23 Tickets to Brazil

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by flem16, May 18, 2011.

  1. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    On his pre-injury form, Holden was as "lock" as you could ask for. But he just did an ACL, an injury that very often players don't bounce back 100% from. There is absolutely no guarantee that he'll be the same player next year or the year after that he was this past season.

    Holden's a fighter who has come back strong from injuries before, so I'd bet on him. But calling him a guaranteed lock without taking the circumstances of his knee into account is fantasy.
     
  2. Wessoman

    Wessoman Member+

    Sep 26, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe the entire team can skip the tournament. I'll get back to this.

    But yes, you are talking about last cycle's results. Mexico didn't look very good and turned it around.

    That said, yes this is a 23 tickets to Brazil thread. I am countering that this thread is fast becoming obsolescent, considering that I am losing faith that our nation can even qualify.

    Qualification is not easy, despite what seems to be the mantra that you and Heist seem to exhume.
     
  3. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Those were SGE losses, before Aguirre and before Chepo.

    And, if Chepo keeps on coaching like this, he is not getting canned.

    BTW, the US was a missed Carlos Pavon PK away from needing a point vs. Costa Rica.
     
  4. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    And in the 2002 cycle we were a goal at home away from crashing out of the WCQ before the Hex. Finished third in the Hex. That was definitely the worst qualifying cycle of ours that I've ever seen (but I wasn't really watching in 1990). The qualifying cycle of 2010 was far, far better all around.

    The best time we had in qualifying has to be the 2006 cycle. Which is not a cycle I'd like to repeat.
     
  5. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is, EVEN IN ALL CAPS. Its not sad. Your hyperbole all over this board is sad.
    We didn't "barely advance out of a Gold Cup group". Take a look at the standings again and also note that even a tie against Guadeloupe would have gotten us through.
    As far as not advancing out of any group at the WC, there's no reason and no evidence you have to support that. The only evidence is to the contrary from the 2010 WC. That may or may not be relevant. If we get a tough draw we might not advance, but that will be true for us for the next few Cups if not forever.
     
  6. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    True. I guess I was thinking that even a Holden who isn't 100% will still stand out on this team, but we've certainly seen enough U.S. players derailed by injury that I guess I shouldn't assume anything. I'll amend my opinion to say that, as of right now, Dempsey is the only "guaranteed" man.
     
  7. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And let's remember that Holden had only been starting in England for about 6 months when he got hurt.

    Yet people are so eager to toss out guys like Bradley, Bocanegra, and even Dempsey who have years and years of European and national team success under their belts.

    Holden is actually lucky to have not played in big games yet where he would inevitably disappoint the frothing masses on BigSoccer just like every player on USMNT who isn't Messi or Rooney does.
     
  8. jakepc42

    jakepc42 Member+

    Mar 26, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Holden was one of the top middies in England this year and another year like the one he had and he'll be playing for a top club.. The hype is real.
     
  9. Wessoman

    Wessoman Member+

    Sep 26, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As Jakepc said, the Holden hype is real. English fans are notoriously harsh on their players, the fact that Holden is so well loved tells me something. His play on the field told me something far more.

    I am not eager to toss out players. But I am eager to toss out the idea of "Starters". Dempsey, Bradley and Bocanegra can not be called Starters. NOBODY should be called a "Starter".

    You play well for your club, and you're in good form, you get called up. No player should ever be considered automatic.
     
  10. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What? Seriously? That's like a 63%* success rate. Better than a coin toss, but come on, most people on these boards who pay attention could probably do that good.

    *I'm not a math wiz, but I'm pretty sure I'm within a few percentage points. ;)
     
  11. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remember, 4 years is a long time. Even the three years we've got between now and the 2014 WC is quite a long time. I doubt I'd get more than 12 out of 23 right this time. Injuries right before the cup can impact things. It probably was a little bit easier in 2007 for the 2010 WC I'd say. There were more guys who were young in 2006, but likely to stick around for 2010.
     
  12. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I agree. IF (and it's a big "if") his knee holds up and he is able to regain the same level of form as he had last season. Another full season with a similar level of play, and without an injury to scare off suitors, and a major club will come calling.

    But it usually takes time to regain the same level of form you had pre-injury after a long injury layoff (I would not expect that level of form for most of next season), and an ACL tear often hampers careers to the point that often players aren't ever quite as mobile as they were.
     
  13. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    True, but "better than a coin toss" is pretty good when you're talking about 4 years and the aging process and all the injuries and club moves, and managerial moves at clubs and weirdness, plus guys who don't develop, or unexpectedly bloom late or re-emerge, or dual nationals who switch national fed allegience, and guys dropping completely out of soccer (ie Szetela) and such that can happen in that time.
     
  14. Arid_Torpor

    Arid_Torpor Member

    Jun 1, 2006
    Durham, NC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But it's hard to say you're rebuilding when more than 70% of your starters from the last cycle are still there this cycle. Obviously bad things could happen, they could get injured, go out of form, whatever. My only point is that this isn't a rebuilding cycle anywhere except the back line.

    Yes, all of our starters could bomb out wherever they are. Four years is a long time. But if that's your definition of rebuilding, then every cycle is a rebuilding cycle. The fact is, our starters at 7 of 10 field positions from the last World Cup are still strong going forward, quite likely through 2014. That's not rebuilding, by my definition.

    Rogers could grow into an awesome winger? c'mon, tell me you don't really think that's true. Obviously a lot can happen in that time. But really, the only position where we desperately need something good to happen is CB. Everywhere else, we'll be fine if we avoid something bad.

    The US is a world cup semifinal team? For real? lulz

    You seem to forget that one of those results was last week. Was last week part of the 2010 qualification cycle? I get my days mixed up sometimes.
     
  15. giffenbone

    giffenbone Member

    Jan 22, 2006
    Raleigh, NC
    Yeah, Chandler escaped my mind. My bad. There is some speculation he may switch allegiances...and that would hurt us big time. But if not, he's going to be our #1 at RB by the end of the cycle I'd bet.

    Some people fall off less than others with age. Hopefully Dolo stays strong into his mid 30s.
     
  16. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing about Cherundolo is, even though he's still one of our best players at a somewhat advanced age, it's not like his career has been remotely injury-free.

    Unfortunately I feel like his clock is ticking furiously at the moment, the injury last night being a bad omen.
     
  17. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Here's a guess:

    GKs: Howard, Guzan, Rimando
    RBs: Chandler, Cherundolo
    CBs: John, Gonzalez, Whitbread, Ream
    LBs: Lichaj, Shea
    CMs: Bradley, Holden, Jones, Edu
    AMs: Donovan, Adu, Gyau, Gatt
    STs: Altidore, Dempsey, Agudelo, Wood
     
  18. Wessoman

    Wessoman Member+

    Sep 26, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Try watching the Gold Cup again. Thanks for playing. I can only judge our side by it's current form. What you are asking is judging Italy 2010 based on 2006. There is a difference.
     
  19. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like playing. You are assuming that no one at all emerges as a good player for us.
    In the Gold Cup we had one bad game and lost to Panama (and even that game could have very easily been a tie). We beat everyone else except Mexico and shut out everyone else except Panama the first time and then Mexico.
     
  20. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shutting out Concacaf teams is not that big of an accomplishment.

    Geez.
     
  21. Curva Nord

    Curva Nord Member

    Mar 29, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly, which is one reason why we won't have a major problem qualifying for 2014.
     
  22. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Yep. And, a heck of a lot better than a roll of a die, or dice, if there are two or more. Better than a spin at the roulette wheel. Better than playing the California lottery. Heck, it's even better than spinning that wheel that was on that old board game, Life.
     
  23. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Pretty funny. But, I gotta say, Holden is coming off a major injury. And, Dempsey is getting older. There is only one guaranteed, and you know who he is ;-)
     
  24. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly my point. Haters can't have it both ways.
    I don't like Bob as the coach, I think we should get rid of him. But let's be clear about what he can and can't do. I know he can easily help us qualify and even get us out of a group at the WC (unless we really aren't able to find ANY reinforcements for the older players). I haven't seen anything in this tournament to convince me otherwise. He figured out some things in these games and helped the team rebound from a poor performance and then we got beat by a clearly better team. A better tactical team and a much much better skill-level team.
     
  25. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a hater. I don't have any serious problems with Bob because we only beat Guadalupe 1-0. We will qualify for the WC.

    I have problems with his tactics in the CC final, the GC final, and the WC 2010 round of 16 match.

    In our biggest matches he looks out of his depth tactically and puts the team in position to fail.

    Yes I know hen won the GC once but that is 1 for 4. Not good enough.
     

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