2019 U17 World Cup cycle

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by kba4life1, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Well the Uruguay game played out very differently than the Mexico game in that regard, so I don't think that we are going to be seen as a team that will "never hit it long." I think the Mexico game was more of an exercise than an attempt to get a result.

    Anyway, this is the wrong thread for this discussion.
     
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  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't entirely disagree, but it's worth noting that in his Extratime interview, when explaining what he did day to day, he mentioned that he worked with coaching staffs at clubs to develop joint development plans.

    I doubt every staff will do this, but it wouldn't shock me to see that Berhalter can influence development in conjunction with club staffs. He's also a very prepared and hard worked, so I'd bet there's more communication, video, etc., than some hands-off coaches.
     
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    If Allen Iverson was given a ball at age 2, he'd have been a world class player.

    There's a lot that would need to happen ... but it involves a massive cultural shift. Parents need to care about the sport, and play (and watch) with their children. There have to be enough competent coaching knowledge to get to children young in all walks of life. Enough kids need to play that they young kids don't stop playing and start playing the sport their friends play and care about. And there needs to be enough visibility to a lucrative professional career where kids can aspire to the sport as a career path.

    That's a lot. I think there's ways to accelerate it, but it starts small and takes time no matter what.
     
  4. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Luchi has talked extensively with Berhalter and says their styles are similar but not exact. He also said he has gotten a report from each age group coach about his players (except the full team which he expects to get soon). I imagine all coaches who had players involved in these three groups also had chats about their players. I also see what FC Dallas is doing as something Gregg wants to do with some differences. It involves knowing where a player should be making a run because of what just happened and passing to where they should be instead of where they are. Like a quarterback and receiver in football running timing routes. If either makes the wrong read, run or pass it looks bad but once everyone is comfortable it's lot harder to defend. Does the national team have enough time for players to be comfortable doing that?
     
  5. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    No doubt, but this communication has always happened and is a necessity for a coach (GB) who rarely sees the players he has called into camp. I would expect this communication between the NT and the clubs is at an all time high given that we still hold camps and play friendlies during the run in of the domestic league season. Clubs have to view call ups as providing value for players, especially if they are going to miss crucial matches.

    From a club coach's standpoint, it is also good to have another set of eyes on your player. Sometimes, when you are with a player 7 days a week in training and in matches, you can overlook things about their game that someone else can spot pretty quickly.

    All that to say, it is/should be a partnership when it comes to the player, and could help aid in pushing them up a level. The reason the communication typically goes through the club and not the player is to minimize the risk of the NT manager instructing the player to do something completely different than what the club coach has instructed - they don't have to be on the same page, but do need to be in the same chapter.
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Its amazing how many stories there are about Carrera's choice to the USYNTs in the Spanish speaking press. This author indicates that we "stole" him from Mexico. They are making a much bigger deal of this than we are.
     
  7. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    That’s because it means something to them. I think the way they go after players and the press their dual nationals receive is closer to the norm than the lackadaisical attitude we have.

    They seem to have a sense of pride for Mexican kids that are good. Their Fed props them up, the press writes articles on them, Mexican scouts are tweeting their Fed about players - they mean something.

    What do we get? A 3 line write up on a YNT match that happened days ago. Awesome.
     
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  8. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    the story on nico is dated yesterday while there were plenty of stories in the us soccer press about his choice to represent the usa when it was made. maybe it means something to a larger percentage of mexicans, but acting like it doesnt mean anything to soccer fans in the usa doesnt seem true
     
  9. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    #1409 bpet15, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
    Not talking about the fans. I’m talking about the press and US Soccer folks. I don’t think Nico is really the best example to use because his father is very well connected and probably plays a role in the media attention.

    That said, I am really speaking about the promoting of players. US can’t even provide a stream or twitter update much of the time, yet these other countries are putting out highlight videos of youth players and promoting them. If we want highlights of American youths, they come from fans like you or me that take time to put them out there.
     
  10. Tactical Hipster

    Dec 23, 2014
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Serious question since I don't really follow Mexican soccer, but do they really put out highlight videos of youth players and promote them? that's wild

    I did see that US Soccer has put out quite a few tweets recently about Dest, even though I know that's not really what you mean.
     
  11. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015

    We’ve lost like 1 kid to them in 5 years.
     
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  12. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    Again, that’s not my point. I’m simply saying we do a poor job promoting our kids. We also do a very poor job of letting the General US fans know what is going on with our YNTs - and in general we get very little info out of any of our youth camps.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    It's all about the Benjamins. US soccer and the sports writing community knows the statistics and metrics regarding their readership for USYNT stories. Its really small. On these boards we demand streams for USYNT games, and then when the stream is on you see 34 people watching. I can probably name the 34 :)

    For instance.......................on Tuesday. Even USMNT games are watched 5 times more in the Spanish Language. In the Dallas Spanish speaking media they wrote articles on just the fact that Carrera was in the process of making the decision, and then more extensive articles after he did so. For a player that even 99% of FCD fans don't know, and has less than 5 USYNT callups.
     
  14. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    #1414 Runhard, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
    Not sure if your number is correct and I know you are speaking generally, but if true, this is really much ado about nothing. Kids want to play for the US more than Mexico when given a chance at both countries.

    Again, if these number are true. Surely someone has the stats.

    I guess more specifically, is there a single Senior El Tri player that chose El Tri over the USMNT program, other than Johnathan Gonzalez who seems out of favor with the Senior El Tri player pool.
     
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  15. bpet15

    bpet15 Member+

    Oct 4, 2016
    Completely agree, which is why US Soccer, as the organization that’s stated goal is to “grow the game of soccer in the US” should be taking the lead. If the journalists won’t write and promote, the the Fed should be doing it. I wouldn’t even mind if they force fed us YNT info - it can only help them in the end and if they grow interest, the Benjamins will follow.
     
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  16. nycfc919

    nycfc919 Member+

    Aug 17, 2015
    My point is there’s no one who could play for us outside of him who has jumped to Mexico so it’s embarrassing that people care about us not doing a good enough job with dual nats (Mexican-American or otherwise).
     
  17. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Yeah, but now is the only time it ever counted. Up until the past two cycles, the bulk of our Mexican-American dual nationals were prospects we were curious about, but Mexico would have laughed out of a try out, let alone given a spot too. No time to rest on our laurels when we're producing players PSV, Ajax, and German First Division clubs are fighting over compared to guys that couldn't even build USL careers six years ago. It's not remotely the same thing. Our dual national prospects now are just of vastly superior quality to just three cycles ago let alone the dire days of 2007-2013.
     
  18. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    "You're welcome." -- Carlos Bocanegra

    ;)
     
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  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. The US has never lost a player to Mexico that ended up being good enough for the senior USMNT. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Jonathan Gonzalez will be the first. Maybe. His career seems to have taken a bit of a nosedive since he made his decision to join Mexico. Maybe Efrain Alvarez. I don't know. We spend an enormous amount of emotional energy on players who don't want to play for us.

    I'm all for the USSF doing more to promote these young players. Who wouldn't be for that? On the other hand we understand that USSF is structurally set up a lot differently than the FMF. The USSF is an umbrella group with a huge agenda outside of the USMNT/USYNTs. We must spend 1000 times more money on our women's teams than Mexico does.

    With every waking day I feel more and more strongly that its in MLS that all of this work needs to be done with youth players. 100% of development. Kids aren't being developed at youth national team camps for Pete's sake. And that includes advertising, promotion, etc. Folks make fun of the fact that FC Dallas puts so much effort into hyping their academy and their homegrown players. Of course they do. They're not going to wait around for somebody else to do it. If people are waiting around for the USSF to advertise and promote Nico Carrera, they're going to have to forget about that. Not happening. All I ask is that behind the scenes the leadership is in contact with these players and letting them know that we're committed to them. That's what's important I think. Not that we have a tweet from the USSF talking about Gio Reyna.
     
  20. UniversalAdvice

    Apr 18, 2018
    I've always thought that the goal should be something that you're getting at - not necessarily take kids away from other sports but to help them find their BEST sport. Of course, that means a lot of experimentation in their youth, and that will only help them as an athlete anyway.

    Plenty of good athletes to go around, just have to get better at helping them find their best fit.
     
  21. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member+

    Mar 9, 2012
    If Efrain is ever good enough for the senior USMNT we should just give up.
     
  22. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
     
  23. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We were really bad at developing players for a long time. It stands to reason that Mexico wouldn’t be interested in our players for their youth teams, much less their senior team. But as we’ve gotten better at developing the last few years, Mexico has taken notice and started recruiting our youth. JoGo was just the first one. Mexico has been scouting the DA and has already brought in some players. I’m not a fan of freaking out over every player who may or may not go to a Mexico camp, but with the best Mexican-Americans, a little paranoia is warranted moving forward
     
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  24. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
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  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    So, you are saying that we can't care about the job that is being done on something until it is a failure and it is too late? I remember that argument from September 2017...

    How many guys have to be interviewed and say they've had no contact and then jump to another team before we are allowed to be concerned? Obviously, one is not enough for you. What about Dest? Is two enough? What about Ledezma, Mendez, Servania, Leyva, Llanez? Is seven enough? Would you be ok with half that?

    The job is not hard. Someone should be doing it. Are we so much better than Mexico that we have no interest in the players they are interested in? Going by the results of the last 3 years, I wouldn't think so. And if the job is not necessary, why is Mexico doing it?

    To me, with the results of the past two years, I would think if Mexico is doing something we would try and do that too.
     

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