One of my proposed solutions for improving the USMNT is having a fulltime Olympic/B team that plays in the same window the A team plays in. Perhaps an assistant is the head coach of this team, but these players stay in close proximity of the senior team. The purpose is to help introduce younger players into the senior team who may not be just there yet while also helping build the Olympic team. More so, they play within the international dates. So, for instance, if the senior team plays on Saturday and again on Tuesday, the Olympic/B team would play on Sunday or Monday. Who would they play? Ideally, we can set up good competition; however, worst case scenario, even if it was against a NASL or USL side, it still would be good to get the team use to playing with each other and getting use to the USMNT system. I’ll add that Olympic/B team is while the majority of players need to be Olympic eligible, that’s not set in stone. In fact, we may start off all new players here, except in special cases (your Pulisic’s, McKennie’s, etc). ————- So, let’s say we call in, for example, on our next international date: Senior team; GK Horvath, Hamid, Gonzalez/Steffen DF Yedlin, Moore, Garza, K. Acosta, Carter-Vickers, Miazga, Brooks, Parker MF Gonzalez, McKennie, Roldan, Adams, Delgado, Williams, Pulisic, Gooch, Arriola FW Wood, Dwyer, Sapong ————Wood————- Pulisic——————Arriola -McKennie———Adams—- ————JoGo—————— Acosta———————Yedlin ——Brooks——Miazga—- —————Hamid————- Olympic/B team GK Garces, Bono*, Klinsmann DF A. Robinson, Vincent*, D. Acosta, Zimmermann*, Glad, Palmer-Brown, Redding, Polster*, Nerwinski* MF Parks, Torres, Scott, De la Torre, Carleton, Lennon, Pomykal, Saucedo, Lewis, Taitague FW Weah, Sargent, Novakovich, Vasquez, Wright ———-Sargent—Wright———- Carleton———————Lennon ———-Torres——-Parks———- Robinson———————Polster ———Palmer-Brown-Glad——— ——————Bono—————— In essence, what we accomplish in this hypothetical Camp is getting exposure to guys like Torres, Parks, Robinson, and others; even maybe let an older player like Polster see if he is someone we can rely on. Without a camp, somewhat like this, I don’t see how we can take some risks on some players that we don’t know much about yet. More so, with this proposed League of Nations, we need some opportunity to experiment.
I don't see the point. I think it'll do more bad than good, it'll take players away from their club teams at an age where they are trying to earn first team roles. And the games will mean nothing.
I’d that’s the case then there’s no point in any youth team. Also, these would be typically be players more established with their clubs than u20s. And, that’s why there would be roster rotation. Lastly, the games would have about as much meaning as friendlies do today... giving an opportunity to field a team that we think can be helpful moving forward. For instance, one date I could call in: GK Steffen*, Garces DF Nerwinski*, Vincent*, Glad, Palmer-Brown, Trusty, Olosunde MF Parks, Scott, Lennon, Taitague, Carleton, De la Torre FW Wright, Sargent, Ramirez*, Ebobisse The next: GK Gonzalez*, Klinsmann DF Polster*, A. Robinson, D. Acosta, Redding, M. Robinson, Glad MF Scott, Torres, Trapp*, Lewis, Taitague, Pomykal FW Weah, Vasquez, Green*, Novakovich* ....the rotation doesn’t have to be that much, but just to demonstrate that the coach can still manage if a player is in a delicate club situation. I don’t see where a guy like Paxton Pomykal is going to be set back his whole career from attending a camp during an international date to get him use to senior team. If anything, that would help launch his career; similar to how January Camp’s have always been useful in acclimating new players into the team historically. I can see the argument for a Jonathan Amon or Keaton Parks who are just now starting to emerge on their club’s first team...but you monitor those situations case by case. Nonetheless, even if they were called up ever so often... that’s not going to be the sole factor that damaged a player’s career. On the other hand, it could be an opportunity to impress and make headway into the senior team - which would be great for a player’s career.
That said, the point: Give chances to players who otherwise would not be brought into the system. January Camp has been the be all in bringing new players into camp. And, with more and more vets returning to MLS even those opportunities are getting smaller. Break up favoritism - as young players are brought in and evaluated face to face, they earn the coach’s trust and get pushed into the senior team. This gives the coach a little more rope in juggling playing the best team every chance vs preparing the team for the future. Prepared for the Olympics. Obviously what we have been doing hasn’t been working, and that’s often because we wait until qualifying to throw the pieces all together. This way, we start building years in advance. Player evaluation. Somewhat repeating myself here, but want to make sure this is abundantly clear. It’s one thing to scout a player in someone else’s system, it’s a whole other thing to bring a player into our system. Granted, we don’t want to call in players just yet who are scratching their way onto the first team (Parks, Amon, etc) but it’s still a case by case scenario. That said, we need to still see where this player is at. Is he close to the senior team level or is he not? The only way to truly tell is to have eyes on, face to face, under our umbrella.
While I understand the appeal, on a practical level I can't imagine a single club (and definitely not any in Europe) releasing players to participate and they could not be compelled to do so as this would not be covered under the current Player Release regulations.
I've been arguing for the U23 cycle to start early by naming a coach ASAP. And we can probably start finding opponents to play games with players eligible for the 2020 Olympic qualifying campaign. Even if that's just Mexico, Canada, etc. to start with. This was actually one aspect of the US program that Klinsmann got right. He wanted more of a full-time Olympic U23 program, and they did focus on it more than the previous cycle. Herzog was named the coach and they had camps, games, etc. early than the previous cycle under Porter. But almost from the beginning Klinsmann was worried about this group, calling them the "lost generation." It turned out to be the case. They failed in their Olympic qualifying effort. And not enough of those players became important USMNT contributors. There were a lot of Luis Gil's in that group. Now..................posters are correct that you won't always get players released from Europe or Mexico for these U23 camps. [Clubs aren't even required to release players for the Olympic qualifiers aka the CONCACAF U23 Championships.] However, you can certainly start expanding the domestic pool.
If clubs want to be a jerk about it then just schedule a third friendly in the international date and call it the A team. Still, worst case scenario is we should be able to easily force MLS to oblige us...
You don't even need to "force" the domestic teams. There are VERY few instances of MLS clubs turning down callups for international play, whether its senior or youth national teams. Even for non-USMNTers.................. I will note that there's already concern being registered on the youth boards that a large number of our U23 players won't be available for Olympic qualifying. In the previous cycle it was really just Yedlin and Brooks that weren't released. In this upcoming event you could be missing the top 10 players. Its too far into the future to know which domestic players like Tyler Adams will be playing in Europe..............but we do know its highly unlikely the Pulisic, McKennie, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Palmer-Brown, Sargent, etc. types will be available. We HAVE to take the expansion of the pool seriously. So even if we can't get the Euro-based youngsters to your U23/B camp, at least you can really provide opportunities to domestic players. Justen Glad is a great example. He's not yet in the USMNT, but it would be great to get him into U23 setup until he is. And you can easily fill the gaps with NCAAers the USSF scouts think have high potential. I was actually a proponent of the U23 cycle starting the second the 2017 U20 World Cup was over. We should have a coach named and camps/games already scheduled. As it is, I'll bet everybody that Mexico has a U23 coach named and camps scheduled weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell before we do. [I realize we're probably waiting until we name a USMNT coach........................]
I would just play the Olympic squad as the "A" team period from now until 2020. Call up the best players who are U23 eligible for Japan 2020 and maybe rotate 3 different over -age guys each FIFA Date.
Of this group of 27, how many do you think could leave every international break and not have their role at their club effected at all? I'd argue more than half of them would. In theory, its a nice idea, but we often see it work counter to the interests of these players because they end up having their club situation effected.
That’s what I’m saying... they don’t necessarily have to be called up to every camp. It’s on a case by case scenario. On some cases, our couch might just call up a player for one time for the u23’s evaluate him and only come back later if it’s appropriate - particularly the abroad based players. If you were to say would one or two call ups, perhaps in a year, would jeapordize their position then I would say it would have zero to absolutely minimal impact. As far as MLS players, I’d hold Garber accountable on that and put all the clubs under the fire... I don’t see it happening but MLS clubs shouldn’t be a problem. More, although I listed 27, I’d say call up only 18 unless some of those filler players are promising college players or something close to that.
I could make a hypothetical projection of every call up, I might make, in a calendar year.... please, note that I have full understanding that things change drastically in a year and no one can possible predict every single roster accurately for a year. But I want to demonstrate how the roster can be diverse yet still work towards building a cohesive unit. .... 2018 calendar January Camp, large MLS roster, the Olympic/B team mixed in with seniors, * = Olympic age GK Steffen, Bono, Gonzalez, Johnson DF Nerwinski, Polster, Rosenberry, Farfan*, D. Acosta*, Vincent, Garza, Glad*, Redding*, Zimmermann, Parker, Long, Opara, M. Robinson* MF Adams*, Trapp, Delgado, Roldan, Acosta, Durkin*, Goslin*, Jones*, Lewis*, Lennon*, Rowe, Nagbe, Arriola, Lletget, Manneh, Carleton*, Saucedo* FW Sapong, Morris, Ramirez, Dwyer, Pomykal*, Vasquez*, Ebobisse* About a week into camp, break off 18 or so players to form the Olympic/B team; heavier focus on u23s (ones that don’t project to start for the senior team) and some of the other non-Olympic age who are just off from starting. Projected: GK Bono*, Johnson* DF Rosenberry*, Farfan, D. Acosta, Redding, Long*, Robinson MF Durkin, Goslin, Jones, Lewis, Lennon, Carleton, Saucedo FW Pomykal, Vasquez, Ebobisse —— * = over Olympic age March, FIFA date GK Garces, Vom Steeg, J. Gonzalez* DF Glad, Redding, Trusty, D. Acosta, Payne*, Rosenberry*, Cannon MF Parks, Torres, Scott, Taitague, Akale, Amon, De la Torre, Carleton FW Siebatcheu*, Wright, Weah, Pomykal June, summer/World Cup GK Klinsmann, Scott, Austin DF Glad, Redding, Palmer-Brown, M. Robinson, Olosunde, Fossey, Dest MF Parks, Torres, Hyndman*, Zelalem, Scott, Taitague, Akale, Amon, De la Torre FW Siebatcheu*, Wright, Weah, Perez, Sargent September, FIFA date GK Steffen*, Silva, Garces DF Glad, Redding, Trusty, Sands, D. Acosta, Cannon, Polster* MF Kitchen*, Delgado*, Goslin, Lennon, Lewis, Lletget*, Carleton, Saucedo FW Ramirez*, Vasquez, Ebobisse, Busio October, FIFA date GK J. Gonzalez*, Scott, Las DF Trusty, M. Robinson, Sands, Durkin, Farfan, Lindsey, Fossey, Dest MF Torres, Booth, Jones, Yeuill, Stanko*, Amon, Saucedo, Lewis FW Boyd*, Novakovich*, Pomykal, Gaines November, FIFA date GK Steffen*, Garces, Silva DF Glad, Redding, K. Ford*, Durkin, D. Acosta, Bello, Olosunde, Nerwinski* MF Parks, Zelalem, Mihailovic, Williamson, Canouse*, Akale, Taitague, Carleton FW Vasquez, Weah, Wright, Pynadath ....In short, there’s enough here to do some serious rotation. When a Juan Torres can’t make a call up, hell call in Joel Sonora to take his place. The purpose is to launch players to the next stage or just see where a player is at. It’s meant to be used to get players some exposure to the USMNT environment, and hopefully work towards building a system that doesn’t get as stagnate as the 2018 team.
Sure. I think the idea of calling this a "B" team isn't quite right. We should take our U23 program a lot more seriously. We all know that a gap in the domestic programs (MLS and otherwise) is the opportunity for players between the ages of 18 and 23. More opportunities for these youngsters would be really beneficial. We seem to think we can just throw together our U23 program and run thru CONCACAF U23 qualifying. Prior to the last cycle, we really did throw it together at the last minute. Caleb Porter had very few camps and opportunities to construct his team prior to the qualifying effort. We apparently thought the talent of the players alone would get us thru. Fail. BIG FAIL. So we did take it more seriously with the most recent cycle, naming Herzog in advance. But it still seemed somewhat like an afterthought. We sorta all saw the 2016 failure coming, and let it happen. If we want to qualify for the Olympics we need to take the U23 level more seriously. We should already have a coach in place (interim or otherwise), and he should already be planning his first camp of players eligible for the 2020 CONCACAF U23 Championships for January. Yes, some of those guys will be at the USMNT camp. But not a lot (Adams, Glad, etc.). What would be wrong exactly with a U23 camp in January/February with a bunch of the players not at the USMNT camp? That way players like say.....................Ebobisse, Danny Acosta, Tommy Redding, Derrick Jones, Eryk Williamson, Brooks Lennon, Lagos Kunga, Sebastian Saucedo, Jackson Yueill, Cam Lindley, Jonathan Lewis, Auston Trusty, Miles Robinson (the list goes on ad naseum) have an opportunity to be part of US programs. These are players too old for a U20 camp, but not yet contenders for the USMNT. Heck, we can probably schedule a game or two on an international date in Europe that we can convince clubs to release Euro players for........................as nations are preparing for Euro U21 championships or whatever. I just think our U23 efforts are really half-assed. Half-assed isn't going to get it done anymore in CONCACAF, much less at the Olympics.
If this was a strictly u23 team; which I still wish we would do basically a u23 + some overage players... but this is the pool. *** = not ever going to call in. ** = would be a stretch to call in. * = YA but still have a good chance to call in as not a senior player for club No asterisk means we should be able to call in whenever. Goalkeepers Jonathan Klinsmann* (Hertha Berlin) Brady Scott* (Cologne) Brandon Austin* (Tottenham Hotspur) CJ Dos Santos* (Benfica) - Justin Garces (Atlanta United) Justin Vom Steeg (LA Galaxy) Damian Las (Chicago Fire) Bennett Sneddon (LA Galaxy) JT Marcinkowski (unattached) Kevin Silva (unattached) Right Backs Matthew Olosunde* (Manchester United) Marlon Fossey* (Fulham) Sergino Dest* (Ajax Amsterdam) Kyle Duncan* (Valencennie) —— Reggie Cannon (FC Dallas) Jaylin Lindsey (Sporting Kansas City) Hugo Arellano (LA Galaxy) John Hilton (LA Galaxy) Harold Hanson (Portland Timbers) Left Backs Danilo Acosta (Real Salt Lake) Marco Farfan (Portland Timbers) Chris Gloster (New York Red Bull) George Bello (Atlanta United) Jake Arteaga (LA Galaxy) Center Backs Niall Mason* (Doncaster Rovers) Kyle Gruno* (Leicester City) —- Justin Glad (Real Salt Lake) Tommy Redding (Orlando City) Miles Robinson (Atlanta United) Auston Trusty (Philadelphia Union) Chris Durkin (DC United) James Sands (New York City FC) Jean-Julian Nuphaus Foe (SJ Earthquakes) Samuel Rogers (Seattle Sounders) Joseph Scally (New York City FC) Nathan Toledo (FC Dallas) Carlos Asensio (Atlanta United) Akil Watts (Portland Timbers) George Marks (North Carolina FC) Tyler Shaver (New York City FC) Tomas Hollings-Arce (unattached) Julian Araujo (unattached) Midfielders Tyler Adams*** (New York Red Bull’s) Weston McKennie*** (Schalke) Jonathan Gonzalez*** (Monterrey) —— Juan Torres** (Lokeren) Keaton Parks** (Benfica) —— Kyle Scott* (Chelsea) Gedion Zelalem* (Arsenal) —— Derrick Jones (Philadelphia Union) Djordje Mihailovic (Chicago Fire) Chris Goslin (Atlanta United) Giovanni Reyna (New York City FC) Eryk Williamson (unattached) George Acosta (unattached) Blaine Ferri (unattached) Wan Kamal (Sporting Kansas City) Adrian Vera (LA Galaxy) Amirgy Pineda (Orange County) Zach Kobayashi (Orange County) Att/Wingers: Christian Pulisic*** (Dortmund) ___ Luca De la Torre** (Fulham) Jonathan Amon** (FC Nordsjælland) —— Nick Taitague* (Schalke) Mukwalle Akale* (Villarreal) —- Jonathan Lewis (New York City FC) Brooks Lennon (Real Salt Lake) Paxton Pomykal (FC Dallas) Andrew Carleton (Atlanta United) Eric Calvillo (NY Red Bull) Ulysses Lanez (LA Galaxy) Jackson Yeuill (SJ Earthquakes) Taylor Booth (Real Salt Lake) Coy Craft (FC Dallas) Michael Pellegrino (Philadelphia Union) Lagos Kunga (Atlanta United) Sebastian Saucedo (Real Salt Lake) Efrain Alvarez (LA Galaxy) Collin Fernandez (Chicago Fire) Indiana Vassilev (Unattached) Forwards Haji Wright** (Sandhausen) —- Timothy Tillman* (Bayern Munich) Timothy Weah* (Paris SG) Josh Sargent* (Werder Bremen) McKenzie Gaines* (Darmstadt) Konrad De la Fuente* (Barcelona) Josh Pynadath* (Ajax Amsterdam) Joshua Perez* (Livorno) Isaiah Young* (Werder Bremen) Emmanuel Sabbi* (Las Palmas) Kai Koreniuk* (Vitesse Arnhem) Jacobo Reyes* (Monterrey) —— Ayo Akinola (Toronto FC) Jeremy Ebobisse (Portland Timbers) Brandon Vasquez (Atlanta United) Gianluca Busio (Sporting Kansas City) Jesus Ferreira (FC Dallas) Pierre Da Silva (Orlando City) Bryan Reynolds (FC Dallas) Alfonso Ocampo-Chavez (Seattle Sounders) Bryan Padilla (FC Dallas) Sebastian Soto (Real Salt Lake) Joe Gallardo (Orlando City) Zyen Jones (Atlanta United) Tyler Feeley (St Louis) Christian Lucatero (Houston Dynamo) Giovanni Cilaxtro (Portland Timbers) Ethan Zubak (LA Galaxy)