28, sooner or later

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by Sport Billy, May 13, 2016.

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  1. Kavok

    Kavok New Member

    Roma
    United States
    May 18, 2017

    Correct. Of the cities still putting forth a serious bid, Detroit is the only one where it could make sense to walk away from MLS if they don't get bid 25/26. Gilbert could very easily take the stance of "Well, with no MLS, I will just build a 5th and 6th tower on the stadium site, still make plenty of $$$, and call it a day".

    For about every other city bidding, if they don't get a franchise they very well could go back to the local leaders, and probably get something better under the scenario that they just missed out for 25/26, and that adding something extra could put them over the top for 27/28. This is not the case with Detroit.

    There is a reason the Detroit stadium project has an associated $$$ amount so much higher than any one else's stadium. And simply put, in Detroit's case, you are not going to get a better bid next year, and likely will get a much worse bid. So if MLS wants Detroit, now is the time to do it.
     
  2. 30King

    30King Member+

    Jul 22, 2013
    Rocklin, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    But why would he? If he was willing to put all the time and effort into the bid in the first place, he won't walk away over a delay. You're not thinking this through.

    Like I said, Detroit is a lock, assuming the jail swap is agreed to. Whether 25/26 or 27/28, he'll know where he stands by the end of the year. Your point is moot

    and this makes no effing sense
     
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  3. Kavok

    Kavok New Member

    Roma
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    Q: Why would Gilbert walk away over a delay?

    A: The Detroit bid is being put forth by Gilbert and Gores. Let's talk about each billionaire.

    Gilbert is the land developer, and wants the jail site to be redeveloped to make some money, and also for there not to be a jail built (thus bringing down property values on the nearby property he already owns). Including a MLS stadium now makes it easier for the county to justify giving him the land, and would also make for a good addition to his development. But most importantly to Gilbert is that somehow the site gets developed soon, MLS or not.

    Gores is the true soccer fanatic, and has millions of dollars to run a team. However he has minimal experience in property development. However he stands to gain financially by owning a MLS team in a large market, and would gain all the revenue that a pro sports team can bring to their owners. That is Gores angle.

    Thus the Gilbert/Gores pairing is basically Gilbert building the stadium and making money from the construction and downtown redevelopment. Whereas Gores gets his money from the MLS team itself. Basically Gores is the team President and "leases" the stadium from Gilbert.

    So to finally answer your question of why would Gilbert "walk away", if MLS isn't guarenteed by getting team 25/26, Gilbert can walk away and redevelop his site with something else and make money without MLS. Or he can wait, lose money because the site isn't being redeveloped, and hope for team 27/28. Gilbert could very easily walk away.
     
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  4. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or he could start building the 3 other buildings that are part of the plan while waiting for MLS to decide on 27 & 28. If Detroit doesn't make 27 & 28, then he could reconsider the land that was meant for the stadium.
     
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  5. 30King

    30King Member+

    Jul 22, 2013
    Rocklin, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This is how much sense you are making:

    channing-tatum-white-house-down-gifs-8.gif

    Stop while you are behind
     
  6. CharlottetownFC

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    Charlotte
    With Nashville's plan meeting a little opposition, and Raleigh having some trouble, is it possible that the SE is left out all together? (Save Miami, if that happens).
     
  7. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    This is what happens when kids try real hard to show how "smart" they are....

    ....and don't understand what they are really showing.;)
     
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  8. Red Card

    Red Card Member+

    Mar 3, 1999
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It takes longer than 59-89 days to get a stadium plan done. :)
     
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  9. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That last 24 hours is really productive. Imagine what would be accomplished if time frames were 61-91.
     
  10. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    pretty awesome to see nashville come from arguably bottom of the 12 teams to a near lock for one of the next four expansion teams. If its Sac and Detroit this time, it will certainly be Nashville and Cincy next (barring san diego or st louis pulling something together).

    I do not understand MLS's apparent lack of interest in San Antonio. I just dont get it. Everything about that place has the feel that it would be an area that would do real well. The "not downtown" stadium would be extremely short sited if that was the hangup there given the makeup of that city. hopefully theyre in the 29-32 range. The league would be better for it if it was.
     
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  11. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One would think MLS would like San Antonio. It's fast growing market, has a lot of Hispanics, has the Spurs ownership who are a great organization, and a solid stadium plan. I don't think the city has a lot of public transit, so being on the outskirts really isn't minus - everyone would be driving to the stadium anyway.

    But ultimately I don't think MLS seems all that interested. I don't think San Antonio has a high per capita income or a lot of A-list corporate sponsor opportunities. The attendance struggles of the other Texas teams might give some pause as well. And long term if MLS does decide to have a 3rd Texas team, I think they might be more interested in Austin anyway, who they often name dropped on lists of interesting cities.
     
  12. tallguy

    tallguy Member+

    Sep 15, 2004
    MoCoLand, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that Garber and the MLS Brain Trust prefer Austin as the 3rd Texas MLS team.
     
  13. whiteonrice04

    whiteonrice04 Member+

    Sep 8, 2006
    I think Nashville gets in this round (25 & 26) and is the first announced.
     
  14. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Sunny San Diego
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dumb. Austin couldn't even keep their USL team but are preferred over a city with arguably the best ownership group in American sports.
     
  15. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because Holt/SSE likes to operate quietly, it will never be known how close they come; either nothing happens, or it's announced on a Monday and by Wednesday everyone says, "Well, of course he was going to get a spot."
     
  16. Len

    Len Member+

    Club: Dallas Tornado
    Jan 18, 1999
    Everywhere and Nowhere.....I'm the wind, baby.
    I''m sure Beckham wishes he had used this approach.
     
  17. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I'm not sure Beckham ever had that choice.
     
  18. Blong

    Blong Member+

    Oct 29, 2002
    Midwest, the real one.

    If San Antonio invited Garber and entourage to visit the city in for a coordinated gushing session, they would be there in a heartbeat.

    Unfortunately, neither the city nor the ownership group appears to be particularly interested in moving things along quickly. Or at least publicly.
     
  19. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Link? Where is there any evidence that MLS has expressed a disinterest in San Antonio?

    And you all do realize MLS is now in a "show us what you got" expansion mode.

    If you want to get into hypotheticals based on nothing, a better question would be "why is San Antonio uninterested in MLS"
     
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  20. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no link, but heavily implied, and I think thats a fair assumption to make. And assumption is further validated with the "show us what you got" expansion mode. Its almost like San Antonio wants MLS to come to them. They gotta do something soon.......i mean even Charlotte and Raleigh attempted to do "something" to appease the MLS Gods (whereas Detroit, Nashville are moving mountains, and Cincy isnt doing too shabby themselves)
     
  21. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I honestly think you're delusional on this point. I don't think there's any evidence that MLS cares one way or the other about most of the bidding cities. (Possibly Miami aside). If they get excited, it's because of the ownership group looks like a good fit and the stadium plan looks doable and the potential fan base looks like it's ready to follow in Toronto, Seattle, and Atlanta's footsteps.

    If Nashville's ownership and government were in San Antonio, I think you'd see plenty of "interest" in San Antonio right now.

    The question has never been "why doesn't MLS like San Antonio?". It's "What's wrong with the San Antonio bid?"
     
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  22. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps MLS is just playing it close to the vest, but when they list cities and developments they are excited about I almost never hear San Antonio mentioned. They definitely are still a plausible selection. I just have the sense they'd rather go elsewhere.
     
  23. Initial B

    Initial B Member

    Jan 29, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    Didn't the Spurs contract with the City when taking over the Scorpions stadium say they had to have an MLS team within 7 years? Well, they have 5 years remaining. I'm guessing that in 2021 MLS is going to request bids for spots 29-32 and San Antonio will be a frontrunner then.
     
  24. 30King

    30King Member+

    Jul 22, 2013
    Rocklin, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    MLS plans to have 28 teams by 2022 (World Cup year). They wanted 24 teams by 2018 (World Cup year). But alas,......Miami. (See a pattern though?)

    They will begin their final phase of expansion leading up to the US hosted-2026 World Cup (which will be a PR orgy as you've never seen before), and will add teams 29/30 (and maybe 31/32) in that timeframe. I've heard this from a couple sources, but YMMV.

    Garber saying that further expansion (beyond 28) won't happen on his watch? A play on words, since he plans to be retired by 2022 ;)
     
  25. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    a clever and fair play of words to get the ball moving on other markets. I think he played it perfectly. It gives the impetus of competition, and will force markets, like Nashville, who might not have been as speedy before, into fifth gear to get this done, and maybe even rewarded with getting all their boxes checked quickly.
     

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