2022 World Cup Qualifiers CONCACAF

Discussion in 'CONCACAF' started by Robert Borden, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Some sources indicate that Concacaf qualifiers will begin in Sept 2020 and there will be no hex. The announcement of the format would be in the next days:

    https://www.diez.hn/laseleccion/122...-inicio-eliminatorias-mundial-2020-qatar-2022

     
    IASocFan repped this.
  2. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    This is for a 32 team World Cup, correct? So CONCACAF would still have the 3.5 slots.

    A non-Hex format is going to be interesting if true. Two final groups is the only other likely system.

    I guess you could go with 4 groups and then have a playoff to determine the exact spots from the four group winners.
     
    Paul Calixte repped this.
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    There's talk that FIFA wants 2022 World Cup to be expanded to 48 teams. If it happens, that's 6 teams from CONCACAF.
     
  4. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    We'll see if that actually happens. But if that is still in the cards then CONCACAF doesn't really have a plan set for qualifying yet.
     
  5. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This change would certainly be an interesting one. Don't know if it will be a GOOD one ... but that's another question altogether.
     
  6. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    That crook on the picture wants as much money as possible before he get "Blattered". And he will finish like Blatter.

    What is more likely final round format for 6 spots? Two hexes or three four-team groups?

    And what would 2026 quals look like without confederation's only heavyweights? :ROFLMAO:
     
  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That assumes that FIFA keeps it at 3.5.
    Last time CONCACAF used 22 matchdays excluding the interconfederational playoff. The World Cup draw will be in April 2022, so starting in September 2020 only allows 18 matchdays.
     
  8. LordofBrewtown

    Wigan Athletic
    United States
    Nov 19, 2018
    A possibility to determine 6 spots: 41 Members, only 35 recognized by FIFA. Top 5 get byes. Remaining 30 divided into 5 groups of 6. Top 2 teams from each group of 5 advance to round 2 with top 5 teams who had byes. That's 15 teams. Round 2 is 3 groups of 5, with top 2 from each group qualifying. 6 Qualifiers. 18 Matches maximum (10 round 1, 8 round 2).
     
  9. LordofBrewtown

    Wigan Athletic
    United States
    Nov 19, 2018
    2nd option: Top 4 teams receive byes into 2nd round. Remaining 31 divided into 8 groups (7 groups of 4, 1 group of 3). 8 Group winners advance to 2nd round with 4 top ranked teams. The 12 teams are put into 2 groups of 6 (Hex's). Top 3 from each group qualify. 6 Qualifiers, 16 matches maximum (6 in round 1 10 in round 2).

    Could also work for 3.5 spots: Each Hex winner qualifies. Two 2nd place teams playoff (home and away) for last auto bid, with Loser getting the half spot/playoff against another confederation. That would be 18 match days needed for the 2 2nd place teams.
     
  10. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Especially with the Nations League, I don't think there will be two group stages that require 10 matchdays (each team would have 2 matchdays off in your Round 2). Furthermore, I don't know if there has ever been a World Cup Qualifying group stage in any confederation with more than 4 teams that was before the top teams entered. Your second proposal is reasonable if Concacaf gets 6 teams, but if Concacaf get 3, 3.5, or 4 in 2022 and fewer than 6 in 2026 because of three hosts, a proposal for Concacaf with 6 spots might not work until 2030.
     
  11. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    When there are 6 spots, they could go UEFA style, 6 groups (5x6, 1x5) with winners qualifying. :D
     
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  12. jagum

    jagum Member

    Montreal Impact
    Venezuela
    Jun 20, 2007
    Panama City, Panama
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    Yesterday in an interview Vic Montaglini President of Concacaf said that Nations League will determine the seeding of WCQ and suggested that if Qatar WC 2022 remains at 32 teams, Concacaf could keep the Hex format.
    This seems contradictory, because in another interview he said he preferred that there were not so many teams of concacaf eliminated in the last qualifying phase.

    https://soundcloud.com/afootballpodcast/that-time-united-returned-to-form
     
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  13. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #13 EvanJ, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    I think the smilie means you're not serious. Then the top teams wouldn't play each other and Mexico, hopefully USA, and Costa Rica wouldn't have any suspense that they would win their groups.

    FIFA requires that nothing other than the FIFA Rankings can determine WCQ seeding. Furthermore, seeding will have to be determined before the Nations League, which starts in September.
     
  14. jballgebs

    jballgebs New Member

    Jul 12, 2017
    Any update on a potential format?
     
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  15. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No. Wikipedia doesn't have a format. It gives a start date or period for each confederation and says "Mid-2019" for Concacaf. If "mid" means June, then the format and draw must be decided ASAP, especially with talks about including more teams (possibly all teams) in a group stage. Some countries use only one stadium, but the USSF has a right to be mad if they have to decided a venue with about one month of notice. With September, October, and November used by the Nations League, June has the only available matchdays before next March. Gold Cup 2017 started on July 7. Gold Cup 2019 starts on June 15, so if there are WCQs in early June then players will be with their national teams continuously for over a month, and MLS would hate that. One possibility would be to have weaker countries play WCQs in June but not teams in the Gold Cup. The problem is that if FIFA keeps its requirement that WCQ seeding cannot use anything other than FIFA Rankings, there are teams who didn't qualify higher in the FIFA Rankings than teams who did. Excluding Martinique, the Gold Cup has 15 teams who can play WCQs. There's flexibility in what month rankings can be chosen, but Guyana and Bermuda are tied for 23rd in Concacaf in the FIFA Rankings, so they're not going to be any recent FIFA Rankings with both of them in the top 15.
     
  16. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #16 Paul Calixte, May 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
    So according to reports, FIFA are stuck with a 32-team finals in Qatar for lack of a willing and suitable co-host.

    That leaves an interesting conundrum for Montagliani: how much does Concacaf want to shoehorn into 2020 and 2021? WCQ is clearly a priority, and can begin after the Concacaf Nations League (CNL) group stage, as early as March 2020 - I doubt any of the Nations League finalists would be obligated to play in the first round. But in that time,

    1) When do they plan on holding the next edition of the Nations League,
    2) Will they have a Gold Cup in 2021, and
    3) What format do they use for WCQ?

    My $0.02:

    1) The weird WC2022 cycle means that there's plenty of real estate in the calendar year 2022 to work with. I wouldn't be surprised to see the next edition of the Nations League punted to then - with October left fallow for pre-World Cup friendlies.

    2) I'd rather not, but I imagine that TV contractual obligations mean that the 2021 Gold Cup is happening regardless.

    3) If March 2022 is the assumed timeframe for the intercontinental playoffs, then I don't see how Concacaf waits until September 2020 to start WCQ without starting with several rounds of playoffs, leaving several sides to bow out after 2 games - in direct contradiction to Montagliani's stated goal of more meaningful matches for everyone. Plus, if Concacaf decided to have one more Hex after all, it would take up all of 2021, forcing their hands in terms of format.

    ---

    My suggestions for WCQ formats - one with a Hex, one without.

    Format 1 (Hex)

    - CNL Final Four (Mar 2020)

    - WCQ Round 1 (Mar 2020): 4 CNL finalists* get bye to WCQ semifinal round. The next best Concacaf side in the FIFA rankings gets a Round 1 bye; the remaining 30 sides get paired for home-and-away playoffs.

    - WCQ Round 2 (Jun 2020): 15 Round 1 winners + the team with the Round 1 bye get paired for home-and-away playoffs.

    - WCQ semifinal round (Sep, Oct, Nov 2020): 8 Round 2 winners + 4 teams with the bye from the CNL get drawn into 3 groups of 4. Group winners + runners-up advane.

    - WCQ Hex (Mar, Jun, Sep, Oct, Nov 2021): 1 group of 6, Top 3 to WC finals, 4th to intercontinental playoffs

    - Gold Cup (Jul 2021)**

    - CNL group stage (Mar, Jun, Sep 2022): Same format, with team involved in intercontinental playoffs using up both byes in March 2022

    - CNL Final Four, Gold Cup qualifying playoffs*** (Mar 2023)

    Format 2 (No Hex)

    - CNL Final Four (Mar 2020)

    - WCQ Round 1 (Mar, Jun, Sep 2020): 4 CNL finalists* get bye to WCQ semifinal round. The remaining 31 sides get drawn into 7 groups of 4 and 1 group of 3. All 8 group winners + the best 4 runners-up advance, borrowing from UEFA by dropping results from the bottom side in 4-team groups to judge among the runners-up.

    - WCQ semifinal round (Oct-Nov 2020, Mar 2021): 12 Round 1 survivors + 4 CNL finalists drawn into 4 groups of 4. Group winners + runners-up advance.

    - WCQ final round (Jun, Sep, Oct 2021): Winners + runners-up from semifinal round groups drawn into 2 groups of 4; group winners qualify for WC finals.

    - Gold Cup (Jul 2021)**

    - WCQ playoff (Nov 2021): Runners-up from final round play home-and-away; winner qualifies for WC finals, while loser heads to intercontinental playoffs.

    - CNL group stage (Mar, Jun, Sep 2022): Same format, with team involved in intercontinental playoffs using up both byes in March 2022

    - CNL Final Four, Gold Cup qualifying playoffs*** (Mar 2023)

    ---

    * Or 3 finalists + next best FIFA-affiliated CNL performer if Martinique make it to the Final Four

    ** Either way, I don't see any time for Gold Cup qualifying playoffs ahead of the 2021 edition, as much as I'd like to see them happen. So for that edition, Concacaf will just let everyone in League A + the group winners in League B qualify.

    *** In my view, the winners and runners-up in League A groups + the winners of League B groups should qualify directly, while the teams relegated from League A should be drawn against the four runners-up from Group B for home-and-away playoffs for the final berths.
     
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  17. LordofBrewtown

    Wigan Athletic
    United States
    Nov 19, 2018
    Personally, I hope CONCACAF doesn't go that route. I think it's hurt the African team's performance in World Cups. Reasoning being that the goal of the confederation should be to get the best teams to advance. Fewer groups with 2 teams advancing helps this. Otherwise, teams are really at the mercy of a draw/potentially getting 2 of your better teams in the same group where only 1 can qualify. That's especially true when seeding based on FIFA rankings occurs a few years before teams finish up qualifying, and teams change (new players break through, older ones retire).
     
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  18. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fortunately, it looks like experimenting with that format in the u-20 qualifiers (leading to a whole bunch of blowouts in the first round) convinced Montagliani to abandon that extreme of the spectrum.
     
  19. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #19 EvanJ, Jun 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Having 6 groups would have blowouts and too many meaningless games. In the last two Hexagonals, all three games on the last matchday were meaningful. For 2010, two games were meaningful. For 2006, two games were meaningful, and USA vs. Panama was irrelevant to qualification but relevant to USA getting bragging rights for finishing first. For 2002, one game was meaningful. For 1998, Mexico, USA, and Jamaica qualified before the last matchday.

    Edit: The draw will be on July 17, which is in 38 days. Hopefully within a couple of weeks the format and seeds are announced.

    Edit Again: Wikipedia gives that as a date for Round 2 in Asia. Paul Calixte posted that there won't e be one draw for all confederations. I hadn't been reading the big Qatar 2022 topic in FIFA and Tournaments because I care about the format and schedule for every confederation for every World Cup, but not about stadium construction or anything about Qatar or where any World Cup is played.
     
  20. jagum

    jagum Member

    Montreal Impact
    Venezuela
    Jun 20, 2007
    Panama City, Panama
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    Tomorrow is the next FIFA ranking, This ranking could be used for the distribution of the pots for the draw of July 17.
    So far, nothing is clear about this. But I remember reading that the teams that had a good position in the CNL, would be benefited in the draw. I suppose it could be that two draws are made
     
  21. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After posting that the draw will be on July 17, I read Paul Calixte's post in FIFA and Tournaments that each confederation will have a separate draw. Wikipedia says Concacaf will start qualifying in 2020, so I wonder if they will do the draw until after the Nations League Group Stage ends in November. They could do the draw in December like how World Cups normally do after qualifying ends in November (Qatar will be an exception). People have criticized Concacaf for not using the newest FIFA Rankings for draws.

    I'm going to post in the CONCACAF rankings thread.
     
  22. LordofBrewtown

    Wigan Athletic
    United States
    Nov 19, 2018
    What format is used, and the exact timing of rankings used is going to be very interesting. Costa Rica could pass the USA in the rankings after the Gold Cup, and Honduras fall out of the top 6 - which could lead to interesting groups if the format changes away from the 3x4 into the hex. Also, T&T is in a tailspin, and could potentially fall out of the top 12 - if they can regain their form in the next year, could make a tough group for whoever gets them.
     
  23. barnabyjonez

    barnabyjonez Member

    May 28, 2011
    The Valley, Saba
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think the Hex is unfair as the semi-final groups are usually unequal. Whoever has Mexico has a major disadvantage. I think the final should be the Oct. It would have 8 teams. You could have the minnows play in the first round per usual. In the second round you could have four groups of six with the top two teams making the Oct. This allows everyone other than the rank outsiders have a minimum of ten games.
     
  24. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Non-starter: with the Nations League this fall, there's nowhere near enough time to run an Octagonal unless you have three straight knockout rounds before (March, June and September 2020), in which case most Concacaf sides would only get to play two games - Montagliani would be run out of Concacaf with torches and pitchforks if he signed off on it.
     
  25. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With three Semifinal groups and a Hexagonal, there's no difference between being seeded second and third. Costa Rica passing USA would only matter if there is a round with two groups.

    Even without the Nations League, I don't think the top countries would want to play 20 qualifiers (6 in the Semifinals and 14 in the Octagonal).
     

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