2019 U-20 World Cup Roster Discussion

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ussoccer97531, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    There is no reason Pomykal couldnt play the role Yeuill had of trying to protect Trapp.


    Mendez is better than Trapp right now.
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I'm fine with Sargent being left off the Gold Cup squad.
    Gives him a chance to get back to Bremen and prepare to fight for playing time when preseason camp begins. In the long run, that's more important for us.

    We didn't need him with the U20s as the guys we did take are getting the job done.
     
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  3. Runhard

    Runhard Member+

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    I think it depends somewhat on what Sargent is thinking. If he was led to believe he would be on the GC roster so he decided to go all in there instead of playing in the U20 roster, then I think it could possibly put him in a bad state of mind towards the US.

    If he was told slim chance to make the GC and he turned down the U20's then yea, let him go back to Germany. Just would not like to see him really pissed about being left off and it set him back.

    Sure, nothing is guaranteed but in the long term plans, I put more trust in his future ability than in Morris or Zardes current or future ability so I would rather have Sargent playing than those two. Frankly, after last nights debacle I would rather have our current U20 squad plus Pulisic, Adams,, McKennie, Miazga and Yedlin play the GC over what Greg is taking.
     
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure..............but important to remember that Sargent already played at the U20WC in 2017. That, from what I understand, was a consideration for him in choosing the USMNT over the U20s this summer. Unlike Weah, who we understand really wanted to be with this U20 team.

    There's also a good chance, i think, that many of the young/youngish players left off of this roster will be part of the League of Nations rosters later this year. Lots of games and opportunities in 2019. There's also the CONCACAF U23 Championships, but I doubt that Sargent participates in that competition. Actually I'm worried about that roster for a lot of reasons........................
     
  5. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #1530 ussoccer97531, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    My problem with all of this is how USSF anointed Sargent and then they are surprised at the reactions when he was then made to earn his spot on the NT.

    Sargent was getting USMNT call ups when he wasn't earning them. Thats a conscious decision USSF made that they gave to him, but not other talented young players who hadn't yet earned a senior NT call up was given.

    The fans took that and ran with it. Now they are mad that Sargent was left off after he was made to earn a spot, and didn't. No one's mad James Sands or Taylor Booth were left off the USMNT roster for the Gold Cup. They are mad Sargent is because thats the player USSF anointed with senior caps before he had earned them. Sargent was never going to earn a spot on the roster, and wasn't going to make the Gold Cup roster, if it was based on who has earned what. He wasn't given a chance to earn a spot by his club team with his lack of minutes.

    After Berhalter made a wise decision (I believe players need to earn a senior NT call up based on their play at the club level), the fans are outraged. Sargent was trending on twitter. USSF only has themselves to blame. They gave Sargent these caps that he hadn't earned, and the fans lapped that up.

    USSF sees the reaction, and their response is to add more fuel to the fire. Stewart said that Sargent is the future of the CF position for the NT. What does that say to Soto, Weah, Ferreira, Pepi, AOC, Wright, etc? Will they have to play second fiddle to Sargent if they are better than him in five years? Why are they again anointing him when they decided that the previous anointment wasn't good enough to get him a spot on the Gold Cup roster?

    USSF has put Sargent in a bad situation. He's a good young player, but they made a conscious decision to market him when he hadn't earned it. Sargent might've had a little fault here, if he decided he was too good for the U-20's (he's not), but USSF should've learned from the many previous players they've anointed only to not have immediate success or any success. Sargent almost certainly will have success eventually, but he has not been helped by this marketing campaign from USSF.
     
  6. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    That it's time to hire a new publicist?
     
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  7. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think that may be too big of an ask. They still have head coaching vacancies to fill.
     
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  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The problem with “getting first team minutes” with a club is that it encourages youth players to settle for lesser leagues as it’s obviously easier to get minutes in MLS than in the B1. Does anyone really think that Morris would get time with Werder first team had he signed there? I certainly do not.

    The problem is that if an American stays in MLS past the age of 20, it’s highly
    unlikely they’ll become an elite player (Big 4 UCL) but it’s in MLS’ interest to hold on as long as possible. Maybe things are changing with on MLS’s side wrt T/SC as evidenced by Adams, Davies and Richards but I want our best prospects heading to elite training programs early rather than joining the loan armies as most 20+ year olds.
     
  9. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This forum sucks right now, but it will get better after the tournament.
     
  10. WheezingUSASupport

    Dortmund
    United States
    Aug 28, 2017
    Completely agree.

    To add, I think Sargent’s slump has actually set him back to his impact a year or two ago when we can all agree he wasn’t ready for the NT beyond “development” reasons.
     
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  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't think Sargent has been in a "slump."
    He's just a 19 year old who only recently broke thru. He's only played 200 first team minutes, or a little over two games. He's only scored two goals, and one of those was from 6 inches away (and was probably going in anyway).

    I think most people just feel like Berhalter picked a USMNT squad to WIN NOW as opposed to win later. And maybe with a new coach (that isn't a big name) you can understand that. He feels like he needs to win this thing in order to give himself a longer tenure as coach.

    I pretty much agree with everything in this column about Josh Sargent.

    Gregg Berhalter has a Josh Sargent problem
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mls/gregg-berhalter-has-a-josh-sargent-problem/ar-AACuOXE

    We're leaving our country's most promising young striker roster off the senior team, someone Berhalter himself said was the future of the program, and we left him off the U-20 team, so he can … rest up for next year in the Bundesliga? Get fired up for the next Olympic qualifying? What is the point of all this?

    What is the point? That's easy for me to answer. The point isn't to win U20 games. The point isn't to win the Gold Cup. A USMNT cycle is geared around qualification for the World Cup. So you invest in some 19 year olds now, because they could be elite 22 year olds when you need them a few years from now. Is it possible that a youngster like this falls by the wayside and in hindsight you wonder if you wasted that roster spot? Yes. But you keep wanting to invest in new blood. At what point in the cycle do you do this? NOW!!! You do it NOW!!!! When the results don't really matter. When you can give the youngsters the opportunity to fail.

    And by the way, I don't think picking Sargent over Altidore is sacrificing the Gold Cup. Not at all. We can do both. Incorporate more youth AND win the Gold Cup.
     
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  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
     
  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I would prefer we invest in young players, even if they are slightly worse than the veterans, due to what you said. We don't need to win the Gold Cup.

    Where I think you run into trouble doing that is investing in young players who have not earned that call up by their play at the club level. That should be the only way a player earns a senior NT call up. That should apply to players of all ages. Aside from Adams, I don't think any U-20 players have yet earned that chance.

    Aside from 2-3 players on that roster (Lewis, Lovitz, Miller), all those players have done enough to have conventionally earned a USMNT call up at some point. Once they do that, their play for the NT, their fit in the tactical system and other factors such as age, potential, depth at certain positions will get certain players more call ups and playing time than others, but I don't think there should be any complaints about leaving Sargent or Amon off the roster.

    If you don't stick to a system like that of players earning NT call ups, you get what the NT had with Klinsmann where you have a NT coach who gets to choose his own pet projects. If it doesn't work, you have similar results to the 2018 cycle team.
     
  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Sargent "earned" his minutes by his play in camp and when on the field. I thought played quite well the other night given the service he got and quality of the players around him. He should have had an assist to Mihailovic (how did that guy earn his call ups???) and dont see Zardes forcing Blake to make that save... well at least on purpose.
     
  15. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    I’m probably the only one who feels like this but I see Paxton as our American Luka Modric. He is willing to play high or low and do whatever it takes to control the central midfield. I think he’s less attacking than Modric but I like the fact he can turn out of pressure so effortlessly. He seems to glide by defenders in tight possession and pick out the right pass to break lines. He’s also tougher than you think in the tackle given his size (just like Modric).
     
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  16. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think its the opposite, he's a lot more attacking than Modric, but doesn't have the defensive shape as Modric. Taylor Booth reminds me more of Modric than Pomykal does.
     
  17. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1542 olephill2, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
    Here's my take on the senior national team prospects of this roster, coming out of the tournament (I'm using the framework @Susaeta provided in this tweet):

    Elite Prospects: Richards, Weah
    High Potential: Dest, Pomykal, Ledezma, Gloster
    Solid Chance: Soto, Mendez, Araujo, Llanez, De la Fuente, Cerrillo
    Long Shots: Durkin, McKenzie, Ochoa, Servania, Scott, Rennicks, Keita, Real

    I can't comment on CJ Dos Santos since I haven't seen him play.

    I love Paxton Pomykal's game, by the way. His skill on the ball and his hustle and work rate are excellent to see. He feels like a throwback US player to me in a way, given his work rate and how much effort he puts in on both sides of the ball. I definitely see him as a #8 more than a #10 coming out of this tournament, and I think he's exactly the type of #8 we need in our pool to transition toward more of a possession-based system in the future. I don't think he has as high a ceiling as Richards or Weah, but I could envision him being a very useful backup #8 to Weston McKennie (depending on how McKennie develops), or even a potential USMNT starter in a 3-man midfield along with Tyler Adams and McKennie (assuming Christian Pulisic moves to the wing).

    Chris Richards had a mixed bag game today, but overall, had an excellent tournament and I'm really excited to see him continue to develop. Tim Weah was up and down a bit this tournament, but it's hard to argue with 2 goals and 2 assists in 5 matches, and he clearly has skill, athleticism, work rate, and the ability to make plays.

    I also thought Sergino Dest was fantastic the past two matches after a shaky start to the tournament. He has elite speed and good attacking ability as a RB, and his defensive game will continue to improve with time, so I like his potential. I also thought Chris Gloster had a solid tournament, and given our dearth of left backs, he looks like one for the future if he can break through with his club. We didn't get to see a ton of Richie Ledezma, but his comfort and skill on the ball impressed me.

    [edit]

    One thing I'll add in terms of roster construction is that, in retrospect, I would have liked to see one more attacking player on the roster. It's tough with a 21-player roster and you never want to risk bringing too few defenders, but given how little Matthew Real and Julian Araujo played (and given that Chris Durkin could have shifted back to CB if needed), it might have been helpful to have another attacker to choose from off the bench. Obviously Josh Sargent is the first name who comes to mind, but a guy I really thought should have been on this roster (and would have been a candidate to start on the wing in my mind) is Jonathan Amon. He would have brought a different element to the attack. Tab originally selected Ayo Akinola, but I rate Amon higher than Akinola.
     
  18. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Given their play in MLS, and how Roldan played against Jamaica, it's not hard to see Pomykal challenging him for the backup #8 spot.

    He might also have struggled with Jamaica's physicality, but it's hard to imagine that he'd have been as bad as Roldan.
     
  19. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Roldan was the best of the outfield starters (a terrible lot, in fairness), up until the bad giveaway, which one would be remiss to attach the eventual outcome of the goal to. If Trapp does his job and the Jamaican player doesn't hit a golazo there's less of a visceral effect to it. For his part, he contributed to an opponent's possible chance. Roldan has underwhelmed in his opportunities with the national team so far, but to single him out for that performance is myopic.

    Also find it odd you use the MLS sample to bolster the argument. Roldan has been a standout there. He's beloved by Seattle fans. Pomykal has been good too, but that doesn't help his case comparatively.

    Gold Cup is put up or shut up time for Roldan. He's shown he's capable of a lot better. If it doesn't start translating more for the national team then it's time for him to move back in line in favor of Pomykal or whoever.
     
  20. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    WTF?
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You're right that Roldan has been good for Seattle; I just think Pomykal has been better and I phrased it poorly.

    Everyone was terrible against Jamaica ... but it was shocking to me to see Roldan turn the ball over on terrible passes over and over and over again.

    If someone told me the team had stayed out until 5 am and everyone was hung over, I would believe it.
     
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  22. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    When the coach wants a team to play a system, they have to play that system or look bad.
     
  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Pomykal doesn't fit Berhalter's system. Forget it.
     
  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    An interesting statistic...…………..
    What does it mean? Does it mean anything? You be the judge.
     
  25. slider4CU

    slider4CU Member

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    Apr 12, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Mendez is an elite talent. Exceptional ability possessed by few in our talent pool. Now the question is on if he can actually reach his ceiling
     

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