I get that you think Besler is better. However, you seem to take any less than stellar opinion of him personally. It would be difficult to quantitatively prove one is better than the other since they played in such different times. The only thing out there that would compare them are articles compiling fan voting which puts Pope above Besler. Me being a DC fan has nothing to do with me liking Pope.
i'm 1 of those posters. do you recall when this was or how much $$? did Eddie say why he wanted to remain?
Its worth noting that both Pope and Besler got significant interest from Europe, but chose to stay in MLS. Supposedly, MLS received transfer bids for Besler from both a Bundesliga club and Premier League clubs after the 2014 World Cup. Reports have indicated that the clubs in England at the time were Sunderland and Fulham. [Of course, after the 2014 WC SKC gave both Besler and Zusi big money to stay. There's a lesson there. They've now hit the "highly paid, oft-injured veteran" stage of their careers.] By the way, another CB transfer tale that's also true. Real Madrid and Chelsea both submitted offers for Oguchi Onyewu at one point while he was at Standard Liege. Of course, he went to AC Milan on a free transfer instead. [Then got hurt; never recovered] I think we often underestimate how good Oguchi Onyewu was in his prime. Why didn't he makes the move to one of those big clubs? Because he and his agents thought the clubs were just acquiring him as bench filler. And I think he was right. Also true story. The Galaxy received a transfer bid from Monaco for Sean Franklin RB/CB that was turned down. Never understood that one. He wanted to remain a "one club man" with the Galaxy, and of course was shortly thereafter shipped out to DC. I once talked to an FCD front office type who said MLS clubs and MLS HQ receive a lot of offers for players that never see the light of day. The caliber of clubs that submitted offers for Brek Shea, before he was eventually sold to Stoke..........for instance.
If I remember correctly, Pope chose to stay in MLS to help build the league. He definitely had the chops to play abroad.
Pope's comments on the matter a couple of years ago. To me there's one word to describe Eddie Pope and that's "class." On and off the field. Very humble and unassuming. By the way, he left the MLSPU in 2015. He's involved now with the marketing and representation firm Octagon (as far as I know anyway). http://www.noshortcorners.com/2012/01/extra-time-eddie-pope.html "At a couple points throughout my career, I had a lot of interest from many European teams. This was particularly true right after the 1998 World Cup. I had a number of very flattering offers, and a lot of teams were involved, including, at some level, AC Milan. To be honest, the team that I was closest to going to was Borussia Dortmund. They had just won the European Championship, Julio Cesar had left, and they were interested in bringing me in. MLS agreed to a deal with them, and they offered me a very good amount of money. It was very flattering, but I chose not to do it. From very early in my career, I have had a strong desire to build the sport of soccer in the US. I thought long and hard about it, discussed it with my family, and decided that my priority was here. I have heard people say since that perhaps I should have gone abroad in order to pursue a new challenge or to test how good I really was at that time, but I didn't see it that way. I already felt that I could play at that level and I had coaches and other players who actually battled day in and out in Europe constantly telling me that I didn't belong in the MLS and that I needed to go to abroad as soon as possible. So, it was coming from all sides. Many even said that I would be helping the sport in the US even more if I went abroad. I didn't think so. At the time, MLS was a couple of years old and some guys were actually even moving in the opposite direction by leaving leagues in Europe and coming home. I felt then and feel now that those moves were paramount to the existence of this league. I do think I would've enjoyed a career in Europe as much as I did here. However, I was very lucky to have had such a wonderful career here in the US and I would be downright greedy to ask for anything more! I'm proud of the decisions that many made, including myself, by becoming a part (even if it was just a small one) of helping to grow this league. And today, even after my playing career, I am still working toward the same ends, just now with the MLS Players Union."
I think its also because MLS, Player Agents, Players, and Media Members don't really push speculation (outside a NT coach). The best "sources" for that coverage are twitter accounts who are can't really attribute a source and are sometimes wrong. It helps to a certain degree as foreign clubs are more likely to get a feel for what they need to do to get a player, because it wont get reported and used for leverage. IIRC, Jimmy Conrad had some opportunities that were never mentioned.
Interesting. I never would have assumed this. I guess it makes sense. We have quality players for lower prices and I'm sure many clubs scout them out if nothing more than for curiosity. Any opportunities worth mentioning?
Wait, Besler, Gonzalez and Dempsey are the most consistent over the past four years? I'm a Besler fan, but consistent isn't how I'd describe Gonzalez or Dempsey.
So who's been the most consistent in your opinion? Bradley who disappears in major tournaments? FJ who besides the WC has been pretty bad for the NT in recent years? Cameron who's always been a hit or miss player? Guzan and all his errors in crucial games the last few years? Howard who hasn't really played since the WC? Altidore who's injured every major competition? Jones who's been good maybe a total of 9 games in his NT career (WC and CAC)? One of the main problem's for the NT has been the lack of consistent performers. We just haven't had many in recent years. This cycle (and the back half of last cycle) has lacked those players. Besler, Dempsey, Gonzalez have all been very consistent (IMO), other than times that they've all had where they were carrying an injury or two. Dempsey and Gonzalez were both injured at around the same time, right before the WC, but they both rebounded and played really well at the WC. Besler was injured right after the WC. For the most part, they've been our most consistent performers the past 3 or 4 years, IMO.
Jimmy Conrad was pretty good at his best. He probably could've played in Europe. I think we've had better CB's than their club pedigrees would suggest, but for some reason the Pope's, Conrad's, Besler's, Gonzalez's just haven't played in Europe. Had they, maybe our CB's would be viewed more favorably as opposed to other positions where tons of the top NT performers at those positions have been regulars in European leagues.
do you guys think Besler could have managed well for a club in the PL? or Pope at Dortmund? I recall reading Conrad played abroad but can't tell if it was Scandinavia or not
Besler, has plateaued, if he went and pushed on he could have made it. Biggest weakness is that he is not a threat on set pieces and if he got isolated against a big threat a high quality cross can beat him. Pope was a lock down 1v1 defender, maybe a stronger, shorter, quicker Ike Opara without the fragility. He would have had to work on his passing but that wasn't at as high of a premium as it is now.
Besler would likely not physically stand up to a full EPL season. Maintaining peak form throughout a year of MLS and NT games has typically been a struggle for him. Frankie Hedjuk and Bocanegra got good runs at the top level, so why not Pope?
I think there are a lot of younger fans on these boards now (which is a great thing), who didn't actually see Pope on a week-to-week basis in his prime. The 1996 to 2002 Eddie Pope was amazing. If you ask me, there hasn't been a classier centerback in MLS regardless of nationality. The interesting thing is that he was gone so much with the national team (and he often had little injuries) that he never played more than 22 games in an MLS regular season until his final year in the league (2007 with RSL). If you only watched Pope post-2002, when he was mostly with the Metrostars and RSL.............then you missed it. Little known truthiness about Eddie Pope. Was recruited by Mack Brown to UNC in order to be a kicker Bolovich didn't actually recruit Eddie to UNC to play soccer, as he assumed he was going to Wake Forest. He went to UNC to play both. And he was actually on the football team as a placekicker. But an injury led him to being redshirted his freshman season. He then chose soccer over football, and was involved in the 96 Olympics campaign.
Its a complete myth that you have to be extremely physical to play in the Premier League. There are so many players who are not. MLS is just as physical as the Premier League.
Kasey Keller on the differences in physicality when comparing MLS, EPL, and La Liga. http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/bl...76984/kasey-keller-mls-epl-usmnt-james-martin
recklessness and hacking vs physicality - There is a tendency to conflate for physicality those first two traits of a game-play. And MLS has plenty of recklessness and hacking. But the EPL players are stronger and faster and more skillful. They play the game at a faster pace, as noted by Keller. destroyer vs deep-lying player - The difference between the types lies not in intelligence but in skill set.
EPL players don't have some superior gene that makes them more physical. There's nothing to prove an athletic advantage, whereas there actually is evidence to prove that Americans are more naturally athletic. What the average EPL player has is a superior combination of skill+athleticism. Its a higher quality of physical, I agree about that, but not necessarily more physical. Definitely faster paced and more skilled, which makes the physicality tougher to deal with, but on average I don't think the players are faster, stronger, taller, jump higher. Just like with all physical leagues, the most technically skilled and smart players are able to adapt to the physicality. Also, the USMNT is considered one of the most athletic NT's of the top 50 or so. American athletes are probably the most naturally athletic in the world, if you consider the Olympics. The problem with our naturally athletic players is that they just aren't very skilled, for the most part. Our domestic league surely isn't lacking in players to knock you down, jump over you, run past you, outmuscle you. MLS is very much a physical league that suits pure athletes over technically skilled and smart players.
So, an athletic advantage since skill+athleticism = advantage. So, more physical. Faster-paced and more skilled makes it a more physically demanding league.
I have told this story before, so forgive me if you heard it earlier. I coached this fellow, who got a job as a high school coach. He called me up and said that he had a particularly good player on his team and wasn't sure which position to play him at. I can remember wondering if he wasn't just suffering from some "new coach type wistful delusion syndrome", but went and saw the team and the player, it was Eddie. Many kids in North Carolina grow up wanting to go to UNC. The Tar Heels did and almost still do have their choice of almost anyone they want (as do the women). Eddie chose to go to UNC as a recruited walk on in soccer, and yes, he was recruited in football. Because he did not participate in the Olympic Development Program, to a certain extent, he was a bit of an unknown quantity. Anyway, he chose to go to Chapel Hill, where it was soon recognized that he was an extraordinary talent and, as they say, the rest is history. I was at the match in Landover, Maryland, before the Brazil friendly, back in 2012, where he was recognized in the USA soccer hall of Fame. As one might imagine, with. His DCU history, he got substantially the best and a standing ovation. Yes, a great talent and a very classy type guy. Turned down the big money in Europe to help build MLS. Edit: the coach, who is still coaching in Greensboro, played him as central midfielder in a 4-3-3. Eddie took most of the free kicks and actually scored quite a few goals. Here is his bio, when inducted into the North Carolina Soccer Hall of Fame. It's more informative than Wikipedia, but perhaps not as complete, as he was still playing. http://www.ncsoccerhalloffame.com/epope2.htm
Well, Klinsmann had his favorites, now it's time to see Arena's guys. Based on Klinsmann's calls, you'd assume Besler and Birnbaum would be the favorites to start at CB in the winter friendlies. It's entirely possible that Arena agrees, but the two CBs that he singled out today were the Dallas combo of Hedges and Zimmerman. With Besler possibly missing the camp after surgery, I'm curious to see if Arena rates the boys from Dallas higher than Birnbaum.
I think it's clear that Klinsmann valued guys who could not only defend but play the ball out of the back. So I wonder if that's going to be the case with Arena, or if he'll be more confortable with guys just clearing or passing long into space kick-and-run style. I'm curious if someone else can rank the guys in this camp on their passing ability.