2019 Women's World Cup

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by firefan2001, Jun 4, 2019.

  1. firefan2001

    firefan2001 Member+

    Dec 27, 2000
    Oswego, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BalanceUT repped this.
  2. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No SJWoman world cup for me
     
    Bill Archer repped this.
  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :rolleyes:
     
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  4. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    I'll watch the matches and cheer for the US but Hinkle should have been selected.
     
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  5. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This thread's off to a killer start.
     
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  6. I don't get it.
     
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  7. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus

    SJW is a term for social justice warriors, ie people for whom everything is political. There was a controversy about player selection for the team. The US doesn't necessarily send our best players but rather the ones under contract with the federation.
     
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  8. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Not sure what his deal is since I see people scream "social justice warriors" at any cause that they don't think lines up with their personal viewpoint (in particular if it comes to race, gender, or sexual orientation). I have my own personal opinions on the team that makes me sort of hope they fall on their face, but most of that has nothing to do with what they want but how they have conducted themselves to this point.
     
  9. This I know, but that kind of abbreviation used SJwoman I couldnot make out what it stood for. Thanks for the clarification.
     
  10. Now you got my attention.
    What did they do to make you an antifan?
     
  11. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    I don't follow women's soccer. Could someone brief me on the controversies please? I know they are suing for equal pay. What else?
     
  12. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    firefan2001 repped this.
  13. The Orange Lionesses donot have to sue, as their pay will in steps increase to the level of the Orange Lions. The target year is 2023 to get even level pay.
     
  14. firefan2001

    firefan2001 Member+

    Dec 27, 2000
    Oswego, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought that ALL the USA games and maybe a few other weekend games would be on FOX, I glad I was wrong.


    GO USA!!!!!!!!
     
  15. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Glad to see WWC threads, but why in MLS N&A?
     
    aztec21bas repped this.
  16. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    People(me, myself and I) will talk about it in the weekly thread so there may as well be a catch-all thread for people who don't want to visit the women's board. Quite a few (me, myself and I) generally prefer this board over the women's board just as they (still me, myself and I) prefer this board over the US boards. Unfortunately we're not off to a great start here (they know who they are)...
     
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  17. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I wouldn't mind a thread where we laugh at stuff.

    For instance, did you see the new launch of apparel by a trio of players? That has to be a first. I don't think it's for charity.
     
  18. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There aren't any women from SJ on the team but Abby Dahlkemper and Tierna Davidson are from nearby Menlo Park and Julie Ertz went to Santa Clara U.
     
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  19. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough! I appreciate the response - MPN
     
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  20. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was hoping it was a joke, but then I searched his other posts, and he's just your average misogynistic shitstick.
     
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  21. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't say ant "misogynistic". these women act like SJWs and if they were men and acted like them i would equally criticize them. Im an equal opportunity hater.
     
  22. MinuteWaltZ

    MinuteWaltZ Member

    Indy Eleven
    United States
    Apr 19, 2019
    #22 MinuteWaltZ, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    I'll take a stab a this,

    Those that follow women's soccer, but aren't fans of the WNT generally have one or more of the following reasons:

    1) The lawsuit(s) / legal actions about pay. A very brief synopsis of the timeline and basic stances of those involved:
    -Way back in 2004 in the aftermath of the collapse of the WUSA, the WNTPA and the USSF negotiated a new CBA (it was expired and needed to be renewed anyway) the changed the pay structure of national team players to having a decent portion of guaranteed income with a lower portion of income from per diems, bonuses and per game appearance fees. This also added official contracted roster spots to the team that players need to be formally released from with the paying of a severance package.
    -In 2012 this CBA was extended by a memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the WNTPA and the USSF
    -In late 2015 / early 2016 the WNTPA took the stance the 2012 MOU was not intended as an extension of the CBA and that therefore that there was not CBA in place. There were implications that the players might strike in the lead up to the Olympics that year unless their pay was increased to match that of the MNT. The 2004 CBA, extended in 2012 by the MOU had a clause preventing strikes or lockouts for the duration of the CBA, hence the need to delegitimize the 2012 MOU if the players wanted to strike.
    -Now an item open to differing opinions: At this time several players made public statements about the differences in the MNT and WNT pay structures that some fans found misleading. These included comparing MNT and WNT revenues in 2015 (a peak year for WNT revenues vs a low post WC year for MNT revenues) to show that the WNT receives a lower portion of revenue than the MNT, ignoring the 2016 Copa America in MNT revenue projections but assuming an Olympic gold medal with CBA obligated victory tour in projected 2016 WNT revenue, overestimating number of games played by the MNT to increase possible MNT player income, and not addressing or acknowledging the structural differences in how MNT and WNT players are paid (MNT players are paid entirely on a per game/camp basis in per diems, appearance fees and bonuses, WNT players have lower per game/camp income but earn an annual salary if they are contracted to the team. This includes full paid injury leave, half time maternity leave and a severance package if their contract with the national team is cut. MNT players do not get these benefits)
    -Back to statements of fact: The USSF sued to get the 2012 MOU recognized as valid by a court to prevent a possible strike before the Olympics. This lawsuit was ruled in the USSF's favor
    -In late 2016 the WNTPA and the USSF negotiated a new CBA (the old one was set to expire, so this needed to be done anyway)
    -In approximately 2017 (I can't remember the exact starting point for this) the WNTPA initiated an investigation by the EEOC (Equal employment opportunity commission, a US government agency tasked with investigating incidents of employment discrimination) into the USSF's compensation of the WNT
    -In February/March of this year the EEOC returned it's decision. It did not find the USSF's compensation policies discriminatory and did not initiate any action, but did allow the WNTPA to begin a lawsuit (normally not allowed when under the effects of a CBA). This was somewhat of a "punt" ruling as it did not definitively clear the USSF or back the WNTPA allegations.
    -In march of this year the WNTPA initiated a lawsuit against the USSF claiming gender based pay discrimination. This suit is still ongoing.

    2) Due to the way the CBA is structured (see above), the WNT has a minimum number of players under contract receiving a guaranteed annual salary, regardless of number of games played. Additional players not under contract to the WNT (and therefore paid on a per game/camp basis) can be called in but only for a small amount of time before they must be upgraded to a contract with the WNT and a guaranteed annual salary. Due to the fact that the USSF is already paying a roster of 20-24 players whether they play or not this is an active financial disincentive to try out newer younger players. Added in that removing a player from contract (to replace them we a younger abler player) necessitates the paying of a severance package and older players can stay on the team getting playing time well past the time the team should have moved on. All of this means that player turnover is much lower than in the MNT and there are always a couple past their prime players every tournament included on the roster in favor of younger plays not yet under contract.

    3) In conjunction with items 1 and 2 above, some fans perceive an aura of entitlement from some of the players. Other behaviors that are perceived as supporting this assessment include: Players reportedly petitioning for a getting a regulation in the NWSL that no player not on the WNT may receive a higher NWSL salary than a WNT player receives from the NWSL (ie if the minimum NWSL salary for a WNT player is $36,000 then the maximum NWSL salary for everyone else is $35,999), WNT players treating the NWSL as an afterthought/not their real job and skimping on league duties (see Carlie Lloyd taking a month to return to the Houston Dash after the last WWC, Hope Solo retiring from the Seattle Reign as soon as her cut from the WNT meant she wasn't getting a bolstered NWSL salary), poor player behavior not being reprimanded by the USSF (Hope Solo and the van incident), and players having previously undermined and ultimately ousted coaches that were willing to call in a wider field of players (Tom Sermanni)

    Obviously a lot of this is open to interpretation and one person can dislike some of the above behavior by WNT players while another person will look at the above and say the WNT players have done nothing wrong.
     
  23. This whole thing, like the contracts mentioned in 2) is plain stupid.
    It's like you're running a pro club team, which a national team isnot or shouldnot be. You get into the national team by merit at the moment the national team has to form a squad for a match.
     
    EvanJ repped this.
  24. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #24 Bill Archer, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    Well, here's something that a lot of us can agree on. For a number of different reasons, a fair amount of American fans who, while not normally huge NWSL fans or whatever, would follow and support the US Women in this tournament, are this year hoping that they trip over their own egotism and arrogance and get sent home.

    The best players in the world - with the exception of Lindsay Horan - do not play for the US, and the reasons are systemic. We have unbelievable depth but have a system which closes itself to anyone outside a favored elite. It's time we (and they) start dealing with that reality.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Players are selected merit.

    Prior to the WC selection process only a handful of women outside of the USSF salaried players were allowed to be selected but that was raised for the World Cup and Ellis got who she wanted.
     

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