A dumb (and loaded) question ...

Discussion in 'High School' started by CornfieldSoccer, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You want to keep building on the game you already have. If you don't even if you play a good game. Teams that play you all the time will get an occasional win or draw because familiarity can lead to that result.

    I used to think if it is not broken don't fix it. Then a coach told me if it is not broken then brake it and make it better. That was one of the best pieces of advice I ever got from another coach.
     
  2. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Well I am….and have been since I first starting talking about this….I feel like all I am doing is repeating myself at his point and probably not to my benefit…

    It’s not just about training players, it’s about expanding the popularity of soccer beyond just watching the WC every 4 years or watching foreign teams/leagues…. It about allowing our best young soccer players to actually compete in and have fun in platforms that average Americans cares about…nobody, outside the insulator world of DA soccer, cares about two DA teams playing against each other…two rival High School’s playing any sport, and you will draw crowds and community interest….

    Setting policies that bypasses and diminish HS soccer will do nothing to make Soccer less foreign and elite; it will solidify such opinions and feelings…

    Allowing our top soccer players to play HS golf does nothing to improve the health or popularity of soccer…not to mention, I think the definition of “top player” is overly generous…
     
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  3. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Hmmm....

    So the Johnsons never played soccer but their son does. He managed to get on Varsity as a Junior and today is a Senior. Through high school play he has become popular based on his skills on the field.

    Is that the goal?

    And/Or

    Through watching their son play, the Johnsons have developed a respect and passion for the game as well and now watch the World Cup... I mean if it startes there I can pretty much assure you that parents as a whole are not going to go home and upgrade their Comcast to watch soccer 24/7.

    I would argue that we need to change the perception of youth soccer - at the rec level, to more than just a sport where young kids can run around and blow off steam - a place holder before football or something to do alongside baseball or cheer. More focus on the rec levels to explain the game, player development in terms of is your 8 year old having fun and improving - generating a passion, rather then winning.

    Embracing the individual part of the sport over the team component at the younger ages. Coaching development that is continuous - yada - yada - yada...

    The things that help parents recognize what they should be looking for to gauge success and embrace that passion that their player is what will drive parents and the sport more then this revelation when their kid is 17 of how great it is. That will educate them early on about the game.

    It's not rocket science - it does not require a USSF certified coach. It just needs to be re-defined so that parents can understand more about the game.

    This is were USSF, USYouth and USClub have all failed badly IMO.
     
  4. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    As expected my repeating myself has simply invited smartass, myopic responses…

    First, Americans are not going to embrace a sport that defers meaningful competition to such a ridiculous degree…this idea that it is all development all the time, above all else, until our top players reach the promise land of international completion is not going to fly…

    Rec is just the start, an important one, I would agree; one that I would assume little Johnson Jr played as well…but there is a whole equally important middle between there and pro/international play…a middle that US Soccer thinks it can just ignore and skip right over…that same middle that many American are passionate about, almost regardless of the sport…and it isn’t club sports…

    Grab your local newspaper, open the sports section and take a look…if your paper is anything like mine and millions of others, it will be filled with stories and articles regarding the local High School sports scene… club sports, not so much. Why? Because people care about high school sports; it’s our tradition and culture…it is very, and maybe uniquely, American…Do you really not understand this?

    The perception soccer is not helped by a bunch of arrogant, soccer snubs thumbing their nose at High School and treating “winning” as a dirty word….

    At some point, it needs to be ok for our soccer kids actually enjoy what sports is supposed to be about…namely, competition…not just development for boring-ass sake of development…is it the sport of soccer or merely the practice of soccer?
     
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  5. keeper dad

    keeper dad Member

    Jun 24, 2011
    To this Wulf's point, this thread had me thinking about my son's high school soccer program and I tried to do some research to see who from his school was signed/signing to play in college. While this data is not really consolidated anywhere based on the high school it was more difficult than I thought. What I did find, through got soccer, was that there are 3 players from his school that are not playing on the high school team, ostensibly because they are in the DA. I can say that I had never heard of these kids before, largely because they are playing in relative anonymity in the DA. This is from the high school that won the state title this past fall and will most likely be the favorite to win again this fall, so there are still plenty of talented players playing that didn't "need" the DA kids. I was just struck by the fact that these guys have forgone the "glory" of their high school peers and being BMOC for the DA and college scholarships. I'm not saying that the scholarship isn't worth something, I just wonder how different their high school years may have been if their talents were recognized/celebrated. But as we have said, they made the choice or more likely their parents made it for them, the question is "is there a way for them to have both?" I think someone owes it to them to try and find a way.
     
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  6. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    As I read this I find myself wondering whether in some places, like the town where I live, that BMOC factor for high school soccer might be pretty minimal.

    I'm in a good-sized town a couple of hours south of Chicago, and this is very much basketball country. After that, football, baseball and, for girls, softball and volleyball, get the vast majority of the attention. And some school administrators -- certainly not all, but some key ones -- make clear they consider soccer to still be well outside the mainstream and a drain on resources and athletic talent (I had an interesting exchange last weekend at a track meet with the father of another school's track coach who complained that soccer had "ruined" cross country and distance running in track at their school by siphoning off athletes -- cross country and boys' soccer seasons are concurrent in Illinois).

    There's a decent soccer community here, but from what I can tell the folks showing up to watch high school soccer are still parents and girlfriends or boyfriends. I'm sure the high school kids who do play take pride in representing their school -- my oldest son certainly does in track and cross country with the same low level of recognition, and as I mentioned back at the start of this, I'm sure my youngest will play soccer for his school -- but I'm not sure the incentives here to represent your school are much greater than they would be to play for your club (particularly if you've been part of the same club for a long time, as will likely be the case for my son).

    I don't disagree with the idea, though, that there should be a way for kids to do both and have that full range of experiences if they want to.
     
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  7. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Wow. :rolleyes:

    Yet professional soccer is one of the few growing sports in the United States. Did high school play drive that?

    But you seem to be saying that middle ground should be at 15-18 years old... Have you ever coached travel soccer at a decent level? Do you have any idea how often u14 players come to a club and have to essentially start over because they were never instructed on the fundementals properly from the get go? Have you ever had to do that with an entire team?

    The high school environment (for the most part) is all about winning with what you got - less any real development (gross there is that word you hate).

    It's certainly fun to watch - lots of cheering and great for social popularity for sure. That's great but that being such a benefit excludes the possiblity that a DA/ECNL may be playing in another h/s sport and may have decided to player DA/ECNL over h/s soccer. Something which has been mentioned already.

    I did not take the thread as being how awesome high school soccer is - that's about all your contribution has been here - despite me trying to get more from you. So yeah I understand that but I was sort of hoping for deeper thought. You sound like you just bitching at this point because DA is not in your area or that maybe you are concerned that your son is not competing against the best or all the best??? I don't know? Why do you care? You have another thread about where you are now with HS and sound happy so I guess I assumed this was more to do about how to fix it rather then constantly insulting DA/USSF, or providing for ideas which could move the conversation forward. Do you have a younger child who faces this challenge or are you generally concerned - if so how about some ideas???

    Winning is important - no one said it should not be. But winning being the focus from u6-u11 is what's killing soccer.

    Competition starts at u12 - you would know that if you bothered to ask. Development is continuous.[/QUOTE]
     
  8. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    No doubt HS soccer plays 2nd or 3rd fiddle in a lot of cases…try competing with 6 State football titles in 7 years; to say I live in football country is a bit of an understatement….the siren song of Football is very strong in these parts; although it usually peals kids off way before HS…if they are still playing soccer by 8th grade; they’re usually pretty committed…

    Not to say that soccer isn’t well regarded in my area, just at a lower level…helped no doubt by a couple State Titles on the girls side and a couple playoff appearances/3rd place finishes on the boys side… some other schools in the area have had varying degrees of success as well…

    Win the President’s Cup and nobody much outside your club will care…and those that do, will probably do so only to remind you it’s a 2nd tier, money grab…

    Make it to or win State, and your talking pep rallies, community support, newspaper articles, etc, not to mention, a nice shiny metal highway sign coming into town….regardless of how much some School Administrations thumb their nose up at the sport…winning is mainstream...;)
     
  9. keeper dad

    keeper dad Member

    Jun 24, 2011
    This got me thinking more about soccer being second fiddle in high schools. Granted we are in the Chicago area and the high school has every possible sport (including bass fishing) that Illinois offers and I have to say, at least in our case soccer is very much in the BMOC conversation. The 4 year soccer starter, that plays for a large Naperville club as opposed to a DA, has routinely been the homecoming/prom king, every girls dream date for 4 years. He has signed to play division 1 and got there without the DA, it is possible.

    In terms of the glory I also think about the "signing day" experience where there is a pep rally or some other photo op covered by the local press. I know last year a swimmer did not compete for the high school (disagreement with the coach) and when it came time to sign her letter of intent the school said no to hosting the event, because she didn't compete for the school. Again this is a small example of the glory but I would imagine that these 3 DA kids will also be denied the at school event. Sure the DA can have a signing ceremony with all of the other players but who knows about it? Certainly not their peers in school who would be impressed and interested in a Division 1 signing as they are with other sports.
     
  10. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Unlikely…but without high school being a part, I think future growth is limited…

    No, to all your questions….and so what…it is your stance we can’t move passed rec soccer until its perfected? Not going to happen, but things are getting better…this ain’t the 1980’s anymore…we are starting to see 2nd generation soccer parents who actually know and can teach youth fundamentals…just like in football, baseball and basketball…far more important then a USSF whitepaper on how we need be just like country X....
    No argument there…but for MOST DA/ECNL kids those few months of HS soccer aren’t going to change a damn thing….they are still just going to end up playing college ball….

    I would like think my initial comment was optimistic if not somewhat naïve….I do believe, as stated from the get go, that both club and HS have something to offer….at no point did I say or imply HS was better than club soccer; merely that HS offers something different, something that can’t be found at the club level…there are benefits to be found in HS soccer both for the individual and for the soccer community at large….you are more than entitled to disagree; just wish you would stop pretending to not understand the argument…it is not my intention to oversell HS soccer; I know it’s not perfect (and once again, believe I have stated as much multiple times)…more a reaction on my part as to what I see as people unduly bashing it imo….

    I believe I have made myself very clear on this matter…I believe the HS/Club split model is more than adequate to prepare kids for college, far more equitable and fair, and in the long will expand the popularity of soccer in general…I have given many examples in this thread as to why I believe the way I do…your only counter seems to be to claim I don’t know what I am talking about…

    Maybe we should just agree to disagree at this point…

    Once again, at no point did I say winning should be important prior to HS…a big part of my argument is that HS is the appropriate place that winning should begin to matter…

    Bothered to ask? What a joke…as I have said a dozen times it’s about meaningful competition, where it begins and how we define it….
     
  11. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    I would agree that most parents make that decision - but not all do.

    That said - they can find "glory" in other sports in h/s if they want and if they (player) chooses to forgo h/s soccer then I think there is a responsibility for the parent to engage them in another sport where they can experience this. I played tennis all 4 years varsity as the #1 doubles and #2 singles player - soccer I was a varsity 3 years. I was a no one before that so while I recognize the popularity and general great emotional trip one gets from all this, I still want my youngest to have the option.

    To bolster that, I sent an email out 2 weeks ago to most of my players who started out in rec years ago and are now scattered amongst a variety of clubs playing 05/06. That email was an invite to watch our h/s Varsity games on the football field in order to get a feel of what's in store.

    Last year I saw boys with players names and numbers painted on their chests - out on the track ring with poms cheering. That was a blast and something they should see.
     
  12. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    So I think it depends on the region/area. I grew up in farm country and soccer was not even a sport to be had. My parents had to move in order for me to play soccer and my sister to be in very serious gymnastics. I remember my first day of school in a more populated area - got my Cat Diesel Power cap flushed down a toilet!

    The town I came from there would be no glory from soccer. The town I moved to - just the opposite.

    So it's definately not a one size fits all.
     
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  13. keeper dad

    keeper dad Member

    Jun 24, 2011
    Volk, I don't think our opinions are that far apart. I agree although while realizing the DA does not ban other HS sports the same way they do soccer, I have seen first hand how difficult it is to manage. When my son was a freshman he played HS soccer in the fall, one week break to club soccer 3 day a week indoor training (Saturday Futsal) along with HS swimming (2 practices a day and meets throughout the week), to outdoor club soccer (same general schedule as indoor) and HS water polo (same basics as swimming).

    Something had to give. On club soccer days he was out the door at 5am and not home until 9:30pm and still had to fit schoolwork in. Neither side of the equation (HS or club) was willing to bend as they all felt he had a commitment to their team (they were right).

    Ultimately soccer lost out and I think he is happy with his choice, although unless they win the state water polo title this year the state soccer title this year will make him envious. This is the problem I see with the DA time constraints and trying to play any other HS sport. Maybe the answer is to ban everything else for the best and brightest in a free to play DA, I think it is fair; however I also think that allowing a couple of months for HS soccer (same activity) is something that could/should be explored, for social reasons if nothing else.
     
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  14. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    It's also more difficult when your player is in multiple sports. Wasn't his H2O Polo a club based organization as well? I may have remebered wrong - but 3 sports is a ton. My oldest was starting keeper as a freshman, played NPL during the season, cross country, track, basketball and evenutally volleyball.

    That was painful to watch - always tired, struggling to get school work done. She pulled out of soccer after her sophmore year - both club and h/s. Pulled out of basketball as well and hammed down on grades - graduating a half year early. Looking back it was to much though. I won't let my youngest do that.

    There has to be some guidance from the parent. I go with a simple formula.

    - School Grades
    - 2 sports (max) only one can be club and that takes priority
    - 1 music

    That could change to 2 music and 1 sport as well...

    We'll see where that takes us but come high school as far as soccer is concerned (if shes still playing) it will be up to her. If she's not filler I may have her think carefully - but it's definately her decision.

    Love for her to stay in DA/ECNL but clearly knowing the costs... I would love to take a few extra vacations as well!
     
  15. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I have to say, I find this argument somewhat unconvincing…we want these kids to love soccer coming out of rec; want them to work very hard over their pre-teen years improving their talent and skills, and then when they hit High School, we make them choose between what they love; what they are really good at, and what’s available?

    Despite the anecdotal evidence presented, I am a bit skeptical this is really a viable and satisfactory answer to many…especially in this day of specialization and hyper-competitiveness for roster spots across most sports in high school…

    Even if most youngers start out playing a multitude of sports, by their pre-teens, many will begin to specialize or focus on that one sport that they love and are good at…I assume this applies to most DA kids as well….

    So these soccer kids, who have spent their pre-teen years focusing on soccer, come High School, are now supposed to complete, just to make the team, with kids who have spent their pre-teen years focusing on their particular sport?

    Athletic or not, that would seem like a tall order, especially at HS of any decent size…
     
  16. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well...that's because it is, unless you have an extraordinary high school coach. Most don't.

    True, but the point of the DA is to develop better players at the top of the pyramid, not to make high school teams better.

    But that said I think you're overstating the impact of the DA on high school soccer. Keep in mind that the vast majority of DA teams are phased out after the U14 level, and the players who either stay on or join a higher level DA team probably have larger goals in mind than high school anyway.

    My son is a 2002 and is playing in the DA this year so had to skip soccer his freshman year of high school along with most of his team (and about a third of the team is still in 8th grade so it's irrelevant), but as of next year they'll all be playing high school, so they'll see exactly the desired effect you're looking for.

    In my region nearly all the high school teams are on a winter schedule, and during that time all non-DA teams and leagues take a break so the players can concentrate on that. So this is definitely a case of that win/win.

    Plus there are no games from late November to early February, at least for the younger ages, can't speak for U15 and up.

    I wonder that too, our high school's league in Northern California played every Tues/Thurs plus some Saturdays, and trained most of the other days. They've just got a very short window of time to fit a lot of games in.
     
  17. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like you're lucky enough to live in an area where high school soccer actually attracts those kinds of crowds. In the town I live in now (and the one I grew up in) it's a second tier sport at best and generally the crowds are made up of family and friends, not a whole lot different than their club games, whereas half the town shows up for the local football team.
     
  18. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What are you basing this opinion on? Because from what I've seen in the DA you're dead wrong. Sure, some of the smaller clubs are a little thin on depth, but in general there's a high level of quality. My son's club is one of the smallest in his DA league, and there are probably 3-4 players who shouldn't be on the team, but the rest are studs, and far above the level of the club's second team.

    I mean most DA clubs have multiple teams competing at different levels. And they DO have players they compete against for their spots within the same clubs. For example, the San Jose Earthquakes have a team competing in our DA league, and a lower one competing in the top tier of the NPL. And sure, there's migration between teams over the years as players grow in size, skill, soccer iq or whatever, but at the present time, the DA squads are pretty much top tier. Yeah there will be other very talented players on non-DA teams (I can think of one local club that could easily compete in the DA but chooses not to), but in general, the DA teams and players are actually all that they're supposed to be.

    How is it not fair or equitable?

    Right, but those are not global sports, and the competition to succeed on that stage is much fiercer than those sports that are limited to a relatively small number of nations that care about them (or only one in the case of football).

    But raising the general level of competition IS why the DA exists. Are all those kids going to go on to be professionals or national team players? Of course not, most won't, and those are the ones who primarily have college in mind. But having that larger pool of high level players training and competing against each other is a necessary prerequisite for the truly elite players to raise their game even more.

    This speaks to the same point, who would those ultra-elite players in this ultra-elite DA play against? Just each other, over and over and over, criss-crossing the country, and periodically competing in international tournaments?

    And anyway I think you overstate how widespread the DA effect is, there are only around 75 DA teams nationwide that compete at the high school ages, and I seriously doubt the presence or absence of those few thousand players is making or breaking the high school game.
     
  19. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But this just doesn't work nationwide, for example in California soccer is either a fall or winter sport, with winter more and more becoming the standard for boys and fall for girls, but there's in no sense uniformity even here. Getting all high school leagues to agree to one set season with our widely varying climates is a pipe dream, and thus there's pretty much no way the DA can work around it since their leagues are coordinated at the national level.
     
  20. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #120 luftmensch, Mar 19, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
    Maybe, or maybe those most popular sports have a media that caters almost exclusively to them and continues to treat soccer as an exotic afterthought. March Madness never seemed like as big a deal when I was a kid before the media machine ramped it up to the spectacle it is today, and Monday Night Football and the Superbowl are at least as much about promotion and presentation as an actual sporting event. When you grow up your entire life with all the talking heads on tv telling you that some event is a REALLY BIG DEAL, most tend to stick with that belief as adults.
     
  21. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know where you get this idea that competition is entirely absent from the DA. No, it's not overly emphasized, especially at the younger levels, but it's definitely there. Every game is fiercely competitive, and everybody is doing their best to win, all the time, these kids couldn't even compete at that level without that desire. And while the U14 and under DA leagues don't keep track of points officially, you can bet your ass people keep track (I have a freaking Excel spreadsheet going for my son's league).

    And from U/15-U16 up standings are kept, and competition is fierce for the top spot. We were lucky enough to catch some of a match between the LA Galaxy and Real Salt Lake academy teams when we were in LA last November, and it felt like a professional atmosphere, the crowd was small but intense, and the quality of play and level of intensity was phenomenal. So believe me, lack of meaningful competition isn't really an issue.
     
  22. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The fact that even you admit that 3 or 4 players shouldn’t be on the team bolsters my point....whether its 3- 4 or 6-8 it doesn’t really matter…the point being, it’s a subjective evaluation of talent…you think 3-4, someone else might think 5 or 6, the coach in this case, thinks he got it just right…

    Not everyone has access to/or lives in a DA market…
    There is a strong presumption/belief, which isn’t necessarily true, that all the best players are to be found in the DA system…
    This presumption leads to a lazy/shallow college recruitment…
    Lazy/shallow college recruitment, I fear, will lead to the continued perception that soccer is an elitist sport in this country, and will never gain populist support/interest…
    ·
    Yes, soccer is an international sport…with great international interest…yet, all those nations that care and succeed at that global level also care, succeed and are passiiont about soccer at a domestic level…as I’ve said before, those countries don’t crazy love soccer because they produce great players, they create great players because they crazy love soccer…

    Yes, I understand…you can’t sharpen a knife without a stone…and maybe at this point, this is a necessarily evil or situation…I just hope for something better, something more open, something more in line with our sporting culture as a whole…

    Why not? If the WHOLE point of the DA is the ultra-elite then why not just cater to them out right?

    There are those who would argue that the presence of a few quality players can make a big impact all the players around them…I would agree…the quality of the High School soccer overall, in general, will never improve if the USSF continues to actively work against it, which I believe their polices do, whether deliberately or unintentionally…

    It’s the chicken or egg….are basketball, football and baseball popular in this country because big media decided in some boardroom that they should be…OR is big media simply reacting to the organic, grassroots interest in these sports? I clearly think it’s the latter…

    And yes, sports and how they grow and are perceived is generational….what we do today will shape how people view things tomorrow…

    I never meant to suggest it was entirely absent…more along the lines of whether it was meaningful competition and how one defines meaningful, acknowledging its very subjective…
     
  23. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    As someone whose kids are just getting started in sports, I enjoy following the back and forth of conversations like these. I think one of the things at the heart of a debate like this is whether soccer really is "different" from the other sports. I wonder how much of it is people trying to convince you they're playing chess when checkers is more appropriate.
     
  24. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    You should only be insulted if you are a teacher/coach who does not understand the game and refuses to obtain continued education.

    Otherwise your statement is simply an assumption altogether.

    Let me give you an example. There is a coach in the burbs of Illinois who made State all 4 years and placed 1st or 2nd each year in h/s. She played D1 college (first singles) and was semi pro after that.

    Following college she grabbed a degree in education and became a grade school teacher.

    Shortly thereafter the Varsity tennis coach at her former high school asked her to come on board to help and eventually transition the role to her. She obtained that role (despite not teaching at the h/s) in practice and ran the entire show (not just varsity) - did an excellent job.

    And then the math teacher - who once was the fresh/soph coach decided she wanted the extra $6k again and that was the end of what could have been a sucessful program.

    Now - I get why that happens and can deal with it - fine. But as long as that math teacher (who did not even play in high school/college) is able to take on the leadership position, then it's likely (possible if that makes you feel better), that the instruction will be far off from even a small club environment.

    So given we are talking about DA here, we can assume that regardless of the sport - you're talking about the top 2-3%. So in that case - how does this help the players other than providing some sense of novel popularity?

    To clarify - the math teacher in this case was constantly on her phone - socializing with players and rarely on the courts.

    I can also name a few other examples of coaches - some in soccer. Not as bad but certainly coaches who have not attended any sort of coaching class in 10-20 years. Plenty of Freshman coaches out there who fit that bill. How does that help those kids improve and prepare for the high levels of h/s?

    I am not saying that this is the majority - I am saying that this is normal at 4/6 high schools around me however.

    On a national level I have no idea. Nor do I care because IMO players should have a choice and parents pushing either way is no good.

    Hope that clarifies.
     
  25. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    :eek::D
     

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