2019 WWC Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by lil_one, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 lil_one, Dec 3, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2019
    The referees for the 2019 FIFA WWC have been selected:

    The referees (27):

    AFC:
    1. JACEWICZ Kate (AUS)
    2. QIN Liang (CHN)
    3. REIBELT Casey (AUS)
    4. RI Hyang Ok (PRK)
    5. YAMASHITA Yoshimi (JPN)

    CAF:
    1. ABEBE Lidya Tafesse (ETH)
    2. LENGWE Gladys (ZAM)
    3. MUKANSANGA Salima (RWA)

    CONCACAF:
    1. BEAUDOIN Marie-Soleil (CAN)
    2. BORJAS Melissa (HON)
    3. CHENARD Carol Anne (CAN)
    4. KOROLEVA Ekaterina (USA)
    5. VENEGAS Lucila (MEX)

    CONMEBOL:
    1. ALVES BATISTA Edina (BRA)
    2. CARVAJAL Maria (CHI)
    3. FORTUNATO Laura (ARG)
    4. UMPIERREZ Claudia (URU)

    OFC:
    1. KEIGHLEY Anna-Marie (NZL)

    UEFA:
    1. ADAMKOVA Jana (CZE)
    2. BRAZ Sandra (POR)
    3. FRAPPART Stephanie (FRA)
    4. HUSSEIN Riem (GER)
    5. KULCSAR Katalin (HUN)
    6. MONZUL Kateryna (UKR)
    7. PUSTOVOYTOVA Anastasia (RUS)
    8. STAUBLI Esther (SUI)
    9. STEINHAUS Bibiana (GER)

    Assistant Referees (44):

    AFC:
    1. BOZONO Makoto (JPN)
    2. CUI Yongmei (CHN)
    3. FANG Yan (CHN)
    4. HAGIO Maiko (JPN)
    5. HONG Kum Nyo (PRK)
    6. KIM Kyoung Min (KOR)
    7. LEE Seul Gi (KOR)
    8. TESHIROGI Naomi (JPN)

    CAF:
    1. KWIMBIRA Bernadettar (MWI)
    2. NJOROGE Mary (KEN)
    3. RAKOTOZAFINORO Lidwine (MAD)
    4. VICTOIRE Queency (MRI)

    CONCACAF:
    1. BOUDREAU Chantal (CAN)
    2. BROWN Princess (JAM)
    3. CAUDILLO Enedina (MEX)
    4. CHAVEZ Mayte (MEX)
    5. MARISCAL Felisha (USA)
    6. NESBITT Kathryn (USA)
    7. PERELLO Shirley (HON)
    8. YEE SING Stephanie (JAM)

    CONMEBOL:
    1. AMBOYA Monica (ECU)
    2. BACK Neuza (BRA)
    3. BLANCO Mary (COL)
    4. DE ALMEIDA Mariana (ARG)
    5. MASCARANA Luciana (URU)
    6. SACILOTTI Tatiane (BRA)
    7. TOLOZA Loreto (CHI)
    8. VASQUEZ Leslie (CHI)

    OFC:
    1. JONES Sarah (NZL)
    2. SALAMASINA Maria (SAM)

    UEFA:
    1. ARDASHEVA Oleksandra (UKR)
    2. COCKBURN Kylie (SCO)
    3. IUGULESCU Petruta (ROU)
    4. KOUROMPYLIA Chrysoula (GRE)
    5. KUNG Susanne (SUI)
    6. KUROCHKINA Ekaterina (RUS)
    7. MAGNUSSON Julia (SWE)
    8. MASSEY Sian (ENG)
    9. NICOLOSI Manuela (FRA)
    10. O'NEILL Michelle (IRL)
    11. RAFALSKI Katrin (GER)
    12. RASHID Lisa (ENG)
    13. RATAJOVA Lucie (CZE)
    14. RODAK Sanja (CRO)
    15. STRILETSKA Maryna (UKR)
    16. SUKENIKOVA Maria (SVK)
    17. TEPUSA Mihaela (ROU)
    18. TOROK Katalin (HUN)


    Assignments (Referee / VAR)
    Match Day 1
    Match 1 - FRA: KOR - Umpierrez (URU) / Vigliano (ARG)
    Match 2 - NOR : NGA - Jacewicz (AUS) / Makkelie (NED)
    Match 3 - GER : CHN - Beaudoin (CAN) / Irrati (ITA)
    Match 4 - ESP : RSA - Carvajal (CHI) / Vigliano (ARG)
    Match 5 - AUS : ITA - Borjas (HON) / Cerro Grande (ESP)
    Match 6 - BRA : JAM - Hussein (GER) / Dankert (GER)
    Match 7 - ENG : SCO - Adamkova (CZE) / Swayer (GER)
    Match 8 - ARG : JPN - Frappart (FRA) / Turpin (FRA)
    Match 9 - CAN : CMR - Ri (PRK) / Irrati (ITA)
    Match 10 - NZL : NED - Alves Batista (BRA) / Cerro Grande (ESP)
    Match 11 - CHI : SWE - Venegas (MEX) / Beath (AUS)
    Match 12 - USA : THA - Fortunato (ARG) / Vigliano (ARG)
    Match 13 - NGA : KOR - Pustovoytova (RUS) / Cerro Grande (ESP)
    Match 14 - FRA : NOR - Steinhaus (GER) / Zwayer (GER)
    Match 15 - GER : ESP - Monzul (UKR) / Makkelie (NED)
    Match 16 - RSA : CHN - Kulcsar (HUN) / Beath (AUS)
    Match 17 - AUS : BRA - Staubli (SUI) / Dankert (GER)
    Match 18 - JAM : ITA - Keighley (NZL) / Makkelie (NED)
    Match 19 - ENG : ARG - Qin (CHN) / Zwayer (GER)
    Match 20 - JPN : SCO - Abedbe (ETH) / Irrati (ITA)
    Match 21 - CAN : NZL - Yamashita (JPN) / Sanchez (ESP)
    Match 22 - NED : CMR - Reibelt (AUS) / Valeri (ITA)
    Match 23 - USA : CHI - Hussein (GER) / Turpin (FRA)
    Match 24 - SWE : THA - Mukansanga (RWA) / Zwayer (GER)
    Match 25 - NGA : FRA - Borjas (HON) / Makkelie (NED)
    Match 26 - KOR : NOR - Beaudoin (CAN) / Beath (AUS)
    Match 27 - RSA : GER - Braz (POR) / Turpin (FRA)
    Match 28 - CHN : ESP - Alves Batista (BRA) / Vigliano (ARG)
    Match 29 - JAM : AUS - Kulcsar (HUN) / Martinez (ESP)
    Match 30 - ITA : BRA - Venegas (MEX) / Cerro Grande (ESP)
     
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  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Important to note that Nesbitt is part of Chenard's trio. So only 2/3 of Koroleva's team got there, which raises questions about how the CONCACAF teams will be structured and if Koroleva gets a whistle. I personally think she will, but it's not an open and shut case like it has been for American referees in every other WWC.
     
  3. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm really interested to see how it plays out, too. I think after this last world cup, some of our expectations concerning crews and assignments (confederation exclusive / bias / overlap whatever you want to call it) are going to start being thrown out the window. They'll probably still try and keep the last couple rounds of each tournament free from confederation overlap where possible, but especially as VAR gets more prevalent, I think FIFA is acknowledging that it's never gonna be perfect.

    Unfortunately, because of match fixing issues and some of the changes we saw to major tournament referees late in the process, I'm also excited to see if they're willing to change some of their selection process to avoid people / areas that may be susceptible to those issues. While it may hurt us some years, I'm very ok with the potential for FIFA to say "Sorry, CONMEBOL, there's a really good crop of CONCACAF officials this cycle so we're taking more of them than we usually do", etc..
     
  4. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't Jair get a random AR at the WC? Do you know how many times they had worked together before that game?
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of the top of my head, no, I don’t.

    And he got the random AR but it was pretty clear that Marrufo was #4 on the CONCACAF list (except to those with an anti-American bias) so that arranged marriage made sense once the list was published.

    Here? Not as clear. Nesbitt could easily pull double duty so Koroleva gets a match. But that’s not a guarantee. If Koroleva is ranked 5th, rather than 4th, there might not be a strong desire to get her a match. I think that’s doubtful, but we will have to wait to see.
     
  6. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I think we have to also take into consideration who is making the assignments. With not one but two Americans on the FIFA Referee Committee, Koroleva will get whistle(s). Yes, with CONCACAF having five whistles and eight flags, the permanent trios system won't work out. Chenard has to be the #1 center from CONCACAF, however. I'm really happy to see Mariscal on the list, not that she wasn't an obvious choice in the first place.
     
  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I saw a Yoshimi, and now I've got to know if she's been taking lots of vitamins.
     
  8. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    As someone who has tickets to the semi-final and final, can't wait to see what happens.

    Re: Koroleva, I guess I'm surprised the USA is only sending one center ref. I've always had the impression that our excellence in women's soccer on the field included referees. Is there a notable omission? Karen Abt?
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our excellence on the field correlated with near dominance in refereeing for years. But we've been surpassed. Quite frankly, I have heard some people are mildly surprised Koroleva made it. I am by no means making a personal assessment that she's undeserving (particularly because I don't know enough about the other officials to even begin to make a comparison). But she has had hiccups and this wasn't an open and shut case like a Seitz or Hunt was in years gone by.
     
  10. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Wasn't she the one that failed to send a player off after giving them a second caution in a USL match a year or two years ago?

    Wasn't she the referee that gave an IFK coming out when the attacking team encroached on a penalty kick that went in on a USWNT friendly recently instead of ordering the retake?

    There is a catch 22 when it comes to female official development in the US. There are simply not enough to begin with. So when there are some that come along they get promoted either way too quickly when they aren't ready or they get pushed simply because they are female and not really any good to begin with.

    It's a big problem at the collegiate level. Everyone wants women officials on women's matches which is just understandable, but when assignors do put them on there and they screw up the coaches get upset and ask for 'ol reliable Joe college referee who has been refereeing the same way for 20 years back on their next game.
     
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  11. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Both your statements seem to reflect my view that we are woefully underserving female referees. Every meeting I go to is such a sausage fest. And the few female referees I've worked with have had to put up with some awful sexism from coaches. And it's such a double-edged sword. If they ignore the coach behavior, the coach gets away with it. If they act (as one did and dismissed the coach), they're seen as overstepping and being a "bi***". And both options drive them out of reffing.

    I hope that this is understood at the high levels and there's an interest in improving. Because the status quo is not working.
     
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  12. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Ill also add the USWNT has also been involved in every semi-final round since its inception. So for a US Referee to ever work a women's final we would need a near catastrophic crash by the women's side.
     
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  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Meh. My post certainly wasn't meant to convey that position.

    We're talking about developing one elite female referee for the World Cup. Do you think the development of female referees was better in the mid to late 90s, just because Hunt and Seitz were produced? There's actually a lot of work going in to identifying female referees and you now have events like girls DA and leagues like the NWSL... things that simply didn't exist in the old days.

    Also, if our performance at the World Cup level was a reflection of early identification and training on a mass scale, that would seem to imply that countries like Ukraine and Zambia and Honduras are doing fine in that regard. My guess is they are not.

    We're talking about the molding, shaping and promotion of a single elite referee and her ARs. Once the world catches up, we need to make sure our top candidates are not resting on their laurels or credentials or the "USA" after their name. That's all. The wholesale recruitment, identification, retention and development of female referees is an entirely different matter. Same goes for the men's side. Geiger and Marrufo doing well doesn't mean USSF is doing everything right in those categories on male referees.
     
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  14. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I agree with MassachusettsRef. Why did the US not get more than one referee? Because CONCACAF didn't choose more than one. There is a fair amount of politics involved at the Confederation level that may (and I emphasize the "may") overlay the ability of individual referees. E.g. the "best" Central American referee will go to the World Cup, even if they were #30 among all CONCACAF referees based on their assessments. Too many countries there and CONCACAF, like all of FIFA, is 'one country, one vote.' I'm not saying that the Central American selected is #30, only that it doesn't matter if she is or isn't.


    We can discuss individual referees chosen or not chosen on this forum until we are blue in the face (and we probably will) but I think we lose a lot of perspective if we don't look at who is selecting them and who is assigning them.
     
  15. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    This time, if Germany doesn't make the final, it's Bibi's final.
     
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  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure we're in complete agreement here.

    My point was the Koroleva didn't have a smooth WC candidacy and there was a real chance that the United States would--perhaps deservedly--get zero referees at this World Cup.

    Other than a couple of the European referees, I don't know nearly enough to render judgment on the other selected referees and their credentials and performances.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    She had it in 2011. I don't see this happening.

    There are several strong candidates.
     
  18. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As someone who primarily follows the women's game, some information and speculation for all those discussing Koroleva:

    Looking at the list, my guess is that it's either Beaudoin or Koroleva in CONCACAF's 5th spot. It's notable that Beaudoin just recently refereed the U17 WWC final (a tournament in which Koroleva got a group round match and a QF match; I'll add that Canada went to the 3rd place game, and the US was knocked out in the group stage). Also Beaudoin's normal crew consists of Jamaicans Princess Brown and Stephanie Yee Sing who are both on the list.

    Borjas is the other CONCACAF official besides Koroleva with only one AR named to the list, and as Borjas is a returning referee from the 2015 WWC, I would not be surprised if Mariscal is named as a part of Borjas's trio.

    There is another possibility though. Beaudoin could actually be seen as the #3 in CONCACAF, but has gotten fewer top assignments in this cycle because she had a child last year. In that case, Borjas and Koroleva are in the bottom two spots, and then it's a toss up on whose AR is in whose crew.

    All that to say, I enjoy speculating as much as the rest of you, and while I'm hoping that Koroleva gets to center a match, I'm not going to be surprised if she doesn't.
     
  19. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also the US hasn't had two center referees selected for the WWC since 2007. It's not a new thing.
     
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  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is great and very helpful analysis. It does track with some of the chatter I've heard.

    Do you know if Quan had any noticeable misses at U17s that would have got her dropped from Koroleva's crew? Knowing if Koroleva has one AR with her because of AR performance or if one AR simply got cut because Koroleva was selected in more of a support role would help unlock some of the mystery.
     
  21. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Well, I am not a Koroleva fan. I know too much that I'm not comfortable discussing here.

    But I think CONCACAF politics also guarantee that the US will have a referee crew at the WWC. Generically, the US is very, very highly respected for its women referees and the also very highly respected Europeans can't do Europe v. other confederations games. Who is the head of women officials for FIFA? Even a mediocre Koroleva is better than some of the other referees that you will see at the WWC. I'm looking at you, CAF!
     
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  22. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately, I didn't get to watch much of the U17 WWC this year but mostly just saw highlights, so I can't speak to individual performances.
     
  23. ptref

    ptref Member

    Aug 5, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This is true. I have seen many examples of this with both USSF and college over the years. This isn't to say that their aren't any good female referees. But some of them get thrown into a situation before they are ready, and it has negative results.
     
  24. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Question for those who know more about this than I...


    Anyone on the list aside from Koroleva and Steinhaus that have VAR experience?
     
  25. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Will they be using it? How much training did refs get for the Men's WC?

    From today's New York Times (behind a pay wall, first free articles are free).
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/sports/womens-world-cup-var-uswnt.html
    PARIS — As the men’s World Cup was winding down last summer in Russia, FIFA’s president, Gianni Infantino, used his final news conference to heap praise on the video assistant referee system, which had been used for the first time at the tournament. It had become, Infantino declared, “difficult to think about the World Cup without V.A.R.”

    It remains to be seen whether Infantino was referring only to the men’s game when he essentially called the technology indispensable.

    To the dismay of some top players and coaches in the women’s game, FIFA, the governing body of international soccer, has not confirmed whether V.A.R. will be used at the Women’s World Cup next summer in France. For some, the organization’s failure to take advantage of the technology — already widely used in men’s domestic leagues and coming soon to the UEFA Champions League, club soccer’s highest-profile competition — is yet another sign that the organization sees female players as second-class citizens.
    .........
    In an email, a FIFA spokesman said, “We are still in an evaluation phase,” but declined to comment further on the process. The organization may, however, be quietly working on a solution.

    This week, FIFA named the 27 referees and 48 assistant referees — all of them women — slated to work at the World Cup next summer.
    This month in Abu Dhabi, those referees will take part in the first of several training seminars leading to the World Cup. The current program for the first seminar includes sessions focused on video review, according to a person familiar with the schedule. That suggests that FIFA will make an effort to begin training the referees to use the V.A.R. system, though it offers no guarantee that it will be implemented next summer.
     

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