3rd-placed Finish in USOC/MLS Cup, will they matter?

Discussion in 'US Open Cup' started by henryo, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    This is my 1st post in this folder... It is inspired by DCU's invitation to Copa Sudamericana 2007 as the 3rd-place team in CONCACAF Champions' Cup 2007. (DCU was also invited in 2005 as the 3rd-placed team in CCC 2005.)

    Currently, MLS teams can qualify for CCL as: USOC winners, SS winners, MLSC winners or MLSC runners-up.

    Let's jusy say in 2009:
    1) The same team sweeps USOC, SS & MLSC.
    2) Another team will be runners-up in USOC, SS & MLSC.
    3) Toronto FC will be 3rd team overall in the SS standings, :)

    As TFC can't qualify for CCL via MLS, the 2 remaining slots should go to the 4th & 5th teams in the SS standings right?
    What if the USAF decides to send the 3rd-placed teams in MLSC and/or USOC instead?

    While there're no 3rd-place playoffs for MLSC & USOC like World Cup,
    here're the lists of probable 3rd-place teams in these 2 cups:

    Assumptions:
    1) The composite results of the 2 semi-finalists were compared.
    2) Usual rules: 3 pts per win, 1 per tie (FT & AET). SoW considered Tie.
    3) In case the 2 teams have same points, look at GD then GA.
    4) In case the 2 teams played diff. # of matches: PPG is used for MLSC,
    while results from earliest rounds were excluded for USOC.



    MLSC 3rd-placed Teams:

    96: Tampa Bay-- 2-3-0, 9-9 (Kansas City 1-2-2, 8-9)
    97: Columbus--- 2-2-0, 6-5 (Dallas----- 1-2-1, 4-3)
    98: Los Angeles 2-1-1, 10-5 (Columbus-- 2-2-1, 10-11)
    99: Columbus--- 3-2-0, 10-7 (Dallas---- 2-3-1, 9-14)
    00: Los Angeles 3-1-1, 8-5 (New York--- 3-2-0, 8-8)
    01: Miami------ 3-3-0, 5-9 (Chicago---- 2-2-2, 7-5)
    02: Columbus--- 2-1-2, 6-5 (Colorado--- 1-3-1, 4-10)
    03: Kansas City 1-1-1, 5-4 (New England 1-1-1, 3-2)
    04: New England 1-0-2, 5-4 (Los Angeles 1-2-0, 2-3)
    05: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 4-1 (Colorado--- 0-1-2, 2-4)
    06: DC United-- 1-1-1, 2-2 (Colorado--- 1-2-0, 5-7)
    07: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 3-3 (Kansas City 1-1-1, 1-2)

    Highlights:
    1) Had international tournaments qualifications been granted, it'd have been a just consolation for the SS winners in 96, 98, 01 & 06.
    2) New England '04 were the lowest-placed (9th) team to end up 3rd, followed by Chicago '07 (8th).
    3) New England were the only "unbeaten" 3rd-placed team.
    4) Columbus had the most (3) number of 3rd-place finishes (97, 99 & 02).
    5) Colorado has the most (3) number of 4th-place finishes (02, 05 & 06), did you notice that each of them were out-won & out-scored every time? "Impressive"!



    USOC 3rd-placed Teams:

    96: Dallas------- 1-1-0, 3-4 (Colorado----- 1-1-0, 3-5)
    97: New York----- 2-1-0, 5-2 (San Fran-D3-- 2-1-0, 5-4) x
    98: Dallas------- 2-1-0, 11-4 (New York---- 2-1-0, 5-1)
    99: Columbus----- 2-1-0, 8-4 (Charleston-D2 2-1-0, 6-7) x
    00: Los Angeles-- 3-1-0, 7-3 (New York----- 2-1-1, 8-5)
    01: DC United---- 3-1-0, 14-3 (Chicago----- 3-1-0, 7-3)
    02: Kansas City-- 2-1-0, 7-5 (Dallas------- 2-1-0, 4-5)
    03: Los Angeles-- 2-1-0, 10-5 (DC United--- 2-1-0, 4-3) *
    04: Charleston-D2 2-1-0, 2-1 (San Jose----- 1-1-1, 5-3) x
    05: Minnesota-D2- 2-1-0, 15-11 (Chicago---- 2-1-1, 7-5) x
    06: Houston------ 2-1-0, 8-5 (DC United---- 2-1-0, 6-4)
    07: Seattle-D2--- 2-1-0, 9-3 (Carolina-D2-- 2-1-0, 3-2) x
    08: Seattle-D2--- 1-0-2, 3-1 (New England-- 1-1-1, 5-4) x

    x For lower tier teams, only the matches from 3rd-round onwards (where MLS sides entered) were counted.
    * In '03, DC United's 3rd-round win against Pittsburg was excluded, for fairer comparisons with LA who received a bye into Q-finals.

    Highlights:
    1) DC United '01 were the lowest-placed team (10th) in MLS Reg. Season, followed by L.A. '03 (9th) & KCW '02 (8th).
    2) San Francisco were the only 3rd-level team ever to reach the top-4.
    3) Seattle were the only "unbeaten" 3rd-placed team.
    4) USL sides have finished 3rd in 4 of the past 5 USOCs, isn't that impressive?
     
  2. Art Vandaley

    Art Vandaley Member

    Feb 22, 2006
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel bad that you typed that all out and got no response. Just want you to know that I read it.
     
    henryo repped this.
  3. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Thanks very much for replying...

    I guess this is mainly because:
    1. USOC is in offseason now (so the sub-forum was quieter),
    2. Of the fact that 3rd-place finishes in cups are un-official &
    3. The chances of it offering intnl. tourneys qualifications is remote.

    Speaking of this, would also like to thank ThreeApples for replying to this in the other duplicate thread (posted in the more active MLS: General sub-forum). :)
     
  4. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Updated for 2009 after Houston Dynamo earned the "consolation honors" of finishing 3rd in the 2009 edition, ahead of Rochester Raging Rhinos:

    Congrats to Seattle Sounders who have gone one step further than last-2-seasons' 3rd-placed team, after gaining "promotion" to MLS, :D
     
  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    are MLS teams still in copa sudamericana?
     
  6. cleazer

    cleazer Member+

    May 6, 2003
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    wow, way to necropost in a pointless thread


    As to the question, no, MLS teams are not in the Copa Sudamericana.
     
  7. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    who cares about third Place?? like e in the US open cup which more like a exhibition
     
  8. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Updated up to 2012:

    USOC 3rd-placed Teams:

    96: Dallas------- 1-1-0, 3-4 (Colorado----- 1-1-0, 3-5)
    97: New York----- 2-1-0, 5-2 (San Fran-D3-- 2-1-0, 5-4) x
    98: Dallas------- 2-1-0, 11-4 (New York---- 2-1-0, 5-1)
    99: Columbus----- 2-1-0, 8-4 (Charleston-D2 2-1-0, 6-7) x
    00: Los Angeles-- 3-1-0, 7-3 (New York----- 2-1-1, 8-5)
    01: DC United---- 3-1-0, 14-3 (Chicago----- 3-1-0, 7-3)
    02: Kansas City-- 2-1-0, 7-5 (Dallas------- 2-1-0, 4-5)
    03: Los Angeles-- 2-1-0, 10-5 (DC United--- 2-1-0, 4-3) *
    04: Charleston-D2 2-1-0, 2-1 (San Jose----- 1-1-1, 5-3) x
    05: Minnesota-D2- 2-1-0, 15-11 (Chicago---- 2-1-1, 7-5) x
    06: Houston------ 2-1-0, 8-5 (DC United---- 2-1-0, 6-4)
    07: Seattle-D2--- 2-1-0, 9-3 (Carolina-D2-- 2-1-0, 3-2) x
    08: Seattle-D2--- 1-0-2, 3-1 (New England-- 1-1-1, 5-4) x
    09: Houston------ 2-1-0, 7-2 (Rochester---- 1-1-1, 4-4) x
    10: DC United---- 2-1-0, 5-2 (Chivas USA--- 2-1-0, 5-4)
    11: Dallas------- 2-1-0, 5-3 (Richmond----- 2-1-0, 5-3) x
    12: Philadelphia- 3-1-0, 10-5 (Chivas USA-- 3-1-0, 6-6)

    x For lower tier teams, only the matches from 3rd-round onwards (where MLS sides entered) were counted.
    * In '03, DC United's 3rd-round win against Pittsburg was excluded, for fairer comparisons with LA who received a bye into Q-finals.
     
  9. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Updated for MLSC up to 2011 as well:

    MLSC 3rd-placed Teams:

    96: Tampa Bay-- 2-3-0, 9-9 (Kansas City 1-2-2, 8-9)
    97: Columbus--- 2-2-0, 6-5 (Dallas----- 1-2-1, 4-3)
    98: Los Angeles 2-1-1, 10-5 (Columbus-- 2-2-1, 10-11)
    99: Columbus--- 3-2-0, 10-7 (Dallas---- 2-3-1, 9-14)
    00: Los Angeles 3-1-1, 8-5 (New York--- 3-2-0, 8-8)
    01: Miami------ 3-3-0, 5-9 (Chicago---- 2-2-2, 7-5)
    02: Columbus--- 2-1-2, 6-5 (Colorado--- 1-3-1, 4-10)
    03: Kansas City 1-1-1, 5-4 (New England 1-1-1, 3-2)
    04: New England 1-0-2, 5-4 (Los Angeles 1-2-0, 2-3)
    05: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 4-1 (Colorado--- 0-1-2, 2-4)
    06: DC United-- 1-1-1, 2-2 (Colorado--- 1-2-0, 5-7)
    07: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 3-3 (Kansas City 1-1-1, 1-2)
    08: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 4-3 (Salt Lake-- 1-1-1, 3-3)
    09: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 3-2 (Houston---- 1-1-1, 1-2)
    10: Los Angeles 2-1-0, 3-4 (San Jose--- 1-2-0, 3-3)
    11: Kansas City 2-1-0, 4-2 (Salt Lake-- 1-2-0, 4-5)
     
    ceezmad repped this.
  10. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Updated for MLS Cup, up to 2012:

    MLSC 3rd-placed Teams:

    Year:3rd-place, W-L-T,GS-GA (4th-place, W-L-T, GS-GA)
    96: Tampa Bay-- 2-3-0, 9-9 (Kansas City 1-2-2, 8-9)
    97: Columbus--- 2-2-0, 6-5 (Dallas----- 1-2-1, 4-3)
    98: Los Angeles 2-1-1, 10-5 (Columbus-- 2-2-1, 10-11)
    99: Columbus--- 3-2-0, 10-7 (Dallas---- 2-3-1, 9-14)
    00: Los Angeles 3-1-1, 8-5 (New York--- 3-2-0, 8-8)
    01: Miami------ 3-3-0, 5-9 (Chicago---- 2-2-2, 7-5)
    02: Columbus--- 2-1-2, 6-5 (Colorado--- 1-3-1, 4-10)
    03: Kansas City 1-1-1, 5-4 (New England 1-1-1, 3-2)
    04: New England 1-0-2, 5-4 (Los Angeles 1-2-0, 2-3)
    05: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 4-1 (Colorado--- 0-1-2, 2-4)
    06: DC United-- 1-1-1, 2-2 (Colorado--- 1-2-0, 5-7)
    07: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 3-3 (Kansas City 1-1-1, 1-2)
    08: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 4-3 (Salt Lake-- 1-1-1, 3-3)
    09: Chicago---- 1-1-1, 3-2 (Houston---- 1-1-1, 1-2)
    10: Los Angeles 2-1-0, 3-4 (San Jose--- 1-2-0, 3-3)
    11: Kansas City 2-1-0, 4-2 (Salt Lake-- 1-2-0, 4-5)
    12: Seattle---- 2-1-1, 3-4 (DC United-- 1-1-2, 4-5)
     
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