8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc.[R]

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Don't know if this Cybersoccernews article has been posted but forgive me if it has but I thought you should read it.

http://cybersoccernews.com/columnists/loney/040827loney.shtml

 

What a turd.

You play the game to find out who's better. The US won (twice in a week). If you like men's soccer better - well, good for you, but the US men didn't qualify and the women won gold. Harping on a bad call, or whatever, is just "neurotic US male soccer fan" behavior. Nobody's saying the Koreans "stole" their way into the final four in '02 by having the refs completely and utterly (and much more clearly) hose the Italians. Yeah, the Brazilians are great (and they're at least 50% responsible for the game getting out of control); but they didn't finish and we did. No amount of wishing will make it different, and the ref certainly sucked for everyone. Imagine what Wombat could've done if she wasn't levelled on every serve next time you whine about a handball.

In some ways it's more pathetic now than before because the men are doing reasonably well at the senior level and don't need it like they did when the contrast between '98 and '99 was all too clear.

PS - what about those Germans and Prinz. I guess the US defense is better than it was given credit for - since Prinz is the heir to Mia, yadda yadda yadda. Prinz did get that one shot off of a deflection <thumbs up>); while Mia created the game winner at the other end - and they were on the same field [/similarity]

The contrast with men's basketball (another sport where empty suits have gotten a hold of the game) was the big one for this Oly in my book.

 

Dan Loney is one of the biggest supporters of the womens' game out there.

 

evidently, most women's game supporters are quite small.

"Stole" the gold medal?

C'mon.

Obviously, the endless be-littling victory discussions are completely ludicrous (i.e. "handball/ no handball" "Brazilian artistry" "hacking" etc. sub-threads). You play the game, the result is on the scoreboard. Wanna argue more, well you're a loser.

Soccer must need better supporters.

 

I wondered where the article was linked, since I was getting some hate mail. I'm glad I found this thread, so I don't have to waste column space replying to your e-mail.

Coach? Stop acting like a tool. If you describe that game without mentioning Brazil's forwards blowing right past our defenders, you're not being honest. If you describe Brazil's fouls and ignore those by the US, you're not being honest. Brazil was a better team that day, and was very unlucky to lose.

And yes, I truly believe in my heart that the US gold medal was the biggest disgrace in Olympic history - a bigger ripoff than the 1972 Soviet medal, Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones Jr., and the East German transexual steroid teams put together. In fact, starting today I will be touring the nation collecting signatures to put "Both Hamms should give back their medals" onto the ballot. Check out the website at www.miahammandtherestoftheunitedsta...ethegoldandreallyoughttogivebackthemedals.net.

(www.miahammandtherestoftheunitedsta...ethegoldandreallyoughttogivebackthemedals.com was already registered. Damn cybersquatters.)

 

It's possible to be a "supporter" in the stadium and be give an honest analysis of the games outside it.

The Brazilians beat us like a drum for 3 of the 4 halves, and we barely held our own in the fourth.

For every Elaine bludgeoning Wambach, there was a Reddick elbow to Christiane. These were not the "beautiful" games.

The U.S. got the results. Cool.

But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that the U.S. was the "better" team. Luckier team? Definitely.

Go U.S.!

 

Re: 8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc

This claim reminds me of the old Groucho Marx line: "Who do you believe? Me or your own eyes?"

The T.V. coverage certainly doesn't support your claim. What then are you basing this claim upon? Accounts of eyewitnesses who were at the match? If so, then please share them...

 

Re: 8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc

I guess it would require you to take off the rose-colored glasses first.

 

We were lucky to win the game against Brazil. The woodwork saved us at least twice in both games.

The fact is, in the end, we won. I'm glad we won.

Morris20, you're making a big deal out of Loney's opinion. The last time I checked, it was a free country and he could say what he wanted. I thought his analysis was good because it points a valid issue in rough play.

I was watching an English Premier league game the other day and thought about how fantastic it would be if the women's game had refs like the men's game. Those guys don't hesitate to card your ass if you try to pull a stunt like pulling shirts or throwing elbows. Both of which went on, by both sides, in the gold medal match.

If you pull a card on the players doing stuff like that, nine times out of ten they'll start behaving. If they don't, you give them a red and they can think about it in the lockeroom. The problem is, the referees in the women's game don't pull cards. I know Foudy should have gotten a card against Brazil. I was surprised she didn't.

Loney loves the women's game and I'm glad he bothers writing about it at all. He doesn't have to, you know, and he makes damn good points while he's doing it.

Having said that, feel free to whine and complain at your leisure. You've got just as much right to do it as Loney does. That doesn't mean we won't tell you we think you're being rude.

 

Great reply. Very Romey-esque (which is odd that I found your answer amusing because I can't stand Jim Rome). Anyway, thanks. I was laughing my ass off. I think it was your "outrageous" Hamms statements that won me over.

 

Re: 8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc

From the US Soccer website......Statistics/Fouls
Champ US 24 Bra 23
Semi US 11 Ger 10
Qtr US 19 Jpn 4
Aus US 11 Aus 13
Bra US 9 Bra 17
Gre US 8 Gre 8

Total US 82 Opp 75

Maybe it wasn't as one sided as it looked.

 

We are in 2004, the US has done more to women soccer than any other country and they deserve respect for that.but its a new day and the US style of play is getting old.What US lacks is individual talent.Mia Hamm was that dominant player in her time.Other countries have since caught up to their teachers(the US).I see a hugh gap between the best American players and the best Brazilian or even Nigerian player.I dont think anyone on US roster can do half the things that Marta and Christiane are capable of.And brazilians can only get better with more support from their country.US plays technical football.much like the German mens team or even US mens team.The very thing that prevents the US mens team from dominating is the very thing that will prevent THE WOMEN.lack of individual talents.

 

US women will be diving too once they advance their soccer knowledge.Players do things to their advantage,its a gamble and when caught they get carded for it.

 

Well, I had no problems with the article, but you're a little over the top here.

I'm betting Mia gives back her Gold Medal the same day our Men play their WC Semifinal game with South Korea......

 

Re: 8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc

US SECOND GOAL AGAINST JAPAN four players offside.
When the play started,there were just four US players and the goalie.If that is not offside i dont know what is.I have never befoRe seen a clearer offside. Your problem is you are blinded by your love for the US women team and you refuse to see things as it is.If the tables were turned,that goal would be unacceptable to you to.

 

Re: 8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc

Hmmm, Andy it seems to me that I've found your glasses to be distinctly rose-colored on another topic.

However, I fully agree with your precept as advanced here: Call 'em as you see 'em, and that doesn't change whether they're wearing red, white, and blue and you want them to win, or whether they're garbed in the foul "tri" colors.

 

There are different types of talent in soccer, it all counts.While Brazil has the best dribblers ,perhaps,Wambach will soon become the best header of the ball in the world, if she isn't already.The US has the best female GKs in the world, as well.The Germans may defend the best etc.

 

Did you follow the link you quoted? Do you have any clue as to the point I was trying to make?

Despite the fact that April Heinrichs has pretty much - other than Heather O'Reilly, and to a lesser extent Lindsay Tarpley - ignored the players in the system, The US baby nats are routinely crushing their opposition. The replacements for the "91s" are there.

I agree that we've fallen a bit behind. Canada brought their kids in over a year ago. China has cleaned house. And Brazil nearly won the gold medal with teenagers, but three years is plenty of time to gain the needed experience. But we've got to start now.

 

Re: 8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc

Do I really need to go through the play frame by frame?

Three - count them - three U.S. players were in an offsides position when the ball was played.

Being in an "offsides position" is not the same as "being offsides". FIFA has repeatedly beat the drum about what should be called offsides and what players should be considered "passively offside". The throughball was to a fourth U.S. player who was "onside at the time the ball was struck." Don't believe me. Put the game on and watch the replays frame by frame. Once the receiving player - who was onside - passed with the ball in front of the other three U.S. players, those players became onside, and eligible to become involved in the play without offsides being called.

Very simply it was a blown offsides trap.

Two or three years ago, this play would've been whistled dead. But FIFA has spent the last year clearly specifying what should and should not be considered "passive."

But don't take my word for it. Go to the Referee forum here on BigSoccer, they hashed it through. Go to the thread here in this forum for the Japan game and read that discussion.

 

Re: 8/26/04: US VS Brazil Gold Medal Match (2PM ET/2PM PT on NBC) Pre/During/Post/etc

Well, ....

Sibuor, please check the Referee forum that Andy mentioned. There's a whole thread on offsides: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132735

There's also a long discussion of the play in question in the US-Japan thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131355

The same thing happened in one of the Euro 2004 games. Van Nistelrooy "looked" offside, but he was not.

Listen I would have called it an offside, too. (good thing I'm not a ref!) But now I know the new rule better (as a result of reading posts here on BS) and know that it was not.

 

Wow, your comebacks are as great as your article
I figure if your next column was as edifying as your last, replying to me might be a nice break from the bilge in your last one (at least it'll be funnier bilge - and you make more sense whining about someone not agreeing with you than do when you write about the game).

I still don't get how you define "better team" if beating someone twice in a week doesn't qualify. Yes, the US was outplayed in the first half of the first game, but the Brazilian's crappy finishing doomed them (and the US converted its 45 minutes on top in the first match). Yes, the game was rough and yes the Brazilians were skillful and skinned the US defense time and again (when they weren't either hacking themselves or diving or pretending to just have been shot).

But . . .

Still, putting the thing in the net is how you figure out winners and losers. Do you think we should make you a judge and you can score the teams on a ten point scale? Would that ease your pain? Or make sense?

I suppose you think the US men's b-ball team really won gold because they can jump higher and "throw it down" better than the teams that went further in the tournament (Go Pepe Sanchez! John Chaney is God!)

 

Re:

Having more possession. Having more productive possession. Making better passes. Consistently breaking free on offense. Executing your game plan. Disrupting the other team's game plan. Taking more shots. Taking better shots. Exploiting the other team's weak points. Getting the most out of your talent. In short, playing the game more effectively, more consistently, and more dangerously than the opponent.

Are you seriously sitting there and telling me UW-Stout has never outplayed an opponent, but lost? Or that UW-Stout has never been outplayed, but won? Render unto me a freaking break.

 

Re:

Hey, they won. It was ugly, but they still won. That's great. Some of us don't like the way that the US program is going. But, I wanted us to win - even though it might mean a few more years of ugly soccer. So while I'm glad we won, I agree with those who think we won lucky.

Enjoy the win, but your gloating smacks of a serious lack of knowledge. You don't look any better in the "Emperor's New Clothes" than he did.

 

Re:

whoa . . .

I think you're combining two things . . .

first of all, the US team is definitely headed in worrysome direction (although there's plenty of room for optimism if you look at the U19's). I'm right with you in saying Ape has done anything but encourage effective, attractive soccer (and the teambuilding, selection thing, uggh) I agree this win supports Ape's regime and clearly that's a problem (obviously you know what I think of that).

but the US DID win (and I think deservedly, with a pair of OT wins - including a pretty commanding performance over the supposed "best team" - the Germans - of course, that won't help Dan's point so he skips it).

I certainly have left our matches thinking we should have found a way to win, or that we played really well but lost; but as our football coach likes to say - "they don't stick an asterisk by that loss." I think it's pretty unseemly to talk about the Brazilians "deserving" to win. Maybe Dan could live in reality and say "if we could finish"

gloating?