicago.

Not necessarily in this case, obviously. But if a story eventually emerges that connects a few of Chicago's finest to gun running, I won't be that surprised.

Moishe · Dec 29, 2016

Dr. Wankler said: ↑

Granted, but then again, that also makes it pertinent to any discussion about crime in Chicago.

Not necessarily in this case, obviously. But if a story eventually emerges that connects a few of Chicago's finest to gun running, I won't be that surprised.
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Definitely wouldn't be surprised...of course Jake would fight your comment tooth and nail.

dapip · Dec 29, 2016

ceezmad said: ↑

4 is a slow day in Chicago.

Here our .44s make sure your kids don't grow.
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No it is not. 500/365 < 4. Besides they have to be in the same incident.

Dr. Wankler · Dec 29, 2016

Moishe said: ↑

Definitely wouldn't be surprised...of course Jake would fight your comment tooth and nail.
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How my post appears to you...

Dr. Wankler said: ↑

Granted, but then again, that also makes it pertinent to any discussion about crime in Chicago.

Not necessarily in this case, obviously. But if a story eventually emerges that connects a few of Chicago's finest to gun running, I won't be that surprised.
Click to expand...

How it would appear to Jake.

Dr. Wankler said: ↑

Granted, but then again, that also makes it pertinent to any discussion about crime in Chicago.

That's happening here, obviously. When the story eventually emerges connecting all of Chicago's finest to gun running, I will be vindicated!
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That said, I do miss him.

bigredfutbol · Dec 29, 2016

Dr. Wankler said: ↑

That Smith and Wesson .38 is the second-most seized gun? Someone might want to see if the Dalton Gang is back in business.
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There are/have been thousands of cheap S&W Model 10 .38 Specials floating around the used gun market for one reason--it was the sidearm of choice for many, I think even the majority, of law enforcement agencies and some private security organizations (I've heard Wells & Fargo guards carried it) for several decades. The Model 10 is like the Model T of revolvers--it's been in production, with some minor variations and a couple of name changes, since 1898. I believe it's the most widely-produced civilian handgun in the world.

Anyway, in recent decades, one law enforcement agency after another has switched over to semi-auto handguns--and they sell off their old Model 10's on the second-hand market.

As recently as two, three years ago, you could get a Model 10 for under 300 dollars.

VincitOmniaVeritas · Dec 29, 2016

For the mass shooting data you can always go here http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

It doesn't receive anywhere near the attention of mass shootings or gang violence, however over 60% of firearm deaths in America are suicides. I didn't know this until a few weeks ago but suicide is the second leading cause of death among white males ages 15-34.

ceezmad · Dec 29, 2016

VincitOmniaVeritas said: ↑

For the mass shooting data you can always go here http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

It doesn't receive anywhere near the attention of mass shootings or gang violence, however over 60% of firearm deaths in America are suicides. I didn't know this until a few weeks ago but suicide is the second leading cause of death among white males ages 15-34.
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I only wish smoking killed as quick as a bullet to the head.

dapip · Dec 30, 2016

VincitOmniaVeritas said: ↑

For the mass shooting data you can always go here http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

It doesn't receive anywhere near the attention of mass shootings or gang violence, 1. however over 60% of firearm deaths in America are suicides. 2. I didn't know this until a few weeks ago but suicide is the second leading cause of death among white males ages 15-34.
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1. We need stronger restrictions on gun ownership, specially a more thorough out background check, an extended cool down period and referrals to mental health.
2. So you are telling me that white people is killing themselves (with drugs too) and then blaming it on other people?

dapip · Dec 30, 2016

His last words were "just don't touch the saf..."...

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/12/...m-d-harmon-killed-in-gun-accident-police-say/

Police say Michael D. Harmon, 71, died at his home on Brunelle Avenue after a handgun he was showing to a teenage boy went off while the 16-year-old was handling it.

Harmon, a steadfast defender of gun rights and a champion of conservative viewpoints, was a longtime editor and columnist for the Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram. He worked for the newspaper for 41 years, and continued to write a weekly column after he retired in 2011.

VincitOmniaVeritas · Dec 30, 2016

dapip said: ↑

1. We need stronger restrictions on gun ownership, specially a more thorough out background check, an extended cool down period and referrals to mental health.
Click to expand...

Depends on what the restrictions are. More should be placed on the individual than the type of weapon or "scary" looking features that the weapon has (California). Mental health is the most important, yet seems to get looked over the most.

It may also help local and State PD's if they were able to trace guns to their origin without needing permission from ATF to do so. They have serial numbers from the seized firearms, they know or can find out very easily which FFLs these weapons are originating from. Take the seized firearms from the last 5-10 years, find out the FFLs that are the biggest offenders and put the pressure on them. Now you would need Federal cooperation for some of this since some of the FFLs are across state lines.

Next, LEO needs to find out if the owner/employees are lazily selling firearms without the proper steps, or if they are doing this intentionally and making "backroom" deals off the books and avoiding any background check at all. I don't think an FFL is going to be able to do the first and stay in business very long. A shady FFL making backroom deals might be more likely but I don't believe you could do this from a legitimate storefront for very long either. The inventory and sales of FFLs is known to ATF. If an FFL purchases 50 AR-15s from LMT the ATF can stop by later in the year and see if they were sold and if not how many are left in the inventory.

dapip said: ↑

2. So you are telling me that white people is killing themselves (with drugs too) and then blaming it on other people?
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Not sure what this means. I haven't heard anyone who has had someone close to them commit suicide blame it on gang violence in Chicago or on a specific race of people. Usually they blame it on drugs, PTSD, depression, and the people closest often blame themselves.

VincitOmniaVeritas · Dec 30, 2016

dapip said: ↑

His last words were "just don't touch the saf..."...

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/12/...m-d-harmon-killed-in-gun-accident-police-say/

Police say Michael D. Harmon, 71, died at his home on Brunelle Avenue after a handgun he was showing to a teenage boy went off while the 16-year-old was handling it.

Harmon, a steadfast defender of gun rights and a champion of conservative viewpoints, was a longtime editor and columnist for the Press Herald/Maine Sunday Telegram. He worked for the newspaper for 41 years, and continued to write a weekly column after he retired in 2011.
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Sad situation. Can't blame the teenager, it was Mr. Harmons fault. Unless he had some mental illness he should have known better. The first thing your taught is not to point your gun at anything you don't want to shoot, keep your finger off the trigger until you want to shoot and most importantly TREAT EVERY FIREARM AS IF IT IS LAODED. These rules become even more important when your are dealing with someone who has never held or manipulated a firearm.

dapip · Dec 30, 2016

VincitOmniaVeritas said: ↑

Depends on what the restrictions are. More should be placed on the individual than the type of weapon or "scary" looking features that the weapon has (California). Mental health is the most important, yet seems to get looked over the most.
Click to expand...

I think it needs a comprehensive approach. There are some pros to prevent certain type of weapons to become common, especially if you look at it from LEO's perspective. I don't think that hunters need a lot of rapid firing or huge size magazines (I do understand that such features can be changed in the after-market). But it is a series of measures that put together would bring some control over the incredible amount of gun deaths we have in this country. Comprehensive insurance and mandatory (and continuous) education are also needed.

It may also help local and State PD's if they were able to trace guns to their origin without needing permission from ATF to do so. They have serial numbers from the seized firearms, they know or can find out very easily which FFLs these weapons are originating from. Take the seized firearms from the last 5-10 years, find out the FFLs that are the biggest offenders and put the pressure on them. Now you would need Federal cooperation for some of this since some of the FFLs are across state lines.

Next, LEO needs to find out if the owner/employees are lazily selling firearms without the proper steps, or if they are doing this intentionally and making "backroom" deals off the books and avoiding any background check at all. I don't think an FFL is going to be able to do the first and stay in business very long. A shady FFL making backroom deals might be more likely but I don't believe you could do this from a legitimate storefront for very long either. The inventory and sales of FFLs is known to ATF. If an FFL purchases 50 AR-15s from LMT the ATF can stop by later in the year and see if they were sold and if not how many are left in the inventory.
Click to expand...

Closing loopholes and a cool down period (say 30 days) can also help, allowing for better background checks and probably scaring away a big portion of straw purchases

Not sure what this means. I haven't heard anyone who has had someone close to them commit suicide blame it on gang violence in Chicago or on a specific race of people. Usually they blame it on drugs, PTSD, depression, and the people closest often blame themselves.
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It was a bad pun on WWC. Reading it again it was not funny at all.

Moishe · Dec 30, 2016

VincitOmniaVeritas said: ↑

Depends on what the restrictions are. More should be placed on the individual than the type of weapon or "scary" looking features that the weapon has (California). Mental health is the most important, yet seems to get looked over the most.

It may also help local and State PD's if they were able to trace guns to their origin without needing permission from ATF to do so. They have serial numbers from the seized firearms, they know or can find out very easily which FFLs these weapons are originating from. Take the seized firearms from the last 5-10 years, find out the FFLs that are the biggest offenders and put the pressure on them. Now you would need Federal cooperation for some of this since some of the FFLs are across state lines.

Next, LEO needs to find out if the owner/employees are lazily selling firearms without the proper steps, or if they are doing this intentionally and making "backroom" deals off the books and avoiding any background check at all. I don't think an FFL is going to be able to do the first and stay in business very long. A shady FFL making backroom deals might be more likely but I don't believe you could do this from a legitimate storefront for very long either. The inventory and sales of FFLs is known to ATF. If an FFL purchases 50 AR-15s from LMT the ATF can stop by later in the year and see if they were sold and if not how many are left in the inventory.

Not sure what this means. I haven't heard anyone who has had someone close to them commit suicide blame it on gang violence in Chicago or on a specific race of people. Usually they blame it on drugs, PTSD, depression, and the people closest often blame themselves.
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Rep for the LMT reference. My current build has a 16 inch stainless steel Lewis Machine barrel. You pay dearly for LMT products but you definitely get what you pay for.

VincitOmniaVeritas · Dec 30, 2016

Moishe said: ↑

Rep for the LMT reference. My current build has a 16 inch stainless steel Lewis Machine barrel. You pay dearly for LMT products but you definitely get what you pay for.
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I have had a 16" MRP for a few years now and it is fantastic. Around this time last year a buddy made me an offer I couldn't refuse and I picked up a MWS. It is the nicest toy I have ever owned.

Moishe · Dec 30, 2016

VincitOmniaVeritas said: ↑

I have had a 16" MRP for a few years now and it is fantastic. Around this time last year a buddy made me an offer I couldn't refuse and I picked up a MWS. It is the nicest toy I have ever owned.
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You are a person of refined taste. This current build is a frankengun made up of BCM, Noveske, Geiselle, the aforementioned LMT barrel. In about a month I should take possession of an HK lower. I also lived for a few years across the street from Mark Larue's buddy which got me an OBR for $500 under cost with the condition that I would donate the difference to charity. Done and done!

There is definitely an upside to being a childless, gainfully employed 48 year old bachelor.

ceezmad · Jan 5, 2017

A study by the Journal of American Medicine suggests stand-your-ground laws result in more fatal shootings https://t.co/mA6ba8e7ME
— The Economist (@TheEconomist) January 5, 2017

Journal of the American Medical Association appears to vindicate those fears. Soon after the law took effect in Florida, there was a sudden and sustained 24% jump in the monthly homicide rate. The rate of homicides involving firearms increased by 32%. The authors found that in states without a stand-your-ground law over the same time period those rates remained flat
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http://www.economist.com/news/unite...4-after-introducing-one?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/rfd/pe

Funkfoot · Jan 6, 2017

Surprising absolutely no one.

fatbastard · Jan 6, 2017

Not sure which shooting thread this one belong in just yet .....

Video released from inside Fort Lauderdale airport baggage claim area pic.twitter.com/QVfWnhhNiE
— WSVN 7 News (@wsvn) January 6, 2017

Funkfoot · Jan 6, 2017

I get pissed off at baggage claims, too.