2019 U-20 World Cup Referees [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Full list here: https://internationalreferee.blogspot.com/2019/03/arbitros-mundial-sub20-2019.html

    Notably, Elfath is going with Parker and Atkins. And Alan Kelly is going as a VAR.

    None of the referee names are that big, outside of UEFA. There you have Bastien, Gil Manzano, Kruzliak, Oliver, Massa, Siebert, and Vincic. For UEFA, this really is the first battle for the next generation (some of which who are already quite established in the UCL) to get on the radar. If it's a 32-team tournament, this is going to be a very tough fight for some of them. If it's a 48-team tournament, slightly less so.

    For the rest of the confederations, it's also about getting on the radar but the ultimate chances of World Cup selection (for a 32-team tournament) appear narrow. Only 5 of the 14 non-UEFA referees from 2015 were selected as referees for 2018 (and one of them was Conger, who was always kind of a lock) and al-Mirdasi then got dropped. These off-cycle youth World Cups are about identifying new talent. The real narrowing occurs at the 2021 versions where all the bigger names will be there.

    This does, however, seem to be a big deal on the VAR side of things. Some big World Cup or common UCL names are there.
     
  2. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Awesome for Kyle going. Is this Corey's first WC event, too?
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Different guy, same name.

    And the answer is yes, I believe. I think this is the first FIFA event for all three. They’ve done CONCACAF tournaments.
     
  4. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, I thought for some reason Ismail went as a support/backup referee to one of the events Jair and his crew were at. But I think I was just confusing that with Gold Cup
     
  5. gold4278

    gold4278 Member

    Feb 21, 2007
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is Kelly the only non-current FIFA referee selected?
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes.

    This pool was pulled from the group of officials brought to the seminar last month. CONCACAF has three non-FIFAs as VARs: Kelly, Stott and Jurisevic.

    It's possible/likely that you'll see Stott or Jurisevic at the U17s later this year.
     
    gold4278 repped this.
  7. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Very happy to see Elfath selected. He's one of my favorite referees to watch.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Team Elfath starts with Uruguay v Norway on Friday. Kelly is VAR.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tahiti : Senegal - TAQI (SIN)
    Poland : Colombia - GHORBAL (ALG)
    Mexico : Italy - CLAUS (BRA)
    Japan : Ecuador - VINCIC (SVN)

    Honduras : New Zealand - HERRERA (VEN)
    Uruguay : Norway - ELFATH (USA)
    Qatar : Nigeria - GUERRERO (MEX)
    Ukraine : USA - N'DIAYE (SEN)

    Great opportunity for North America/UEFA followers to get introduced to some new names. This is a very inexperienced (internationally speaking) set of referees other than the UEFA corps. And this is the first big identification step for finding the new referees who will be in Qatar for 2022.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Portugal : Korea Republic - ZITOUNI (TAH)
    France : Saudi Arabia - RAPALLINI (ARG)
    Panama : Mali - MASSA (ITA)
    Argentina : South Africa - KRUZLIAK (SVK)

    So Massa's crew, which has two of the officials for the Europa League Final, will work 25-May. The UEL Final is 29-May, so no time for a second match before then. With a requisite 2-day travel rest on the way... I don't see how they get another group stage match at this tournament (group stage ends on 31-May). So unless they are guaranteed a knockout stage match because of this special arrangement, a lot is riding on tomorrow's match.

    Got to say, if I'm Massa (who is apparently the top candidate to be Italy's next #1), I've got to be more than mildly irritated by this arrangement.
     
  11. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    So should the USA have had a PK? Replay showed Ukraine defender got ball, but the trailing leg certainly seemed to sweep the U.S. player's legs out.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Parker has a correct decision to negate a Norwegian goal in that match. But it seems to show just how extreme FIFA wants the “delay flag for VAR” to go. I am not sure this exact procedure gets followed if this is MLS. At start of video here:



    It’s a weird factor for ARs to introduce into their decision making now. Parker had to be pretty sure he was correct. Probably near certain, I’d say. I get allowing time for VAR to correct if a goal seems imminent and a decision feels really tight. But if he had flagged at the time of player involvement to stop that attack, would FIFA have been upset? This procedure leads to more hurt feelings (a “goal” being ruled out late) or simply confusion (the flag going up after the attack is deemed over) than simply just flagging immediately. But the immediate flag does risk being incorrect. Then again, so do all flags. So is that the path we are heading toward?
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know this isn’t the incident you’re talking about, but feel it is very interesting:

    https://streamable.com/u9dkp

    It’s a swinging arm that connects with an opponent in the head while the ball is in play. I’d love to know what FIFA thinks of the non-intervention here. On the one hand, it’s just not the type of play typically called as a penalty, so non-intervention falls in line with the “what does football expect” mantra. But on the other, it’s a swinging arm to the head in the era where we allegedly care about potential head injuries; it’s a clear foul and yellow card anywhere else on the field or even here, if the ball wasnt definitely going out of play.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One more. This appears to be an absolutely horrendous use of VAR. If it takes this long for both the VAR and CR, then it’s not clearly wrong. Plus it seems the attacker starts dragging his toe before there is any contact. My assessment is much closer to “expert simulation” than “penalty.” But even if you think it’s a foul, it’s not a clear foul. Disaster.

    https://streamable.com/wn1xy
     
  16. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    I definitely agree with the 1st but 2nd? I mean, yes it was reckless but did it really warrant a red card barely 10 mins into the game? Didn't seem to have the malicious intent like the 1st one.
     
  17. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Thanks for sharing. As I was viewing this clip, my opinion was shifting back and forth almost by the angle! I think this proves it’s not a clear and obvious error either way. Not a VAR review I would have expected at a UEFA/FIFA competition given precedent so far.
     
  18. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Malicious intent doesn't come into it.

    The point of contact was top of the Achilles/bottom of calf with the studs. Decent enough intensity, and coming down with the majority of weight.

    This checks the boxes for a red card.
     
    MrPerfectNot repped this.
  19. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    One thing that bothers me about these is that they both should have been given as red without var. The first one the AR has literally nothing else to look at but an utterly cynical whack. On the second the CR has a good view, perhaps not perfect since it was the far leg but if he sees the foul, it must be red.

    So are we getting to where refs are more likely to give a yellow when they are leaning red, knowing it will be reviewed, like the AR’s are letting close offsides decisions play out, knowing that if the ball goes in the net VAR will get it right?
     
  20. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure on the 2nd one he didn't even give a yellow card.
     
  21. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Am I missing something? I don't even see a foul here. And no one from ARG seemed to either as no one was complaining. Even the player "fouled" only half heartedly raised his arm in the universal "I'm trying to milk this for all its worth" signal.
     
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  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Wholly irrelevant.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another SFP card in Ecuador-Italy. This one without VAR help.

    Separately, Joe Machnik’s analytical prowess seems to be getting worse. Particularly as he has no practical knowledge of VAR at a time when VAR is really evolving (just wait until the EPL does VAR next year without any OFRs), it ends up doing a real disservice as he adds to confusion rather than dispel it.
     
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  24. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thankfully Fox is using Christina Unkel this summer for the WWC.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it’s all going to come down to the incentive structures for assessments.

    In MLS, if a non-difficult red card is not punished and needs to be corrected by VAR, then the relevant on-field official loses points. If a difficult red card is initially missed, it’s a different story. And, yes, “clear” red cards can be both difficult and non-difficult for officials to catch, so the concept of a “clear, but difficult” red card is not a mythical creature. It can be clear on video but practically difficult for the referee.

    So, with the two cards in question you quote, the VC on the goal line would be non-difficult in MLS and the AR would be expected to get it without help. The SFP card is probably different; at speed with one look, that may not be an easy red. So there’s probably less incentive there for a referee to go red and risk being corrected (whereas being corrected for an upgrade isn’t as bad).

    But that’s just one competition and governing body. I have yet to find out how UEFA and FIFA have set up their assessment structures under VAR.
     
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