8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc.[R]

Re:

If it looks like a gloat, walks like a gloat, smells like a..........

 

The USWNT was outplayed in PARTS of the game, however all those parts do not count without goals to back it up. US found a way to win, they got the ball in the net more than the Brazillians, simple as that. They won, fair and square, the deserve the gold.

And I can't believe after all the discussion here, that the CORRECT call on the Japan offside goal is still being disputed. Learn the rule, it was clean.

 

Dan -

A substantial minority of soccer fans firmly believe that no analysis exists aside from examining the final score. That is, if one team finishes the match with more goals than the other, it by definition is the "better team."

Thus, had Alan Smith not scored with 30 seconds left on Saturday and Man U had lost to Blackburn, Blackburn would have been the better team and Man U the weaker team that deserved defeat.

There is a certain rough justice to this viewpoint. However, it fails at the task that is expected of analysis, which is to assist in giving insight into future events. That Man U dominated possession, dominated shots, and (almost) lost solely because Blackburn converted a half chance that it had is meaningful for predicting the result of the next game -- because next time Man U will likely score a few of those shots and Blackburn will almost certainly not convert on its only half chance.

I have had to explain these kinds of things to English fans as well as American, so this is certainly not a U.S. failing.

So, to the point ... yes, it is meaningful that Brazil was able to control possession against the U.S., to create many good opportunities, and to dribble the U.S. defenders senseless. This means that Brazil is a much more dangerous loser than, say, Norway was in the past. Because Brazil has a much higher upside, should it cure some of its many faults.

I wouldn't go quite so far as to joke that the U.S. should give its gold medals back. I'm not even sure that the U.S. women should think of themselves as lucky. But they most definitely should be worried. I don't think the status quo will work for the '07 Cup. I think that if the U.S. women put out a team that is equally as good as the '04 Olympic champs, they will lose.

 

Great point, even if it's a bit of an oversimplification.

Of course, if Blackburn can beat ManUtd in the return match, and finish higher in the table, I think we'd be restricted to descriptives like "more attractive" "positive" or "profligate finishers" - maybe "more talented." (Whatever people use to describe Liverpool throughout the last decade when they drop points or crash out of Europe)

"Better" has some meaning left in it. If you're "better" you may lose on the day, but as you point out there's an expectation that you'd be more successful later (or were more successful previously). Given the vagaries of international football, the Brazilians are in better shape than they were when they burst onto the scene in '96 at the Olympics, but I don't think anyone's going to predict anything about the 2007 WWC yet - we just don't really know who's playing and none of these teams will look the same in three years (imnsho).

Also, there's a pretty clear expectation that the squad, methods, tactics, and staff that won the gold will need serious overhauling to contend again during the next WWC/Oly cycle.

 

this is a great, strengthening rivalry. how abt playing brazil again on "the tour"? what's done is done- now brazil needs to put their money where their mouth is.

 

Ah well, the nature of the bigsoccer.com beast.

Good response. You're correct, my assumption that Man U is the better team as measured by 2004/05 league results has not yet been proven. Right now, they look ruuderless.

 

Actually they look Les than fully ready for the season!

 

Re: 8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc

i know we'll never agree on this but:

abby almost fell over trying to get to mia's free kick without getting onside. the only reason she did not get the ball was because it hit the ground closer to boxx. the ball bounced between the two of them right in front of the japanese goal.

abby participated in and influenced the play from an offside position. apply the rule and she was offside.

 

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well if You think that mia should give back her medal, how about the norwegians giving back theirs from 2000?.....seems to me that it all averages out. We were the better team in 2000. but; lost on a missed hand ball call and had to settle for silver. We controled play, we had the possession, we outplayed Norway and heald them to only 3 shots on goal all game. they made every one of them. and 2 were on set peices. if the U.S. in your estimation is not deserving of their gold medal then neither are the Norwegians from the 2000 Olympics. which means that the Gold should still remain around Mia's neck as earned from the 2000 U.S. performance. seems to me that gold medal is 4 years late in coming.