News: 40 Man Provisional Roster For The 2019 CONCACAF Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sebsasour, May 20, 2019.

  1. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #601 TheHoustonHoyaFan, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    Lets also be clear that Chandler was the lock starter at RB/RWB for Frankfurth before injuring his knee at the beginning of the 18-19 season. He was out from Sept '18 to April '19 with knee injury, surgeries, setbacks. He finally regained fitness and was back at full strength at the end of April but as is the case in the BuLi the "next" Chandler was entrenched in his slot.

    What is amusing is that you seem to require grand jury testimony to be convinced that Berhalter is putting MLS players before YAs yet you required no such "proof" to conclude that Klinsmann was putting YAs above MLS players. ;)

    PS don't take my post too seriously, I'm just having a little fun after a terrible performance by our boys!
     
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  2. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    #602 Mahtzo1, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    How are his prospects moving forward? I don't know his knee injury but do know that after knee a knee injury is healed it may not ever be 100%...or the player can start up where he left off. surgeries (plural?), setback(s) plural? regaining fitness may or may not be 100% (correct?).

    Looking at his 2017/18 season, he looks like he was pretty much a lock starter (as you said) most of the season until he tore his meniscus where he missed 6 games but then returned as a lock starter but he only featured in 4 of the last 8 (one as a starter) so that makes me think he probably had injury/fitness issues then as well? (to me, my guess is that isn't the pattern of someone that "lost' his spot.

    Personally, I don't think my take on Chandler is that negative compared to others. He obviously has done well in B1 and I think some of the criticism he has received is unfair and relies on how people interpret his "body language" and not how he has perfomed. That doesn't change the fact that I believe his exclusion is reasonable. Berhalter has time to see how he does going forward (heathwise) and make a decision closer to a time when it REALLY matters.
     
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  3. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #603 DHC1, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    Each of the three players you mentioned has been either training with their team prior to the end of the season or was deemed fit enough to play in the GC according to their team’s twitter account so I’d like to understand why you continue to say that they’re injured/unfit.

    Johnson returned to training by season end and was making the bench so he was healthy enough to play.

    It also appears that he traveling with the team in China.

    Chandler - has returned to the team in May and made an appearance for a UCL team.

    Wood is most likely to be injured but here’s what his team said.

    It’s clear that both Johnson and Chandler were fit enough to make the game day squads and even play for their elite teams by the end of the season so please GTFO with the “they’re not healthy/fit” nonsense. The answer to the “how much time has chandler earned” question is that as soon as he returned from injury that had him in the squad and given some playing time for a UCL bound B1 team. He didn’t play this season due to injury but seems like they want him as part of the squad now that he’s returned.

    Could all three players have begged off because they want time to rest? Maybe; but that’s certainly not a sure thing, especially since FJ went to China with Gladbach and the fact that training may actually help Chandler knock off some rust now that he’s fit.

    Do Johnson and Chandler deserve a call up? Did you see who were playing as wingback and outside backs for the USMNT? How can anyone say that they don’t have a far higher ceiling than what we’ve seen in the past couple of games. I mean, both actually play the exact position that we need help in FFS.

    Lastly, the fragility concept is also nonsense as they didn’t even make the 40 man roster despite being better talents than the vast majority of the roster. They could have been listed and not taken or brought into camp and then replaced by someone else on the 40 man roster if they were injured (just like oft injured Altidore and recently injured Long and Morris).
     
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  4. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty thorough post, and thanks for the links. It is possible that Johnson and Chandler wanted more recovery time, or to try to regain their starting spots with their club teams. Maybe Berhalter just doesn't like Wood's game (I do, for the record).

    I did see that one particular left back that quite a few posters were hounding for got a shot yesterday and was terrible. I haven't seen a single post giving props to Antonee Robinson. Though, I will add, the whole experimental setup that Robinson played most of his minutes in (or all? I don't recall) was bad, bad, bad. Still, he was terrible individually.
     
  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Thanks. The poster I was responding to clearly wanted the case to be that the three players all weren’t fit and that’s simply not the case.

    As I’ve previously stated, there are three reasons that a player isn’t on the 40 man roster:
    1. Injury
    2. They declined
    3. Berhalter doesn’t want him
    Hopefully, even that poster should acknowledge that #1 is off the table, although I’m not holding my breath.

    Could it be #2? Sure, but there’s absolutely no evidence as both have said that they’re waiting for Berhalter’s call and that both could use some game time now that they’re healthy again.

    IMO, the real reason for all cases is door #3 - he doesn’t want these B1 players on his squad even though they’ve demonstrated the ability to play at a level meaningfully above MLS.
     
  6. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Naaaah,

    23-29 you should be playing in top leagues in your prime.

    But no way a Clint or Jones level player who balled out in Europe and came to MLS in their 30's should not be called.

    I'm fine with MLS for the start of a career and the latter stages. It should not however represent the peak and prime of a NTer.
     
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  7. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lets be clear that neither that twitter post or the linked article is from Wood's team, Hamburg or his loan club Hanover!
     
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  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I didn’t know that. Just some guy musing then?
     
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Oh, come on. Again with the dramatic over-interpret.

    I have no issues with dual-nationals. Not even the slightest. I love Brooks and Fabian and I'm super excited for Tyler Boyd and Duane Holmes.

    I just don't think roster selection should be primarily determined by an attempt to convince a small number of people that there isn't a bias at all.

    And your attempts to paint anyone that doesn't agree with you as a bigot or a racist or or a xenophobe or whatever is just embarrassing. You aren't some ethical pioneer here -- you're just someone who hates Michael Bradley.

    Stumping for Alfredo Morales is not a moral high ground. Just stop. You want to fight nativism, stop posting about soccer and get out there where real harm is happening.
     
  10. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    First, there is a difference between fit enough to make the bench and being 90 min fit and especially 100% fit. There is definitely a difference between "training with the team" and 100% fit.

    Chandler, since the 11/12 season (eight seasons) has missed 527 days (not games) due to injury/fitness issues as listed on transfermarket. That is an average of 65.9 days per season. That probably is not a fair representation of his career because 250 of those occurred in the 2018/19 season but if you remove those and assume that he returns to previous average he will only miss about 40 days due to injury/fitness issues because that has been his career average. He did have one injury free year and another where he only missed 7 days but he has had a number of knee injuries and repeated knee injuries aren't good. He has torn meniscus (twice), ruptured meniscus, ruptured ligaments, torn meniscus and had an unspecified knee injury, all of which cost hundreds of days.

    Of course he is now another year older...why don't you think that durability concerns are not a legitimate concern? for him and for Berhalter. That was my main point and is still my main point. The fact that he was unavailable due to injury this past season is part of that but not the whole issue. Obviously, if he is not 100% than it would be even more insane to choose him for the team but even assuming he is 100%, both Berhalter AND Chandler would have legitimate reasons for skipping the GC.

    FJ: He wasn't even in the squad the last 3 games. Was he 100% healthy? You said in training. What level of fitness is that? is he 100% but just not game fit? Just resumed training with the team could mean quite a few different things. (I assume that was Johnson since Chandler was in the squad at the end of the season). so you are saying basically that it is a no brainer and you are criticising Berhalter for not taking a guy that is coming off injury but has resumed training. you want him to pick him for a squad that will be playing multiple games in a tournament format in hot and probably humid conditions halfway around the world because he is a B1 player? Do you think FJ would even accept that offer if it was made? I think he is probably smarter than that. Remember the Mexico game where FJ pulled himself out of the game? Do you think he is the type that would possibly jeopardize his recovery and preparation for next season for a relatively meaningless game for a team that does not pay his salary? How would the team that pays his salary feel? They are not without influence in the matter.
     
  11. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Lol. It’s interesting that you skipped over the performance part of why it’s bad to avoid B1 dual nationals. How did our MLS heavy team do in our last game? Maybe we should focus on bringing in our best players instead of having an MLS bias or is 16/23 the right number for you?

    I love how you think I hate Bradley - I guess believing that he’s not good enough to be the central cog in Berhalter’s system is hate. I’ll again ask: is he a Best XI candidate for MLS? Who will sign him next season as he’s available on a free - you think he’s going to earn minutes for a Big 4 team?
     
  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #612 DHC1, Jun 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
    You stated that they weren’t available because of “injury or extreme fragility” and now you’re changing to a fitness/durability standard. Will you acknowledge that they aren’t injured?

    Assuming that we’re now only discussing fragility/fitness, have you also applied said fitness/durability standard to the following:
    1. Jozy Altidore? Do you really consider Jozy and his hamstrings to be durable? Can you say that with a straight face given how much time he has missed this year alone?
    2. Sebastian Lletget? There is no way one can say that Lletget is durable given his lengthy injury history. Lo and behold, he is now injured and is unavailable.
    3. Jordan Morris? What percentage of Morris career has been lost to his blown out knee? He has also recently reinjured the same hamstring that cost him nine weeks two years ago. He in no way can be considered durable.
    4. Aaron Long? How does he meet your 100% fitness standard, as he didn’t train at all for the last month with either his club nor the USMNT?
    You’re simply making up reasons to justify not even looking at talented players on the 40 man roster while ignoring it for other player who not only made the 40 man roster but the 23. Just treat everyone the same and let talent win out instead of having a double standard.

    For the record, I’m fine with all of the listed players above being considered for the 40 man roster despite their durability and fitness concerns. None of them are as talented as Johnson and chandler though.
     
  13. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #613 DHC1, Jun 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
    Told you i wasn’t holding my breath....

    Robinson was terrible vs. Jamaica and I can see how that terrible performance led to him getting cut.

    Given that Mihailović and Robinson got cut for awful performances and Sargent and CCV were dismissed after an uninspiring ones, what will be the consequence for Trapp who was also absolutely terrible in the game?

    IMO, he was supposed to be the best player on the field and he was the primary reason that we lost the midfield against a Jamaica B-team.

    Do we hold our leaders accountable or do we simply blame the young fringe guys for the abysmal performance while Trapp is unaffected? Why wasn’t Trapp cut as well.
     
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  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Did you watch the Jamaica game? Morales has never looked anywhere near that bad.
     
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  15. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I don't honestly see the lack of Chandler/Johnson/Wood as surprising. The first two have struggled with injuries lately and Wood has fallen off a cliff and was always a limited player anyway. Morales I think is a weird one in that he never even gets mentioned outside these forums and I do tend to think Berhalter seems to have a higher bar for guys in Europe to clear, or simply thinks the MLS bar is higher than it really is. But, I;m not quite ready to die on the sword of a
    call up for Bobby Wood.

    For me, the bigger issues are crap like Adams to right back, the mess of tactical garbage we're running out, and who gets in the first 11.
     
  16. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    To me, it’s the same issue rising up in different scenarios. Biased roster selection and then a biased lineup.

    If we build the team around Pulisic, Adams, McKennie and Brooks as the spine of the team rather than around trapp/Bradley, that would be a huge positive step.
     
  17. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's happened many times before: "if only we had brought so-and-so, we'd be better."

    Next time so-and-so are brought, and we're not any better.
     
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  18. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like Trapp either, and his performance against Jamaica incorporated every bad aspect of his game that's been harped on in these forums. How do you propose to hold our leaders accountable for him playing?
     
  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I was referring to Trapp as the leader and IMO he should move to the back of the bench
     
  20. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    How is durability different than fragility? Fitness may technically be different than injury but it is a fine line.
     
  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Will you acknowledge that they weren't injured?
     
  22. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I have said enough. If you can't figure out what I have said than it'll just have to stand as unclear.
     
  23. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    LOL. I noticed that in addition to side-stepping a direct question, you didn't address the inconsistency in Berhalter's fitness/durability/injury decisions wrt Altidore, Morris, Lletget and Long.....

    I'll repeat another direct question that I don't believe you've answered:

    do you think that Arena had an MLS bias?
     
  24. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    It never came up in our conversation. Altidore would be a legitimate drop if that were his reasoning. Lleget is not in the team and has had one injury that I am aware of (not a pattern yet). Morris I would leave off for other reasons. Long...I'm not familiar with his durability issues.

    What makes Arena relevant? We might as well be talking about Klinsmann or Sampson. Last I checked Berhalter was not Arena.

    Sorry if I haven't answered every one of your questions. I have asked you questions that you have not answered. I can live with that. I'm done.
     
  25. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I’m sorry if I didn’t answer any of your questions. I thought I did.
     
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