2019 Week 10 MLS Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, May 1, 2019.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    05/01/19

    Philadelphia Union vs FC Cincinnati
    Talen Energy Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Kathryn Nesbitt
    4TH: Rubiel Vazquez
    VAR: Alan Kelly
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    05/03/19

    Colorado Rapids vs Vancouver Whitecaps
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Jeff Hosking
    AR2: TJ Zablocki
    4TH: Lorant Varga
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    05/04/19

    New York Red Bulls vs LA Galaxy
    Red Bull Arena (2PM ET)
    REF: Nima Saghafi
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: Jose Da Silva
    4TH: Rosendo Mendoza
    VAR: Silviu Petrescu
    AVAR: Thomas Supple

    Houston Dynamo vs FC Dallas
    BBVA Compass Stadium (4PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: Claudiu Badea
    AR2: Matthew Nelson
    4TH: Victor Rivas
    VAR: Christina Unkel
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    Orlando City vs Toronto FC
    Orlando City Stadium (4PM ET)
    REF: Robert Sibiga
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Christopher Penso
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Alicia Messer

    Montreal Impact vs New York City FC
    Saputo Stadium (5PM ET)
    REF: Baldomero Toledo
    AR1: Eric Boria
    AR2: Jason White
    4TH: Kevin Broadley
    VAR: Ekaterina Koroleva
    AVAR: Peter Manikowski

    Philadelphia Union vs New England Revolution
    Talen Energy Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Jeremy Hanson
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4TH: Marcos DeOliveira
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Robert Schaap

    D.C. United vs Columbus Crew
    Audi Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Ted Unkel
    AR1: Philippe Briere
    AR2: Felisha Mariscal
    4TH: Mark Allatin
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Kathryn Nesbitt

    Minnesota United vs Seattle Sounders
    Allianz Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Tim Ford
    AR1: Brian Dunn
    AR2: Cory Richardson
    4TH: Guido Gonzales Jr
    VAR: Ricardo Salazar
    AVAR: Eric Weisbrod

    Real Salt Lake vs Portland Timbers
    Rio Tinto Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Benjamin Hall-Volpenhein
    4TH: Farhad Dadkho
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    San Jose Earthquakes vs FC Cincinnati
    Avaya Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Dave Gantar
    AR1: Mike Rottersman
    AR2: Diego Blas
    4TH: Elton Garcia
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Peter Balciunas

    Los Angeles FC vs Chicago Fire
    Banc of California Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Fotis Bazakos
    AR1: Brian Poeschel
    AR2: Chris Wattam
    4TH: Alejandro Mariscal
    VAR: Kevin Stott
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    05/05/19

    Sporting Kansas City vs Atlanta United
    Children’s Mercy Park (9PM ET)
    REF: Allen Chapman
    AR1: Logan Brown
    AR2: Oscar Mitchell-Carvalho
    4TH: Rosendo Mendoza
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Notes: First on-field assignment for Benjamin Hall-Volpenhein and MLS debut for Elton Garcia.
     
  3. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    How many games has Diego Blas had? I know he did a Dynamo game last year, but I don't know if he's done more.
     
  4. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Well that is exciting. It is his scheduled debut. Last year he was a replacement for a sick AR.
     
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  6. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Also I noticed Ekaterina Koroleva getting VAR experience ahead of the WWC.
     
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  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I actually didn't realize he was in the mix beyond his emergency assignment last year. Clearly I've lost a bit of the pulse of south Texas since I got injured.
     
  8. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another (somewhat) young crew for Philadelphia-Cincinnati?
     
  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty young overall, but not without significant experience
     
  10. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    Per FIFA referee, no females to be used as VAR at WC bc they were not trained by FIFA. So even those with domestic experience won’t be used in that capacity.
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We'll see if that holds. I don't think FIFA has said they definitely will not use women in the VOR. They've just said they are inviting a bunch of male VARs to take part as VARs-only. Koroleva (and Steinhaus) are sort of in the same position that Geiger was last year... invited as referees who also happen to have VAR experience when there is an entire group of "VAR-only" officials.

    All that said, I don't see this assignment as WC prep. She had 5 MLS VAR assignments last year. This is her first this year. If PRO was trying to prep her for a tournament appointment we've known about all season, this wouldn't be her first MLS VAR assignment. Her prep is--appropriately--coming in NWSL and USL as a referee.
     
  12. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  13. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lots of VAR in Colorado-Vancouver last night. A PK give by VAR and a goal erased by it. Plus a non-VAR PK and a non-VAR red card.
     
  14. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Red Bulls won 3-2, with the winning goal by Derrick Etienne Jr. when Brian White was offside. VAR overturned it and made it a goal. Twellman said that White in involved in play in that he was in front of the goalkeeper. He said it should be offside. After the VAR, Twellman said it should be a goal because the goalkeeper moved the opposite direction as the ball. I don't know what referees here will think. Is there a difference between these?

    1. A goalkeeper wanting to move and being unable because of an offside player
    2. A goalkeeper staying still rather than moving to the ball because he couldn't see the ball to know where to go because his view was blocked by an offside player
    3. A goalkeeper diving the wrong way where the ball would have gone in without the defender in front of the goalkeeper
     
  15. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    1. I don’t know what you mean by being unable to move. If the OSP player physically interferes with the ability of the GK to move, he has committed an OS infraction.

    2. Blocking the vision of the GK such that he cannot make a play on the ball would be interfering with an opponent and warrant an OS call.

    3. I don’t understand the scenario.

    Being generally in front of the GK is not enough. The GK being worried about the OSP player is not enough. The Laws are very specific and limited about when an OSP player can be called for OS without challenging for or touching the ball. As described (I haven’t seen the play) I suspect that the AR flagged because he thought the OSP player blocked the GKs vision. The VAR and the R looking at the video apparently disagreed.

    (Side note: I would generally expect there to have been talk between the AR and the R on a vision blocking call, as the AR has a crappy angle. So it may be the R who initially thought the vision was blocked, and changes his mind seeing the replay.)
     
  16. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ted Unkel is having himself a game in DC tonight.

    Good grief.
     
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  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So is Will Trapp.

    The second review is easy.

    I can’t wait to hear how the first review went. If it’s the call on Zardes, it’s a misapplication of VAR protocols. That seems unlikely. If it’s the call on Trapp... well, given PRO just said the foul on the goalkeeper 8 yards from the net didn’t meet the VAR threshold last week... that’s going to be a tough call for PRO to defend.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ignore Twellman on this one. His heart was in the right place, but nothing he said helped alleviate confusion.

    White was clearly in an offside position.

    To be penalized for offside in this type of situation he either had to touch the ball (which was never really discussed and much closer than it looked but probably didn’t happen), challenge his opponent for the ball (didn’t happen), obstruct the vision of the goalkeeper (didn’t happen, though again, at the actual moment the ball was played this was somewhat close) or make a clear action that had an impact on an opponent. This last one is really the only one that LA could credibly claim. If White’s movements had an affect on the defender or goalkeeper, you might be able to claim offside. But it’s a weak argument here. I can see why the VAR and referee opted to allow the goal.

    Now, two things...

    Specific to Twellman, he was trying to explain the vision thing or at least thinking about it. He made a good practical argument, but it’s not exactly how the Law works. His argument was essentially that the goalkeeper’s vision was not obstructed because he dove the other way. That’s not exactly how it works. More importantly, that’s only one way that offside could have been triggered.

    Second, in UEFA, this definitely would have been offside. Referees have been instructed that being in an offside position and near the goalkeeper while standing in the goal area is enough to trigger offside (for the “clear impact”) clause. To my knowledge, this is not an interpretation being taught by PRO. So this is one of those weird situations where this goal gets allowed in MLS but ruled out in Champion’s League.
     
  19. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    First time that I can remember watching Ramy Touchan and overall quite impressed. He has a relatively low foul threshold, but I thought his game and man management were great. Hope to see more of him.
     
  20. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I thought when it first happened that the ball may have hit the player in the offside position on the way into the goal. But it was actually the defender's foot. So maybe the AR saw a touch but wasn't sure who touched it? In the end I thought it was correct to allow the goal.
     
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  21. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Squinting through the jungle of legs on the only angle we have, I *think* Trapp probably kicks Acosta's foot, but the severity is extremely questionable and was probably embellished. Curious if there was another good non-broadcast angle that would help with the force perspective.
     
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  22. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    I think Unkel might be taking some time off soon.
     
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  23. tog

    tog Member

    Oct 25, 2000
    Seattle
    Trapp 100% kicks Acosta in the left foot. This is what causes Acosta to go down. It’s a foul.

    I’m no Unkel fan, but we’ve all been there when players zig when we expect them to zag. It happens. These things are the result of being close to the play, which is, by and large, a good thing.

    The angle of the replays I’ve seen make it tough to see, but I’m pretty certain Unkel doesn’t even contact Acosta.
     
  24. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1 is what I meant. For 3 I mean that if the GK needed to move left to save the ball, cannot move left due to an OSP, and chose to move right because he didn't know where the shot was going. IOW, his failure to save the ball had nothing to do with the PIOSP.
     
  25. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Anyone know why the game tieing goal was disallowed in the Houston vs. Dallas match in stoppage time?

    Can't tell if it was via VAR or on the field originally. The highlights don't really explain much.
     

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