2019 Week 18 MLS Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wayne Rooney red card changed to yellow after on field review. I'm not at all convinced it was a clear and obvious error.
     
  2. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    MassachusettsRef repped this.
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hate that it was overturned.

    I also hate that I’m not surprised one bit it was overturned.

    It’s a challenge directed at the trailing knee with no opportunity to play the ball. I think that should be red every time.

    But it doesn’t tick any of the boxes we’ve come to associate with SFP in recent years. It’s not a lunge (it’s more of a desperate reach). One foot. No studs. It’s high, but with not a lot of force. I think the over legislation of SFP has left us in a world where professional referees see this is a clear yellow card. And I don’t think that’s a good thing. Because the more challenges like this are excused, the more they’ll occur and the more likely a serious injury becomes.

    This reminds me a lot of the red Mike Dean gave to Joe Ralls last season. It didn’t tick many SFP boxes, other than being so deliberate and so far away from the ball that red just felt right.
     
    RefIADad and ManiacalClown repped this.
  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another OFR results in a VC red for Lucho Acosta for a stamp.
     
  5. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
  6. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only thing I can think of is Saghafi thought Rooney went down the leg and then realized he didn’t after watching the video. It should still have been a red. It also was not a clear and obvious error to not give a red. However, like MassRef, as soon as I saw the replay that showed Rooney didn’t rake his studs down the calf, I knew the card would be downgraded.

    Rooney’s reaction upon seeing the red card told me all I needed to know. He knew it was a red. A player with his history of treatment of referees didn’t argue a straight red card.
     
  7. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The rare double yellow to red all at once in Colorado last night (well, technically it might have been after midnight and happened early this morning). Acosta picked up a yellow for a foul but the Cr (didn't see who it was) played advantage. By the time we hit a stoppage in play Acosta had talked himself into a second yellow for dissent. Yellow-yellow-red-good night all at once.
     
  8. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
  9. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Do the home side staff control what is shown on the replay boards? MN coach yells at MTL staff about replays being shown, one of the MTL staff ends up dismissed.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s a unique one.

    The keeper definitely challenges with his leg and takes away space from the attacker. But the attacker basically plays it laterally and keeps running almost forward in order to ensure contact.

    I think this is one that can go either way and is in the eye of the beholder. I do think there’s enough to justify punishing the goalkeeper, but also wouldn’t say it’s the preferred call. In the VAR world, it is now the already classic version of one that maybe shouldn’t have been called, but also shouldn’t be overturned as a clearly wrong decision.

    Will be interested to see what PRO says.
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like technical area staff? No. But the home team controls its own stadia, yes.

    You’re saying a coach acted irrationally?
     
  12. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Ha, that never happens :).

    Not sure if it was a coach but someone on the MTL bench was sent after getting into a shouting match with the MN head coach.
     
  13. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Near disaster averted in Columbus.

    After Seattle took the lead in stoppage time, the Crew equalized, but the flag went up. Looks like Mullins was just barely offside. And I mean BARELY. By about half of his head.

    Seems like this was absolutely one case where the flag should have been delayed so VAR was available. The whistle was blown before the ball hit the net, so AR1 was extremely fortunate that his call appeared to be right.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The final seven minutes in Atlanta was simultaneously a great advertisement and an awful advertisement for the league.

    Referee team handled it pretty well. Missed some opportunities for cautions (and one clear one) but all in all it was more of a “you want to be idiots? Go ahead” approach from Stott and team. Nothing reached the level of VC (which is why the Laurentowicz push didn’t get reviewed) so it all worked out. There was one off the ball foul that Stott played advantage on that I would have liked to see a yellow for, but it also would have drawn a line that probably would have required 5 cautions in the final 5 minutes.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait, what?



    The broadcast was over. Stott was laughing. And the one replay I saw of what I think this incident was involved the NYRB player pushing Laurentowicz three times, baiting him into pushing him back, and then falling theatrically when he was obliged. It looked comical.

    I really hope something else happened while the players were still on the field. Par for the course, MLS site still doesn’t have a red card in the box score.
     
  16. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    AFAIK, it was for this incident. Looks like a VC kick/stomp, but we don't have a closeup.

     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s the one I saw. Now if there was a foot stomp, that changes things.

    I wish/hope the Atlanta player got booked, at least.
     
  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Under the protocols, if VAR sent to the R for VC, he could still caution another player for USB identified in the review, right?
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. Everything seen during the OFR is subject to sanction.
     
  20. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Larentowicz red still isn't listed on the website boxscore so naturally there's no additional yellow shown either. That said, I think the Twitter feed usually mentions any and all misconduct issued so my guess is it was just the red.
     
  21. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quite the interesting last few minutes of the first half at Yankee Stadium. Second half just kicked off. lol.PNG
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    “Extra flag to checker”?
     
  23. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just Opta-speak for "we're not sure and we need to ask someone." Most of the time they don't even bother updating it later. In this case, it was for blasting the ball into outer space after a foul call so either dissent or delay.
     
    jarbitro, JasonMa and socal lurker repped this.
  24. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Valeri made the VAR signal because he thought it should have been his throw in. Hillarious. (40')
     
  25. WrathofDog

    WrathofDog Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Mar 12, 2019
    Was at the Atlanta match - center seemed particularly unprepared for a rivalry game with a lot of physical history that was national TV immediately after a world cup final. Without being a homer about particular calls, it was a very uncontrolled game with lots of baiting, diving and dissent. At one point after a second half call against RBNY, the center walked backwards for a good 40 yards with 3 or so dissenting RB players arguing in his face. Never seen that degree of timidity from a professional referee before.

    The Larentowitz call was a total mystery. The referee had already ended the game, the assistants had joined him and he had left the field. The PA announcer came on and announced that the "final play is under review" we didn't even realize that the center had come back on the field and was at the VAR screen until the red card was announced. There were no more than a half dozen players/trainers still on the field. VAR in that situation was just very strange.
     

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