2020 Roster Thread

Discussion in 'Columbus Crew' started by TrueCrew, Oct 12, 2019.

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  1. Pauncho

    Pauncho Member+

    Mar 2, 1999
    Bexley, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One million, fifty thousand Garber Bucks (minimum, maybe more) plus an international spot. I sure hope Darlington exceeds our expectations.
     
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  2. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #502 kgilbert78, Nov 13, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
    Now we know why it took a bit--they wanted to get him here and have photos and interviews ready.

    Maybe--but it's just money. And play money to some extent. Nice to see our owners willing to put come cash on the line.
     
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  3. jairadballerina

    jairadballerina Member+

    Sep 15, 2004
    C-Town
    This could be a steal if TAM ceases to become a thing after the CBA (though I assume these types of situation would be covered and some compensation switches hands)
     
  4. west ham sandwich

    Feb 26, 2007
    C-bus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's unfair
     
  5. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dont have any idea how one would research it but that's surely got to be one of the most expensive e trades in MLS history, if not THE most expensive.
     
  6. catfish9

    catfish9 Member+

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  7. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. A lot of Garber bucks to be sure.

    About what I'd expect from you, Bill.

    As expected, no acknowledgement you screwed the pooch on reading the artcle (8 guys ahead of Lalas!).

    No acknowledgement you were 100% wrong in saying Williams didn't play until after Lalas got loaned.

    When the loan happened, Williams was starting or making the 18 every time he was healthy. Lalas was a not even in the 18 benchwarmer or an unused sub.

    The staff clearly rated Williams above Lalas at the time. Feel free to disagree. But the reality is the reality. Williams was playing and Lalas was not.

    Now, Lalas certainly had a nice half season in Colorado. But so did Keita for us.

    Bottom line: at best, Lalas will have to battle for a starting spot here (with Keita). He is the starter for the Rapids. Thus he likely prefers Colorado. And makes it likely he bolts next year for nothing if he is not the starter (and maybe if he is).

    And Williams can play both CB spots and is a serviceable backup. He has been a starter for us on some deep PO runs.

    Mensah/Keita as starters with Williams backing them up plus a cheap vet 4th and/or a draft/young CB (who may also be off cap) seems the way we are leaning.

    Again, YMMV, but like I have been telling you from jump on this, the FO seems to prefer Keita. Once that decision is made, gobs of TAM/GAM for a reserve CB is a no-brainer.

    Further, Keita is a HG player, does not count against the salary cap, or a Senior Roster spot. In a close call between the two, this helps his case.

    None of the relative transfer values of Williams v Abubakar (not Abubaker, you dolt) impacts that calculus.

    Again, I get you think Lalas is the better player. You may be right. But if the FO disagrees, he is surplus and likely gone if a haul of funny money is offered.

    Lastly, though I give you credit for the SNL reference, you do realize that in that skit she was the one making sense and Aykroyd was the loudmouthed idiot? Anyway, I'll gladly continue to play Curtin to your Aykroyd. Carry on.
     
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  8. speedye1

    speedye1 Member+

    Dec 31, 2002
    Per the Oregon Live when he went from Portland to Atlanta. Not sure what all the XAM equates to, but dollars seem in line.

    "If Portland does somehow receive the $600,000 in future TAM in addition to the $1.05 million in guaranteed allocation money, it would be the most allocation money to ever exchange hands in a single trade in MLS history."
     
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  9. speedye1

    speedye1 Member+

    Dec 31, 2002
    I am not so sure he gets this option. If he turns down a legitimate offer from the Crew after 2020, I don't see MLS letting teams drive his price up against each other. I think he would still need to try and force a trade.
     
  10. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Best guess at our current protected list:

    1. Zardes, 2. Santos, 3. Nagbe, 4. Diaz, 5. Valenzuela, 6. Mensah, 7. Trapp, 8. Room.
    -------------------
    9. Jimenez, 10. Afful, 11. Abubakar (if not traded), 12. Cadden (if necessary).
    ----------------
    Artur and/or Josh Williams if we have the spots open.

    Francis/Argudo seem to be the only other guys under consideration.
     
  11. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You may be right. I was assuming he'd be a FA after this year. Who knows how the new CBA will work? But under the current rules, he is not old enough for FA.

    I think it is 28/8 at the moment?
     
  12. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Is Nagbe immediately the best player on the team?

    I mean who are the other reasonable arguments? Mensah? Santos? Zardes? A healthy Milton? Maybe Diaz, but I need more than a dozen games? Maybe Room, but do we really want to say a goalkeeper?

    The fact that some are complaining that the fake money we gave up for Nagbe is steep (and I was initially one of them!) should look at our roster and identify 2-3 better players. Likewise, this exercise (and the reaction to the Nagbe acquisition) should let people know just how far we are from being a championship contending team.
     
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  13. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isnt that something else in his favor? He must still be an HG meaning he doesnt count against the roster. That's huge, at least right now.

    I've never been sure whether a traded HG brings the roster exemption with him, but if not that makes him worth more to us than to someone else.
     
  14. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I don't know why this made me laugh so much.

    Maybe it's because Archer, when cornered, falls back on the same tired tropes over and over again. He reminds me of an American tourist in Europe, who when flustered that the waiter doesn't understand English, thinks raising his voice at him and speaking slower and pointing will help him understand.

    It's sad, really.
     
  15. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Santos is our best player right now. I like Nagbe, and soccer isn’t all about goals and assists, but he provides none of those. That, and I’d say it’s pretty universally accepted that Nagbe has failed to fulfill his full potential. Hard to say a player like that isbour best. Santos was a difference maker last year.
     
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  16. Jaybir

    Jaybir Member+

    Feb 24, 2014
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Yes. IMO.
     
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  17. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lalas? A HG?

    I have never seen him listed as such. He is a SR guy.

    Keita and Crognale were our HGs last year. JJ Williams and Opoku were GAs. So none of those guys counted vs the senior roster. Or the cap. Though it looked like Crognale had aged off the reserve roster & was going to at least be a supplemental guy.

    Hamilton was a HG for TFC. But does not count as such for us. Though he did not take up an INT spot, either (weird MLS rule).
     
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  18. speedye1

    speedye1 Member+

    Dec 31, 2002
    He was drafted from Dayton, don't think you can be a draft pick and HG from my understanding. Unless the cba changes more than I would expect, his rights are with the Crew until they decide to do something with him.
     
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  19. Jaybir

    Jaybir Member+

    Feb 24, 2014
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Until he laces them up on this team, you are right to withhold the crown. And the first three players that Hang mentioned are legit contenders. I have no insight into Nagbe's head. But IMO, if he is coach-able and the coach knows how to use him, he is dangerous as hell. I'm hoping Porter does. Nagbe has that magic on the ball. He creates space from traffic jams and his unexpected breakthroughs are very disruptive to defensive organization. As a defender, it's scary thing. So let's see if he can use that to deliver the ball to some pretty speedy guys that we have now. I do see him as more of an Artur replacement, although I'm open to see anything. Also, he can score goals. More than any of our recent DM's, low bar though it may be.
     
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  20. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I totally get the take that since Nagbe plays MF, is not a destroyer, and won't provide many/any goals and few assists, he cannot be our be our best player. Just not impactful enough.

    Heck, I tend to agree with it.

    But I think he he is the only player on our team (save perhaps Valenzuela) who is ELITE at what he does.

    In terms of a connector/possession type #8, he is probably the best in the league. Plus he can break out of tight spaces with pace and unbalance the D.

    Now, perhaps it is fair to say he could have developed in to more of a G/A producer and did not. But let us not lose sight of the fact that he does what he does better than (almost?) anyone. Though what he does do is fairly narrow in scope.

    I do wonder how well he meshes with Trapp, who certainly is not a Chara/Larentowicz type DM.

    I found this blurb from Doyle interesting, citing an Athletic piece, saying the Crew are listening to offers for Trapp, who would prefer to leave MLS.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/11/12/armchair-analyst-mls-2019-season-recaps-bottom-eight

    Lots of us have said CM was our biggest area of need. We may be in for a complete (or near complete) rebuild in CM.
     
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  21. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #521 Bill Archer, Nov 13, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
    You guys keep depressing me with how little you understand about the game. Embarrassing.

    Make an effort to pay attention to the game.sometime. You might learn something. Although with a bunch of you I'm not sure that's possible.

    As the game moved out of the Spain-inspired posessionis everything, complete 50 passes per minute style - Berhalter is a big fan which is why hes going to fail - everyone is now trying to high press you to death. The trend has been to play for the midfield turnover and quick score. How many times has this bitten the Crew in the ass?

    Which, again, Berhalter still has no answer for but that's another story.

    The way the best teams in the world.are beating the current high-press craze is with a midfielder ( 2 is better) who can hold the ball against high pressure.

    To beat it you have to have someone who can receive the ball.under pressure, protect it a d successfully move it into the attacking third.

    Which is what Nagbe does. He might be the best I MLS at it. Roldan I Seattle, Kaye for LAFC, guys who can beat the high press, a la Modric and Kroos.

    Anybody who says Nagbe hasn't lived up to his potential knows jack squat about soccer. Nagbe is exactly what modern teams need right now and hes why Atlanta was so successful. They're sweating bullets over losing him.

    Nagbe is a difference maker if he never scores a goal.
     
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  22. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can’t see Trapp and Nagbe playing together TBH. If it’s a two man midfield, not a single tackle will be won and we will be run over for 90 minutes every single game.

    If it’s a three man midfield, Trapp CANNOT play the Chara role as a lone #6, it’s just not his game, period. And I have a hard time believing that we should play two guys at the dual #8 role were neither guy will get goals or assists. If Trapp plays as a lone Beckerman style #6... yikes. On top of that we’d need to sign a box to box midfielder like Taider in Montreal who actually gets forward into the opposition ox and scores, and I don’t know if that’s happening.

    As far as Nagbe goes, yes, his ball control and acceleration out of danger is fantastic, elite level in MLS. That being said, not only does he not get goal or assists (fvck thos BS hockey assists MLS counts just to pump up their own players) he doesn’t make decisive decisions in the final third at all. He is the king of the 5 yard pass. It’s not a bad thing, it’s his game. Hopefully Porter has come around to the idea that Nagbe isn’t a #10 or winger (as he tried to make him in Portland FOR YEARS) and he accepts that Nagbe is a middle third of the field player, ideally in a 4-3-3.
     
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  23. Kyle Crew

    Kyle Crew Member+

    Feb 23, 2013
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m sure Atlanta will be just fine and sign another player for $15 or 20 million to replace him.

    Let’s be honest, Nagbe is a cog in the machine, nothing more. He’s a very elaborate cog, but a cog nonetheless. He was successful in Portland because he had Valeri and Adi in front of him, and Chara behind. He was successful in Atlanta because he had *takes deep breath* Josef, Pity, Almiron, Villalba, Barco, and Gressel in front of him, and guys like Larentowicz and Remedi behind. If you put Nagbe in a team where he is the best player, he’s passing in to no one, and he lacks the mentality to create or be decisive himself, simple fact.

    Like I said, I like Nagbe and I like the move, but without players BETTER than him being inserted into the team, he’s nothing by himself. Hopefully Santos continues his good form, Diaz continues to develop, and Zardes remains good enough. Can they play in a front three? I don’t know. We still need either a #10 to play in front of Nagbe or a true box to box threat to play beside him, because Nagbe has proven over MULTIPLE seasons that he is great in the middle third, but damn near useless in the final third.
     
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  24. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This sounds like an elaborate defense you make up for someone you like when you can’t pinpoint something more specific.

    I’m not sold. Never have been. He’s a player whose legend exceeds his talent.
     
  25. Tobias C

    Tobias C Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Mar 6, 2014
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They're really hyping Nagbe up. I guess I dont mind. Hes a player theyll be able to market to the state/region (USMNT guy from Cleveland!) as long as hes decent for us. As others have said, hes not exactly going to be our savior or anything, but he is an upgrade over Artur. I'm fine and satisfied with the signing. I'm now even more interested to see if anything happens with Trapp because I kind of think something needs to happen. Hope we can move him on to Europe without him biting off more than he can chew.
     
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