2020 Olympic Qualifying Team

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by AutoPenalti, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Probably have two quibbles.

    On Trapp: I think there's a contingent of fans, and definitely MLS insiders who like him, and plenty of us who think he's MLS quality and that's it. I don't think he's poor, I just think he's basically a very good player/standout for MLS circa 15 years ago, but now down the line, he doesn't really distinguish himself as a First XI international in the minds of anyone other than CBUS fans, the former CBus head coach, and MLS types and a minority of fans who like him. I don't think there's any consensus whatsoever that he's First XI caliber for the senior team (there is a contingent that would support that, including the HC, but it's kinda like Ricardo Clark and Robbie Findlay started in the Round of 16 in 2010 but was there any consensus to that? Nope. Heck, the message boards almost imploded when that lineup was announced. Trapp is a similar kinda player to me. There's people that think he belongs, at least against certain competition and certain kinds of formations, and there's people that don't.

    Morris: Kinda similar but in reverse for me. In this case I kinda think you're being harsh. He forced his way into the senior team conversation in '14-'15 w/apparently sterling performances in scrimmages, and camps, and then some great friendlies, had a real nice rookie season, struggled in '17 (though had his Gold Cup moment) then saw a year of his career wiped due to a serious injury (out what, fall of '17 until late winter early spring of '19), and now has started like gangbusters. I think to my mind that suggests that he's looked good for the US in '15 and '16, and early in '18, and had a '17 to forget. For me he's not really fringe, he's clearly a guy you'd call in to a camp for the US if the World Cup was in June of 2019 or 2020, and he'd be in that group of what 35 before they make the final cut down to 23. He'd be in the mix.

    The biggest concern, and based on your post you seem to feel the same way, is that we still don't know exactly what we have in him. Is he as good as his best days, is he as bad as his worst season? Is he something in-between? Is he a super-sub? Is there room for growth? I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I do know that he opened a door this past month that had been closing nearly shut the previous 18 months or so, so who knows at this point. Maybe closing that door to begin with was quite a bit too harsh. I honestly don't know, but I do think he's in the mix, especially when you consider the dire situation at Forward:

    Altidore: Always hurt.

    Wood: Limited player or just always saddled with bad teams, or something in-between? I like how much of a fighter he is and think he could be a new Charlie Davies type fighter w/better play around him (think guys like Pulisic, Weah, Sargent, Adams, McKennie and other kids bubbling up? I tend to think he'd look much better w/them, then he has w/the mostly garbage we've been running out around him for three years.

    Novakovich: At this point I just assume he doesn't look good in camps (kinda like Trapp must look good in camps to get as much run as he does)

    Sargent: Really young, coaches seem to be waiting for more playing time.

    Weah: Winger/Forward: Seems on the cusp.

    Pulisic: Winger/Forward/AM: Stud.

    Zardes: The Keith Richards/Cockroach of our Forward position. Seems impervious to all evidence of his lack of top end talent when it comes to having a place in the squad.

    All the Scrubs Berhalter keeps bringing in instead: I need not name them. All the wing forwards/hacks that he insists on calling up over better talent.

    W/this situation in play, Morris seems ready made for a call up for at least the next six months going forward if not next 18.
     
  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Colombia outclassed us home and away without calling any of their Europe based U23 guys.
     
  3. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We played them pretty well in Colombia actually. I went to that game and the Colombian fans kept telling us, 2 of 4 Americans seemingly in the stadium how they didn’t realize the US team would be so good. We were completely destroyed in the home game though.
     
  4. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I’m not really trying to argue their places in the Senior them but more judging how good this team was based on their development since.

    I don’t think it’s debatable that Trapp was then and has turned into one of the better players of the 22 on the field of that game.

    Morris. Who knows really what he is. He’s only had one healthy pro season. At the time he was coming out of a pretty low level but dominating and certainly his mls rookie year seems to indicate he should have been in top form for that game.
     
  5. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
    Yesterday, CONCACAF announced the classification of the Caribbean and Central America. On the Caribbean side, 16 teams will participate and 2 teams will advance to the final round. On the Central American side there will be 6 teams and of those 6 teams will qualify 3 for the championship.
    Something strange is that they talked about Costa Rica as the venue for the championship, but they will participate in prequalification, which means that the venue will change according to the teams that qualify for the final part of the campionship.
    The championship will be played from October with the dates to be confirmed.
     
  6. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    So will be the same format as normal pretty much, two groups of eight. The winners of the semifinals qualify for the Olympics.

    I will assume if in October that some of this tournament will take place during FIFA dates (10/7-10/15). With the MLS schedule moved up, all clubs are off the weekend sandwiched by these dates. The MLS playoffs begin 10/19.
     
  7. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    You have to wonder if part of the deal for letting Adams go back to Leipzig early in March, was to get him released for Olympic qualifying in October.
     
  8. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I just couldn't and can't ever see that, though perhaps a FIFA open date might make it more viable. But honestly, I find it nearly impossible to believe they'd allow him to be called in for qualifying if they had any games on the horizon, especially w/the way he's performed. He's far too integral to that team, heck, they've got a chance at the Champions League on top of that (actually are they locked in now?), and there are a pair of group stage matches in October as well. That just looks like no chance whatsoever he's let out for Olympic Qualifying.
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yeah, I don't see it.
    Particularly with the number of USMNT games he's going to get in the summer/fall.
    Both Adams and McKennie are highly unlikely to be with the U23s at any point. So our top two central midfielders won't be there. I'm to the point of just understanding that those guys are senior USMNTers. Period.

    The Olympic qualifiers are in a really awkward time of the year for the US pool in terms of MLS, Europe...………..and hell even the USL and NCAAs (hopefully irrelevant, but true nonetheless).

    We also might have a bunch of our youngsters in new situations for the new Euro season, so who knows about their availability? Where will Weah be? Where will Haji Wright be? Will Sargent, Mendez, Ledesma, Richards, Soto, Gloster and others have broken into Euro first teams...…….thus making their releases less likely? Will MLSers like Pomykal be in Europe then?

    Its unknown and its going to be undeniably tricky.
     
  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I actually wonder of the minnow teams of CONCACAF got together and planned these dates to make it harder on the big dogs.
     
  11. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Sounds like a conspiracy.

    But a fun one that is possible.
     
  12. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know. I'm not even sure they have a mechanism to pull it off but the dates are so bad it makes me wonder.
     
  13. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
    Something to take into account. A few hours ago, I recalled that the U-23 team was scheduled to play the Pan American Games in July, and it was a surprise to see that the groups were announced a week ago and that the United States was not there. The replacement will be Mexico.
    Some Latin news talked about the United States refusing to participate in the tournament. If that is true, it will be a new error on the part of the USSF. It would be great to see if anyone can confirm this.
    We have a coach, so I do not know what would be the reason why the USSF refused to participate.
    For those who are also interested, the women's team will not participate in the tournament either. but for a logical reason of time, since they play the WC.
     
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  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    In case you're not aware of it, the relationship between the USA and Latin America is at an all-low, worsened by the Venezuela business, the Russians and Chinese meddling in South America, and the Lima Group refusing to follow the USA in the blockade. Since the Pan-American games are in Lima, I'm surprised the USA is participating at all.
     
  15. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
    I understand the point, but the United States was affected nothing more than in football, in the rest of the sports will participate.
     
  16. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    The U.S. hasn't played men's soccer at the Pan Am games since, what, 1995? The decision, however, disappointing, is hardly surprising.
     
  17. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I remember us beating Venezuela and losing to Mexico and Bolivia in the 2007 Pan-American games, in Rio.
     
    Winoman and Dave Marino-Nachison repped this.
  18. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
  19. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
    what would be the USSF's justification for not sending the team?
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Who knows.......................................

    We won't hear a justification from the USSF, but its probably a similar reason to why we don't participate as a guest team at the Copa America. Getting players released is probably pretty darn tough. The timing isn't all that great. The games are in late July/early August.

    That means any MLS player that's actually needed by an MLS club isn't going to be released. Any U23 that's part of the USMNT will be participating in the Gold Cup. Euro/MLS clubs probably wouldn't want our top youngsters participating in both the U20 World Cup and the U23 Pan Am games.

    When you start trying to figure out your player pool for this type of event under those restrictions.....................the quality of your player pool starts looking pretty bleak.

    You can make a roster. And I personally think it would be worthwhile. Even if you identify just one player to carry forward to Olympic qualification, it'll have been worth it. And of course getting players released for the actual Olympic qualification is going to be hard. So expanding the player pool has benefits.

    But anyway, I can't bring myself to get worked up by the PanAm games........................
     
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  21. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
    I understand that point, and I would say it is very understandable if it looks that way.
    If it were USSF, it would send a team of university players and the USL. There is a very decent level even if it does not look like it. It would not be necessary to send team A to this event, since most of the other countries send teams of very low level and the first objective in my opinion would be to see how the players respond to the idea of the coach before winning the competition.
    But I would give some importance to the tournament as the U23 team will not have competition after the two friendly matches and it would be nice to see what the coach's idea is and see how the team is doing before playing the qualification championship.
     
  22. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The quality of the drinking water over there, for all we know.
     
  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Mexico manages. It's a good experience for youngsters to learn to deal with the pressure of playing an actual tournament abroad, where people are passionate over the sport.

    But our federation only cares about money. They'd be glad to host every Pan-American soccer tournament, even if the USA didn't take part, just because of the money it'd leave for them.

    At this point they're probably making more money from the friendlies we host for everybody else than from the games the USMNT plays as local.
     
  24. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do any players Mexico uses in these competition ever amount to anything? Also every organization has a budget. Why should the fed spend money on something that won't materially help either the men's or women's national teams when they could use that money elsewhere where it does?
     
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