A discussion of Maradona v Platini

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by comme, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    This is Zidane's comment (quote) of the French press (after WC98)

    You write and write about me and Ronaldo, but you don't even see that the greatest footballer of all is right in front of you: Lilian Thuram.

    and this is Thuram showed his frustration of racism and discrimation

    Thuram made major waves in the French and international media when he directly criticized French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy who said that he ''...would clean the scum (racaille) off the streets with high pressure hoses." Thuram is an intelligent man and went much further than his initially sanguine retort of "I am not scum." This is not the case of a celebrity using their platform of fame to wax inane about war and peace. Not one to ignoreidiocy, Thuram knows the world of the banlieues and is a member of the French Government's "Haut Conseil a l'Integration," an advisory body that suggests ways to help integrate minorities. He spoke of alienation and a yearning for respect, fueled by unemployment and discrimination:

    I grew up in an estate, too, but I am not scum. People used to say the same thing to me. What I wanted was to find work...The situation makes me sick. It's always the same, it's always the fault of the youngsters in the suburbs...Nobody is asking the right questions. Nobody is trying to look at the real problems. People are talking about insecurity rather than unemployment. They are trying to convince the public that these people are nothing but rioters, which is not the truth.
     
  2. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    It's not as simple : WC02 and EC04 were two failures but the 2003 year was one of the best ever for France in term of level of play (and results).
    Zidane retired for several reasons and he explained himself at that time (I'm pretty sure Thuram and Makelele retired for the same reasons). The most important one is that he was 32 : he felt he would start to decline soon and that he wouldn't be good enough two years later in WC06. After all, Platini and Kopa both retired at 32 too for the same reason. Secondly, he didn't want to play with new coach Domenech who had fired several members of the staff who were very close to him since he started his NT carreer 10 years earlier (Henri Emile, Emile Boixel...). Thirdly, he didn't feel well with the new generation coming (Evra, Gallas, Mexes etc). He thought they didn't have the same mentality as his own generation had. He said they didn't have the same 'winning' mentality. I don't think you can say there were 'racist' or even 'politics' issues in that. It's not as simple as that. Plus if there were internal issues inside the dress room, they didn't happen before EC04.
     
  3. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Zidane is right :p. This said, Thuram's status raised a lot after WC98 here in France where he became hardly less popular and respected than Zidane. I don't think he was at all frustrated by the way people saw him after WC98. In fact, it's quite the contrary !


    But he says generalities about the French society and what he experimented himself when he was a kid. He doesn't say anything about racist issues inside the French NT team, because they never existed !
     
  4. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Here's a forgotten game : France vs Stuttgart in August 1977. It's an unofficial game but still an interesting one as Platini was in great form. A few months later he would finish third in the Ballon d'Or ranking. He scored a hat-trick (1 goal with his right foot, 1 goal with his left-foot, 1 goal with his head... like in EC84 vs Yugoslavia) and made 1 assist after a nice slalom through the defense.

     
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  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Good post babaorum. Not just because of this video (though the left-footed goal is an example) but I feel like one of Platini's great assets and advantages over many players, including Maradona probably, was his ability to be composed when a chance to shoot arrived and find the part of the net where the goalie isn't able to save the shot (sounds simple lol, but often players can rush shots under pressure or not fully sieze 'half-chances' to score). He didn't do it perfectly every time of course but along with his ability to be extremely accurate and score real quality goals, plus his clever timing of runs etc, I think this could be a reason he scored so many goals.

    Maradona, could also be very accurate with his shooting including from distance of course but I feel Platini's ability to often find the back of the net from half-chances is perhaps an advantage for him; on the other hand Maradona of course was at an advantage in terms of carrying the ball, going past players using close control etc, though Platini as also demonstrated on the video for the first goal, also had the skill and invention to open up the game with the ball at his feet.

    EDIT - good post babaorum - I typed Puck then realised it was you who had posted the video lol!
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Is it maybe possible to dig up that other interview you sometimes mention? Or provide a link to it?

    I mean the one where he says that he was at his best in 1981-82 and that he reached only a few seasons the level of Pelé, Beckenbauer, Cruijff whereas they had that level for a decade or so (maybe I forget a player he compared himself with). You mention it sometimes.
     
  7. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I read it in a paper version of L'Equipe magazine in 2008 but I don't have it anymore.
     
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  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah, I found it back what he said according to you. A player like Cruijff reached the level Platini had at the age of 28 already at the age of 20. According to him.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    All his official goals with Napoli

     
  10. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #585 argentine soccer fan, Aug 23, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
    Recently released video of a goal by 19 year old Diego Maradona playing for Argentinos Juniors in Colombia.

    The video quality really sucks, it looks worse than a match from 1930, but the play is impressive nonetheless. A glimpse at the young Maradona that fans in Argentina still remember.

     
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  11. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Beautiful goal, a young preamble to his performance in WC86.
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This is a piece of David Miller about Diego Maradona, written after his positive drugs test in 1994. It is very positive about him and although a different view is possible (of course) it makes a couple of good points.

     
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  13. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    To complement this video, here's some close-up photos of the goal:[​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [Source: El Grafico]
     
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  14. m79j79m86

    m79j79m86 New Member

    Jun 15, 2014
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    vegan you know the rating given to maradona by el grafico in the following match: vs poland 1980, vs swiss 80,vs ussr 80 vs chile 80 ,vs west germany 82,vs bulgaria 82
     
  15. m79j79m86

    m79j79m86 New Member

    Jun 15, 2014
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    vegan you know the rating given to maradona by el grafico to following match:vs poland 80,vs swiss 80,vs chile 80,vs ussr 80,vs germany 82 and vs bulgaria 82
     
  16. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    @Vegan10 @Once
    When was Maradona at his best in your opinion? Do you think he showed his best form at the World Cup or did he have similar quality stretches weeks/months?

    Sorry if this was already answered I just don't want to read through the whole thread again.
     
  17. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    @Vegan and @Once can give a more thorough reply, but I would say to match his WC86 performance, there were long stretches during the 84-85, 86-87 and 87-88 seasons with Napoli, his 81-82 season at Boca Jrs, and his YWC 79 performance. His two matches at WC94 were vintage Maradona as well.
     
  18. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    When was Maradona able to perform consistently (weekly) extraordinary performances at the higher level?

    My feeling is, performing as the WC1986: 1) greatly in each match, and 2) facing top opponents.
    In his first season in Napoli, no doubt. And a couple more.

    I think that in his others Serie-A seasons, he failed the 1) point. He became more and more discontinous, alternanting awesome matches with others when dissapearing (even being able to did some magic plays)

    About his seasons in argentine and spanish leagues, he failed the 2) point. Because hardly those leagues in those eras were the top league worldwide, IMHO.
     
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  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I've said my opinion many times but was Serie A already the best league in the mid 80s?

    That wouldn't count though in case of continental club successes and performances.
     
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  20. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    That's true for the early 80s.
    Since the mid 80s, i think they were at the same level as Premierleague and Bundesliga.
    And since the late-80, at the top. IMHO
     
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  21. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    right ... late 70 to early 80 = EPL #1 . mid 80 SerieA catching up ... and became #1 in late 80's
    at least in an "accumulative method " in ratings
     
  22. SirWellingtonSilva

    May 30, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I know people say different things, ardilles said something about the English league being more difficult than Argentina. But also, in an interview sabella said the English league was easier, it was easier to find space and the marking wasn't as tight.
     
  23. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #598 JamesBH11, Jul 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
    players (people) tent to bias toward where they are from (or playing) is that new?

    To my experience, (depends on which era/decade), but say 80's to 2000 here;
    - EPL indeed allowed more space ... and less marking (vs SerieA and Liga)
    - however EPL playing at higher tempo, and required more "physical" and "Speed" of players. Speed here is both physical and "decision" - so that often most SA players found disapointed in EPL, because they do NOT have much time on the ball (as compared in Liga and SA legaues)

    - so, there is no "easier" league ... but depends on how a player SUIT/ADAPT (his style) to the play there in such league!
     
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  24. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Why you don't consider the Argentine league in the late 70s/early 80s as one of the top in the world? It featured Independiente, dominant at the Libertadores, Boca Jrs which won two consecutive Libertadores, River Plate with a fantastic generation of players as basis for the WC78 winning team, plus Maradona himself. I would put it as easily top four in the world at that moment in time.

    @msioux75
     
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  25. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    yes - many underrated SA leagues in late 70 to late 80's - Indeed they were so "comparable"to top 4 Europe leagues

    NO coincidence: SA teams won more Intercont 9 than Euro 4 in dozen occasions from mid 70 t0 90.

    Now since 90 to present: Obviously Euro leagues became better with a gap (SA leagues won't make TOP5) - again Euro won 8 and SA 5 in same dozen times
     
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