2019 U-20 World Cup Roster Discussion

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ussoccer97531, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I'm not sure. They actually develop them!!!!

    How many U17 caps between McKenie, Pomykal, Roberts, Servania, Cerrillo, Ulloa, Cappis, and company!? Kellyn Acosta had a ton of U17 caps, but all as a fullback. Emerson Hyndman only had 3 U17 caps (but that one was predominantly due to availability.) Alejandro Zendejas had more U17 caps than all of those guys combined. Zendejas is probably the forgotten man in the group, for obvious reasons. But he's still at Chivas. Played 10 games this season.

    They're all just included when they become U20s.

    The next in this particular line will be Tanner Tessman. He's had a cup of coffee with USYNTs, but it won't surprise me if he zooms up the radar to USYNT discussion in the next two-three years.
     
  2. zlebmada

    zlebmada Member

    United States
    Jan 16, 2018
    Is there any doubt this will be Ramos's last cycle? He's the final holdover on the men's soccer side from the Sunil era, I assume Berhalter and Stewart want to unify the YNT program under one clear hierarchy, and surely Tab wants to test himself in MLS. Just seems like all signs point to him stepping down after Poland and taking one of the next open jobs in Major League Soccer.
     
  3. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, he's done fine, but probably time for both parties to move on and see if there are better options out there.

    I'd like to see him land in Cincinnati. They're flirting with suspect options like Moyes. They're too Europhile. That usually hasn't gone well for MLS teams and just didn't for themselves with Koch.

    They should make a commitment to Ramos, youth, and have him develop their newly created academies. Acquire a bunch of other depressed youth assets. Play them through growing pains. Some are better than their stalwarts already. Look how Amaya has made them more competitive off the bat.
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Don't you think Berhalter is having an influence ? He seems to have introduced a more holistic approach to youth teams. That's fine by me. I also think Tab's doctrinaire approach might be wrong when he says we are playing the 433 and making that the default formation for youth soccer. Perhaps Berhalter will have some effect on that as we see 3cb formation used more and more at clubs. It might help US youth soccer in the sense that right now I think our defense tends to lose the games for us at youth tourneys. Miazga and CCV plus Delgado took us all the way to pk shootout in 2015. We got beat by Venez in 2017 when defense was musical chairs because Glad was injured. Our 2017 U-17's were a good, creative group but defense couldn't handle the good offenses like England. Again it seemed back line was musical chairs but Sands, Gloster, Lindsay were back there iirc. I think that offense was creative enough to where we could have played 3cb's. For all their strength, England actually played a counter game and it worked because there just wasn't enough defense.
     
  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You should probably just put Sands aside as an exception. There is likely a pile of circumstance behind his exclusion. On the bright side, a team came over from ManCity to troubleshoot NYCFC's slide and out of it came a lot of victories and Sands starting.
     
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  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Ramos said Berhalter has had nearly no influence on this cycle.
     
  7. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we'll see Tab leave after the WC. This is is fourth cycle, which is a long time, and at some point he's going to want to do something else, even if the rising powers at the federation want him to stick around (which is unknown).

    Tab is also the Youth Technical Director, which has always seemed to be a relatively empty title in the best of times. Now, it's clear he doesn't even have the authority to staff the many empty YNT gigs.

    Berhalter and Stewart haven't made any big changes to the YNT structure, nor have they been visibly involved, but given the timing of their hires that doesn't mean all that much yet. It doesn't make sense to rock the boat late in the cycle. Their chance to make an impact is after the U17 and U20 World Cups when everything resets.

    For his part, Ramos seems to have improved as a coach over the years, thinking back to his naive tactical approach to the 2013 U20 WC. It's hard to know how much is him vs. other people, but while he's been in place the YNTs have improved in their coordination and the addition of a team at the U19 level has been a nice touch.
     
  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I do as well. He was reportedly one of the final two candidates for the FCD job, before it was given to Luchi. I think he'll be given an MLS coaching job, and justifiably so. Maybe a club looking to build thru youth as a strategy moving forward. For instance.......................Orlando. They talk the talk, even bringing in Muzzi from FC Dallas. Colorado Rapids have an interim head coach.

    And Ramos has earned that opportunity. I mean, the US is back-to-back CONCACAF champions and back-to-back quarterfinalists at the U20 World Cup. We're the US, not Argentina. How many outright U20 CONCACAF Championships did the US win prior to Ramos? I think the answer is zero.

    [In 03 and 05 there was no Champion crowned. We won our group phase that determined world cup qualification. That was it.]
     
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  9. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    I'd like to see it.

    My feeling is that the sheer amount of talent coming through during Ramos' reign is unprecedented so the results SHOULD have been better under Ramos...despite some decent results, I'm not really sure he's proven that he's better than replacement level.

    Paunovic won the U20 with Serbia and has been okay with a dysfunctional Chicago in MLS...would be curious to see how Tab would do in MLS...but I'm skeptical that he would be some kind of revelation or even that he would be particularly good at developing youth despite a youth coaching background.
     
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  10. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    https://www.philly.com/soccer/usmnt...m-weah-paxton-pomykal-tab-ramos-20190513.html

    "This group sometimes just goes, ‘We got this, coach,’ " Ramos said after announcing the 21-player squad for the tournament. “I really like that. When I see us walking on the field and I see guys like Alex Mendez and Mark McKenzie and Paxton [Pomykal] and those kinds of guys who are just so confident when they walk on the field, it gives you a good feeling as a coach that everything is going to be okay.”
     
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  11. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    On the U20s, I agree. Ramos is playing out his contract and is not in the Chicago loop that is taking over everything. Wicky was hired by Stewart/Berhalter and his U17 is playing more like the Senior team then Ramos's teams. ES/GB also hired Kreis for the U23 and they are also playing like GB's.

    I think Wicky could take over the U20s following the U17 WC.
     
  12. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Wicky gets offered a good MLS gig, I could see him taking it. He's already interviewed with FC Dallas (and possibly another team) before taking the U-17 team.
     
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  13. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Reading between the lines, I think he and his wife are looking for quality of life rather than always being on the road trying to climb the coaching ladder. But, that is me reading between the lines. He certainly wanted an MLS or USL gig. But if they settle in Chicago, and he likes ES and GB, maybe he sticks around for a few cycles.

    He is probably overqualified for his present job, no doubt. So, moving on to a pro job would not surprise me.

    I also think ES and GB value Ramos and they would probably keep him. I think some in management elsewhere are not enamored with his honesty.

    FC Cinncy seem to be putting in place a process that would let them delay a coaching hire for a month. Being from NJ, I'd like to see Ramos take over RBNY 2 (with JW taking over for Armas) and get into that system. I think the way he likes to play is compatible with the way RB likes to play.
     
  14. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    YNT gigs are often quite boring with long stretches of inactivity. That might be fine for a guy like Wicky when he's likely going to be starting a family. But eventually, he's going to want to coach full-time and he wants to be in the United States.

    So yeah, maybe he sticks around for a little bit at US Soccer. But I can't see him not being in MLS at some point sooner than later. But his resume is so good that he can wait until the right fit comes and avoid the Colorado-types.
     
  15. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jamie Hill on the current U-20 team squad being younger is comparison to recent US U-20 squads at the time they went to the tournament.
     
  16. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I'm sure bshredder is going to yell at me but I have this "soap opera" idea of Araujo not being included because he is in the De Kloese camp and he would upset Mendez and Llanez who are in the Kleiban camp.

    During the last U20 and U23 camps, right when all the turmoil over Kleiban/Llanez was going down, Araujo was sent to the U23 camp and wasn't even looked at by Ramos.

    Yes, we need games to start haha
     
  17. zlebmada

    zlebmada Member

    United States
    Jan 16, 2018
    Tinfoil hats on, but I have a slightly modified soap opera theory about Araujo. Ramos snubbed him in the March camp and Berhalter/Stewart/Kreis went over Ramos's head to pull Araujo up to the U23s, which Ramos could have interpreted as a swipe at his selection wisdom. If Ramos interpreted it that way, maybe he wanted to double down with his U20 roster selection by snubbing Araujo again, thinking that if he'd called Araujo up after snubbing him in March, it might look like he was taking cues from Berhalter/Stewart/Kreis. Ramos wants nobody to think he's taking cues from them, so Araujo gets to stay home while the U20s go to Poland. Bear in mind, I'm not saying I think this is the only reason Ramos snubbed Araujo, but I think it may well have been a factor.
     
  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Your theory is more plausible but mine would make a better Lifetime Special. ;)
     
  19. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Neither theory inspires much confidence in the management of the program.
     
  20. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I'm young enough to remember a time when people just thought that what happened was that Ramos picked a player he liked over another player he liked somewhat less.
     
  21. zlebmada

    zlebmada Member

    United States
    Jan 16, 2018
    I think that is probably the main reason for all the choices, for the record. I'm not a crazy person!

    But I do also think there's a fair amount of ill will between Ramos and the rest of the program, which is now pretty much aligned with Stewart. Ramos is the last holdover. If only to limit organizational chaos, it's best for him to move on after the U20 World Cup.
     
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  22. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    #1322 Dave Marino-Nachison, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
    Anybody who spends as much time thinking about YNTs as you do ... wait, cancel that thought. ;)

    Is this a thing or just an educated guess? I haven't seen it reported, though I don't claim to have read everything that's been written. And of course you may have your own sources.

    Logically I can see how it's possible that if you're Stewart, you might want to restock leadership with your own people, but at least with the U20s Ramos seems to have things functioning reasonably well.
     
  23. zlebmada

    zlebmada Member

    United States
    Jan 16, 2018
    Mostly an educated guess. The U20s are functioning well but you don't have to talk to too many people to ascertain that the system isn't unified the way it probably should be. That's not Ramos's fault per se, but given his now mostly meaningless "youth technical director" title and the fact he's the only pre-Stewart holdover, I suspect he stands in the way of having a unified U15 to senior NT setup.
     
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  24. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Fair enough. I guess I was trying to figure out if you were characterizing Ramos as more "a holdover who might logically be replaced" or "a problem that needs to be solved" or something in between.
     
  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think it has been reported that he is on the outs with Chicago. But it doesn't take too much detective work to see that all the other youth coaches were told to move to Chicago or step aside. I think it shows respect for Ramos that he was left alone. I'm sure he would have been ready for a new challenge either way at the end of this cycle. He has put his name in the hat for MLS jobs and the USMNT job in the past 12 months.
     

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