8/23/04: US Vs Germany: olympic semifinal (11 AM ET on MSNBC) Pre/During/Post/etc.[R]

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Julius, Aug 20, 2004.

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  1. Julius

    Julius New Member

    Oct 5, 2003
    Philadelphia, PA
    U.S. Women to meet 2003 FIFA Women’s World Cup champion Germany in the semifinal medal round on Monday, August 23 in match that will be televised live on MSNBC and Telemundo at 6 p.m. (local) / 11 a.m. ET. The match presents an identical situation to the semifinals of USA 2003, when Germany upset the U.S. 3-0 at PGE Park in Portland, Ore., on Oct. 5.

    In their quarterfinal in Patra, Germany came back from a 1-0 deficit to score two goals in the final 20 minutes and beat Nigeria 2-1. The results from the other two quarterfinal matches have yet to be determined, with Brazil facing Mexico in Heraklio and Sweden taking on Australia in Volos. Your thoughts on the rematch?
     
  2. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Just be glad we didn't play Nigeria. They're rough as a cobb. I don't believe that we'll be able to handle either team's speed.
     
  3. sregis

    sregis Member

    Nov 5, 1999
    Hoboken, USA
    hmm- i admit it's been awhile since i've seen nigeria play, but on balance, i'd rather play them anytime, anyplace over the world champions.
     
  4. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Minutes played so far:

    360 Scurry, Fawcett, Markgraf
    338 Lilly
    336 Boxx, Hamm
    306 Foudy
    270 Rampone -> maximum of anyone on Germany
    259 Reddick
    258 Wambach
    222 Wagner
    179 Tarpley
    102 Parlow
    101 Mitts
    90 Chastain
    46 O'Reilly
    37 Hucles
    0 Luckenbill

    Cards: Hamm, Lilly

    I'm guessing the 91ers will get a Bronze to complete the whole set. :)
     
  5. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know how you can call that game an upset. Germany played the best ball of WWC'03 before, during, and after that game. The final score was deceiving because of the two late goals, but the loss was not unexpected.

    The match in Oly'04 will be tough. Germany will enter the game with a killer mentality, unlike their match with Nigeria today. The USA will have to limit the German set pieces in the attacking third - expecially corner kicks.

    On the attack the USA needs to mix it up, balls on the ground and at the feet. Hard, probing shots from outside the 18. The USA will not win this game in the air. Steffi Jones will own the Wombat.

    Would April go so far as to play Big Bird and Wombat up top, pulling Hamm back to midfield? (Leaving Wagner on the bench, please.)
     
  6. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    My Bad. I meant instead of Japan in the quarter. I agree about the Germans.
     
  7. j&bontherock

    j&bontherock BigSoccer Supporter


    Think first than write !...we'll get the highest honor in this olympic...
     
  8. DCUPopeAndLillyFan

    Apr 20, 2000
    Colorado
    The irony...
     
  9. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coming to you live from the Tower of Babble

    Unintended humour at it's finest . ;)
     
  10. FawcettFan14

    FawcettFan14 Member+

    Mar 19, 2004
    Colorado
    O'Reilly having the third fewest minutes in the Olympics is a sham.

    FawcettFan's Lineup vs. Germany (4-4-2)

    --------------Scurry------------
    Rampone Fawcett Sobrero Reddick
    ---------Foudy---Boxx----------
    ----Parlow------------Lilly------
    ------Wambach-----Hamm------

    Subs: 1) Tarpley for Parlow at around '50
    2) O'Reilly for Foudy (Mia moves back to attacking mid) '60
    3) 3rd sub not neccisary IMO, barring an injury; maybe Brandi for Reddick late?

    This lineup allows Boxx and Foudy to play as twin defensive middies, which worked well today against Japan, and lets Jules play her natural position. Parlow had a great match vs. Germany in the WWC, and can use her size effectively out of the midfield. We saw that Tarpley was more active off the bench so far in these Games. But bring her on EARLY in the second half, don't wait till the 70th minute.
     
  11. Dutch14

    Dutch14 New Member

    Aug 20, 2004
    Hicksville, NY
    OK, thoughts on the Monday Match:

    Consensus seems to be that we're a bit overmatched athletically - particularly in the back as currently aligned. Not consensus, but apparent, is that we simply do not threaten the goal in the ways you would expect from this roster (more on that in a minute). I also don't think we can "possess them to death" in the middle of the park in even numbers situations - i.e. 4 mids vs 4 mids.

    So, while my thoughts will get some resistance from the anti-old timers, I think you play to that group as a unit and put "stud" Fawcett at sweeper in the back 4 with 5 mids and 1 up top. I think Sobrero (Markgraf) and Rampone (Pierce) are in - you need their speed and athletics in the back and the "on form" nod maybe goes to Chastain or Reddick (fit?).

    I think you cover the vital center with both Boxx (aka Armas' younger sister) and Foudy both in holding roles, Lilly out wide and the other wide mid "on form" nod to Tarpley, O'R, Hucles or Wagner (though I'm not sure AW could really play an effective flank role at this level). That leaves Mia in a "free to roam" role and the Wombat (whoever coined that name definitely gets the Cracker Jack prize) up top and central.

    The reason for this is attacking performances to date. We are getting NOTHING from the attacking mid spot behind the 2 forwards - I mean nothing. I actually think we've basically been "hiding" our weaker players in that spot since there is less defensive responsibility (Tarpley, Wagner). Add to that, the Hammer is not threatening the goal in any consistent fashion as teams are simply covering up at the 18 for mostly predictable (and far too often - very slow) approach play. What have we got - the 3 up top are really 1 and 1/2 at best. Watching the stats on Match Tracker (try watching the game and keeping your lap top on - you get great stats) - you see some interesting trends. I think we had about 12 official shots today - Wombat had more than half of them - she's doing the "big man" work up top. But I think Mia was shot-less (word?) and Tarpley, while competent with the ball many times, never looked like she could cause the defense to panic when she faced up on goal from 25 / 20 yards out - with or without space. 1 shot at most from that spot - continuing a recent trend leading into the Games. That attacking mid spot just shouldn't be that benign - but it is and we can't change that between now and Monday. And THAT, more than anything else is what is affecting Mia's ability to break down the defenses and get dangerous / get more shots.

    So - A) let's get a solid block of strong defenders in the center of the pitch that can also hold the ball and begin the attack out from the defensive third (Fawcett, Sobrero, Boxx and Foudy), B) let's crowd the midfield a bit to dampen down the athletic gap C) let's get Lilly out wide where she prefers to play and where she will have slightly less defensive responsibility with Boxx / Foudy stay at home roles D) and let's get Mia out of a predictable attacker's role which most teams must have been preparing for and have a chance at some of the knock downs and lay backs from Wombat off of those Lilly crosses.

    We're never going to win this game in a scoring contest - i.e. 4-3 or 3-2 ( I HATE making predictions since they always come back to bite you), so we play for the one goal in the run of play, hold them down and maybe get another on a set piece or defensive lapse (maybe they'll study the Japanese offside trap as a new wrinkle?). If we get a match out of the 2 spots that need to be filled at game time (the "on form" 2) and get some good play from the flanks - as the holding mids, Hamm and Wombat suck the defense into the center channel a bit - we may just be able to expose them around the corners and convert one or two of those Wombat shots or knock downs.

    It's a game I'm looking forward to watching actually - and I don't often say that about the Women's side.
     
  12. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Welcome to BigSoccer. Interesting analysis. A lot of good points.
     
  13. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I watched the Germany/Nigeria game also. Great game. The Germans seem to crash the goal on corner kicks. I hope our D can handle that. Granted they were desperate to score in the late minutes. Also it seemed like the Nigerian goalkeeper was fouled on the first German goal.
     
  14. Brushes Sand

    Brushes Sand Member

    Oct 12, 2000
    polychronicqatsitime
    Way to many good points for a first ever post.

    Welcome, Dutch14.Sock :)


    On to the match......

    The fitness/minutes-played disparity will not be conquered by a bunker.

    I only saw the middle third of the Nigeria-Germany match, but what
    Nigeria was doing looked interesting, possibly a man-marking
    system with a sweeper. Did not see the German goals, so I
    can't comment on what broke down for the Nigerians.

    I really have no idea how to deploy for Monday. My gut tells
    me Bruce would, if he took over for April tonight, make 2 of
    his subs Fawcett and Hamm. Yes, you read that right.
    Bunker for an hour, combust young legs to wear down the
    Germans, and try to make the game 30 minutes long. The
    Germans also have the option of making the game 30 minutes
    long, because a regulation draw is almost a guarantee they
    can get the OT goal on our older dead legs. To have any
    chance of winning, we've got to hope the Germans chase
    the game somewhat in the first hour. If we can survive
    an hour without conceeding, and without chasing, we have
    a chance to catch them out in the 3rd 30 minutes.

    Pray for a Hamm goal from range on 80', channeling Preki.

    Pray very hard.

    OT is death. And I don't mean Oliver.

    Final thought:

    Kasey Keller, white courtesy telephone please,
    it's Romario, he wants you to call Brianna and
    tell her "be the ball, fall with the ball, see the ball,
    stand on your head, make history, Represent."

    Solid.

    -bs
     
  15. j&bontherock

    j&bontherock BigSoccer Supporter

    hi everyone, i'm a new guy here, by the way this is a great board and i love it,....well talking about our semi final match, i think AH should include Parlow & Chastain (again) on the starting line up so that we'll have more target players in the box during the corner kicks (Germany's main weapon).
     
  16. Gianni Rivera

    Gianni Rivera New Member

    Aug 22, 2004
    Very thought-provoking post. I don't think the team can adapt to the extent necessary to implement the formation and tactics you suggest, though I would really love to see them surprise everybody. I would be happy if they were just turned loose to attack one on one. That's how Lilly created the first goal. Why they are not doing more of this is not clear to me. They seem to be stuck in a "system" that just stifles the ability of the individual player to go. They need to "take the ball to the hoop" and stop dancing around the perimeter. We'll see what happens.
     
  17. sregis

    sregis Member

    Nov 5, 1999
    Hoboken, USA
    this is my pet peeve too, w/ both our sr. nat. teams.
     
  18. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Lot's of ideas, but I don't see making huge changes at the semis of a major tournament (that includes holding BChaz out until the quarters - what the heck was that about?)

    BS tends to bring out groupthink, but I REALLY disagree with the consensus that we're not as athletic as the Germans. I don't think they should get credit for beating us up or being quicker - we played totally and completely into their hands in '03. If we go with an aerial attack centered on the top of the penalty area, and we take out our most effective server on the day and sub in our smallest forward, THEN we'll get out-muscled in front of the goal.

    Wombat and Hamm are PLENTY to handle up top (and they're considerably better than they were a year ago - with Mia coming off an injury and Wambach making the team about a day before the tournament). My worry is our marking on set plays (which has been to blame for BOTH our WC semi losses - in fact the goals are eerily indentical). If we let attackers get ball side at the near post (which we did to allow the Japanese a goal - that's why Scurry had to hold and not get in the line of the ball), we're in big trouble. We ought to stick Foudy on a post on corners (those don't move), and let someone else mark a runner.

    The Germans are a good, disciplined team - and they nearly went out to a pretty flaky Nigerian side.

    Hopefully, we'll trot out the 4-3-3 and keep BChaz on there. Reddick and O'Reilly give us two good tactical subs we can use, but I'm split on rooting for Ape to de-stupor and sub because she tends to take off our most effective players and put Wagner in. If the chimp was coaching - I'd be hoping for Reddick to come in for the most doubled over defender in the 70th and O'Reilly to spell either Foudy or Lilly (or Tarps) around the last 15 minutes. If we can find a closet to lock Wags and Pukes in for the duration of the match - that MIGHT discourage Ape from subbing them on (my personal nightmare is Ape forgets that Reddick is on the bench and subs in Mitts in the waning moments to try to sit on a one goal lead).

    Sorry to disappoint the "we love men" crowd, but the US is going to take this game if Ape doesn't step in and "coach." Wouldn't it be nice if our own fed was really rooting for us?
     
  19. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If the game is a blowout, we'll be on the wrong side of the scoreline. But - unlike during the WWC03 - I think we'll find some way to win this game.

    It's not a strong feeling, and it may be a bit of wishful thinking, but watching the Germany/Nigeria game they really seemed to be missing Meinert and Wiegmann.

    I like the dual d-mids. Foudy - assuming she's playing - needs to be in the center of the field.

    The major concern for the game is how much gas is left in the tank?

    The major concern if we win the game is whether Mia, Kristine, and Christie can avoid picking up yellow cards.

    Speaking of Rampone, she was visibly limping at the end of the Japan game. Does anyone know if it was just a cramp or something more serious?
     
  20. Alana1079

    Alana1079 New Member

    Jun 9, 2002
    Backwoods, Florida
    From what I hear, she's fine. She was hit pretty hard, but was walking normally about 20 minutes after the game. That's all I know.
     
  21. Mainer5

    Mainer5 Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    Topsham, Maine
    What I would love to see for this game is:



    ------------------------Scurry----------------------


    Rampone-------Fawcett--------Markgraft---------Chastain


    -----------Foudy-----------------Boxx--------------------



    -----------Hamm-----------------Lilly--------------------


    -----------Wambach-------------O'reily------------------


    Let the defense worry about Prince and Gelkstein (sp) and attack, attack, attack the germans.

    Open the game up and pressure the top of the field. Use the combination play of Hamm, Lilly and O'reilly to play off of wambach and put alot of shots on Rothesberg
     
  22. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Drop Lilly for Tarpley and I'll buy you a beer.
     
  23. Tom T

    Tom T New Member

    Feb 25, 2003
    Soccer Wasteland
    OK, we've had some predictions kinda' buried in the posts.
    So, what ya' think?
    1-0
    2-1
    Extra time?
    And, who's gonna move on?

    I'm goin' with my heart here:
    US 2 - 1 Germany
     
  24. j&bontherock

    j&bontherock BigSoccer Supporter



    I love this formation but, the Q is : will the combination Wambach/O'Reily work ? we've seen in a very short period of time during the friendly against Ausie prior to the oly, and i loved what i saw.
     
  25. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Why not a three front? That seemed to work well in the first half against Japan. Hamm and Tarpley/Lilly play as wingers when required.
     

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