2019 WWC Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by lil_one, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1776 lil_one, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    There seems to be some confusion. The notes in the WWC forum were about Steinhaus, not Umpierrez.
     
  2. https://streamable.com/hzjng
    Nope, not a penalty. Just look at the trajectory of the ball. It's moving in the direction the Dutch player moves her foot to kick it. The Swedish player is moving her foot in the opposite direction, so clearly with the intent to either block the Dutch player from reaching the ball or to simulate a foul. In fact the Swedish player herself is moving in the opposite direction of the ball.
    Excellent call of the VAR.
    I read that on the Swedish tv the pundits also called it a non penalty.
     
  3. oxwof

    oxwof Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Are you talking about the Swedish player's left foot? To me, it looks in the second close-up angle at 9 seconds like the ball moves in response to her foot before the Dutch player trips her. She literally played the ball with that foot, or if she didn't she came within an inch of it. I don't understand how you can look at this play neutrally and say that the Swedish player had no intent to play the ball.
    I think you'll find that highly skilled attackers routinely move in slightly different directions from where the ball is rolling.
    Soccer pundits (assuming that what you read is accurate and not a slight mistranslation of "this was not called as a penalty") are known the world over for their excellent foul-recognition skills. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    There's you're problem, he's not anywhere near neutral. :D


    He's wrong though (mostly, at least). I'm not sure what they said directly when it happened but upon replay they all said it should have been a penalty and the resident LotG expert (Jonas Eriksson) said that he was surprised that VAR didn't send it down for review as he thought it was a miss by the referee (not sure how up to date he is on VAR protocols though).
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The ball is within playing distance of the Swedish player. In fact, she’s in possession of the ball. She has every right to shield the ball by putting her foot between the ball and the tackling opponent. The “blocking” of the tackler is what every good attacker in the world does there, with the precise hope of drawing the foul. This has been happening since the dawn of the sport.

    I’d ask if you’re new to the game, but it’s pretty clear you’re just being a partisan hack about this. It’s too bad, because you’re losing credibility for when you comment on incidents where you’re a neutral.

    And again, this can still be a proper decision by the VAR to not make a recommendation (the VAR doesn’t make “decisions,” unless you’re saying it was a decision not to make a recommendation). But arguing this isn’t a foul and a credible penalty claim is ridiculous.
     
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  6. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    In a distant 2nd place to the partisan fan! :coffee:
     
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  7. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone watch US-Jamaica last night?

    How can the Jamaica goalkeeper wear primarily yellow when that is what the field players are wearing? Has that rule changed too? LOL.
     
  8. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Umpierrez with Frappart as fourth official.
     
  9. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Pustovoitova gets the 3/4 playoff. Jacewicz is 4O and Zwayer is VAR.

    This is reminiscent of the situation with Archundia at WC 2010. He was saved throughout the knockout stage, presumably for the Final, and ended up getting the 3/4 playoff. Not sure it was such a good idea, both then and now.
     
  10. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Any word on VAR for the final? We know it won't be Makkelie.
     
  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vigliano or Turpin probably.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why not Irrati?
     
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Im just guessing Vigliano if it's Umpierrez and Turpin if it's Frappart.
     
  14. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Maybe because he was not forceful enough on the 'missed' penalty yesterday??;)
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it’s Irrati either way. FIFA doesn’t seem to care about nationality much. Remember Vigliano didn’t get paired with Pitana.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think FIFA thinks that was a missed VAR intervention.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    United States : Netherlands - FRAPPART (FRA)

    Umpierrez is FO.

    Cerro Grande is VAR. Could be a statement on Irrati in the semifinal.

    By the way, Nesbitt is AVAR2 on the 3/4 playoff.
     
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  18. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #1793 balu, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    Can’t say it’s too surprising.

    Is Umpierrez the first referee (male or female) to be involved in two WC Finals? She was also 4O last time.

    Could be a statement on Irrati in the SF, or could be the sentiment that putting him on two WC Finals in consecutive years would be too much (or a combination of both).
     
  19. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't anyone else guessing that they would honor the host country by using their referee in the Final?! Frappart's not my absolute favorite but she should do well with these two teams. With one small caveat - the US plays the more physical and aggressive game. Not dirty by nature but rambunctious and sometimes adrenaline gets the better of them. If the big yellow card moment (or even....) comes early in the match, is Frappart a referee who will reach for the cards then?

    From a game management standpoint, I respect the US and Netherlands as two teams that a referee wouldn't have to worry too much about escalation. If a referee went yellow instead of red, the team that suffered the foul might be unhappy but wouldn't be bent on retaliation and the team that committed the foul wouldn't see it as a license to repeat or escalate. They are, to me, the opposite of cynical teams in that regard and why they are worthy of great respect. Most of the best women's teams, thankfully, are like that and it's one of the things which still makes the women's game so refreshing.
     
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  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1795 MassachusettsRef, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/2019-wwc-final-match-predictions.2104634/#post-37908492

    It’s always a possibility in these tournaments. At the WC level, though, the stars have to align. Very few host countries have had referees capable and deserving and available—ever really.

    On the women’s side the American referees would have been good in 99 or 03, but they had other problems.

    It’s been the same problem on the men’s side for awhile: in any tournament where the referee might be good enough to be considered for the final, their team has made the semis or further. 1982 seems like the only thing close to a possible exception, but looking back on respective pedigrees at the time, the Spanish referee didn’t appear to be in the same realm as his colleagues.
     
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  21. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    In a tournament where we have been wrong so many times, how fitting it is that we were all wrong one last time :D
     
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  22. Did you read my first few minutes of the match description in the Dutch forum?:)
     
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  23. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No concern from FIFA that the US eliminated the Referee's home country?
     
  24. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    In 2011, the Final between Japan and USA was refereed by Bibiana Steinhaus, whose country Germany was eliminated by Japan in the quarterfinal. Steinhaus did an excellent job.
     
  25. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    None from my end. She's an excellent referee and very deserving of the final. I thought Umpierrez would have the whistle with Frappart as the fourth, but either combination would be very deserving.

    From a political side, there was a balance of a deserving referee from the host country vs. a deserving referee from South America. I personally thought FIFA would side with Umpierrez since at least the last two finals referees were from Europe, but I was wrong.
     
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