2019 Penn State

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by dmthomas49, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. Lagadema

    Lagadema Member

    Oct 13, 2018
    FSU didn't just click at the right time. They have immense talent and showed it. They are very capable of repeating.
     
  2. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    not sure how you can really say that. They were seventh in the ACC. No one disputes the talent they have, but to say they didnt put it all together at the right time is ..
     
  3. Lagadema

    Lagadema Member

    Oct 13, 2018
    You know what Number007, you're right. I was feeling a little sensitive in my response. This season was my first on these forums and I've tried to, while being an FSU fan, have an objective view of others posts. I read your post as a negative and that's not what you intended it to be.
     
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  4. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Objective = negative here :) I thank you for reconsidering. Respect to you.
     
  5. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You literally wrote:

    How many of the 5 "better" midfielders you listed above would have won "ACC" midfielder of the year?
    SMH.
     
  6. Tom81

    Tom81 Member

    Jan 25, 2008
    To reiterate, I do think PSU is a legitimate contender to make CC again.
    I can't comment on where Sam Coffey fits in the hierarchy of the best midfielders. #1 Different midfield positions require different types of players.
    #2 I haven't seen her on a team with as much talent around her.
    I don't think any of us know how much of an impact she will have, but if I'm Penn State, I'm happy.

    007, I'll comment on FSU putting it all together on the FSU18 thread so as not to hijack PSU's thread.
     
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  7. Least Coast Bias

    Least Coast Bias Red Card

    LAFC
    Uzbekistan
    Dec 11, 2018
    You misunderstood me. I meant 5 midfielders off the top of my head from any team. I could name more but that isn’t the point is it. North Carolina and Virginia has better midfielders and played in the same conference. Don’t get me wrong she is a good player but she got outplayed by several players and she disappeared when it mattered most.
     
  8. Least Coast Bias

    Least Coast Bias Red Card

    LAFC
    Uzbekistan
    Dec 11, 2018
    Yes. They have a great coach and plenty of talent.
     
  9. Least Coast Bias

    Least Coast Bias Red Card

    LAFC
    Uzbekistan
    Dec 11, 2018
    I think that you are wrong but I respect your opinion. Those 4 teams were the best this season and I don’t see anything changing that. I watched every game of all 4 of those teams this season (thanks to the WatchESPN and PAC 12 NOW apps and by seasons end those were clearly the four best teams. Look I will take those 4 teams and you can have the rest of the field and we will see who is right.

    I am going to book my trip to San Jose early and I hope that your team makes it there.
     
  10. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #35 MiLLeNNiuM, Dec 29, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
    You do realize that opinions are subjective regardless whether you're an excellent observer of the sport. Statistics are objective. I'm not trying to be contentious, but you've made yourself out to be a victim of misunderstanding in several threads on this board, and I think some clarification is necessary.
     
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  11. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Objective as in I have no inbuilt bias Clearly any opinion is subjective. Victim, no. Im still waiting for someone to tell me what the basis of their opinion is on any recruiting class or group of players.
     
  12. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    To answer your request, as to the basis of the strength of a recruiting class or group of players, we will have to get to an agreement that there is NO gold standard for making such a judgment. No matter which group of players or team might be put forth as the best in a ranking, there will always be critics such as yourself who will challenge the basis or the results.

    For example, the US women's senior team handily won the World Cup in 2015 and there were critics right up to the end who were saying that Ellis had not chosen the best players, or was playing the wrong combinations from her roster, or had not prepared them well enough to prove that they were the best. Were such critics right or wrong with their criticisms? (Who knows?... but the US won the World Cup.)

    No matter who brings forth a ranking of classes or players it is always open to criticism. If you made such a ranking, I assure you that there would be criticism of your methods and questions about your observational skills. So let's try to see this process in a different light....

    Fact #1: The soccer coaches are the ones who ultimately decide who the better players are. All of us must accept this truism. The point being that if coaches do not put a player on the field or do not move a player up to a more advanced team, then the player will never be noticed for further promotion by other coaches, club managers, or would be team or class ranking folks like you or me. "If they don't play, they can't be ranked." Therefore the coaches will decide who the better players are. We "rankers" will have to take the coaches playing decisions at face value, as there is no other choice.

    Fact #2: No one can see all of the players in person or even review video for a NCAA Division I recruiting class. What this means is that those of us who are interested in ranking ability and skills, must see (or have a plausible way of measuring) players who play at an appropriate level for which we are ranking. This is a way of saying that the chances of getting a reasonable accurate accounting of the game skills of many players must ultimately be based on a blind system. Whose system is better -- yours or mine? Now that will likely be a potentially endless debate. Consequently, there will be honest disagreements about class rankings.

    Fact 3: Some players peak and fade while other players gain in skill and confidence when they get to college. Many fans looking at class ranks will protest half way into the season (or a few years after the fact) that the rankings proved to be wrong. Yup. Things change and a strong class fades away and a weak class ends up having some "diamonds in the rough" who blossom and become great players. (I can think of many examples.) "Past performance does not guarantee future results."

    Fact #4: Coaches in different leagues and situations look for different skill sets than we rankers may be looking at. Does it make any difference that a coach may be pleased to get large fast athletes for his system of play in his league, and we rankers are looking more at tecnical skills, vision, and speed of play?

    Related Fact #4a: Recruiting class rankings may often miss the point of recruiting for any given class. This is to say that your or my system may be looking at markers in a general systematic way, whereas the specific needs of a coach for his team this season may be very different. Coach X may be targeting specific role players to fill holes in the line-up for this upcoming season while our rating systems are looking at different more general values. You and I may rank a class poorly, while the coach is extremely pleased and has a great season.

    I won't go on at the moment, but you surely get my drift. You are demanding to see the basis of any rankings. We can get to that, but when we do, we have to agree that no system is perfect or necessarily better. Looking at fact #3 above is the great leveler and so is the fact that while most any of us can spot the blue chip player in a youth tournament, it is quite another feat to get a handle on who the unsung supporting cast will end up being that cements the team into a consistent winner.

    I'll get back to this at the end of next week...
     
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  13. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Any assessment is a matter of opinion. My point is why is mine dismissed as negative or uninformed? Is the assumption that I have seen less of the players concerned than others? Or my ranking system is not as good? I asked for others basis because i want to understand what they are looking at.

    Does Mark Carr's opinion count when he is not building a team for NCAA play? I dont think there are many blue chip players out there. The tendency is to take good players on dominant clubs who are more exposed than others and cal them blue chippers. Several of these kids have never been tested. Never been on weaker teams. College will be the first time that happens.

    The kids who get overlooked by most methods are the ones playing on weaker teams, facing three defenders every game or being asked to plug the dyke at the back all alone. Unless you actually watch games, you rarely see or hear about these kids.

    Looking forward to hearing from you at the end of this week
     
  14. Enzo the Prince

    Sep 9, 2007
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    #39 Enzo the Prince, Dec 30, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
    It's not; it's just that you're kind of tedious and exhausting. You're still debating the subjective 'value' of a comprehensive win almost 4 months ago by the eventual national champions. And you take a tone of incredulity that anyone could possibly hold an opinion at variance to yours, and dismiss it 'fandom.' You obviously know the women's college game; you just aren't easy to talk to. I hope you appreciate my candor here.
     
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  15. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    i didnt bring up that game. Its strange that people can say oh well we did xyz without player abc, but when i raise it the other way, its a problem
     
  16. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I am not at all incredulous that anyones opinion is different, just those 2. Facts are FSU finished 7th in the ACC. they lost to Miami . Mace and Fleming were 2 of the best players in all of college soccer. To suggest UCLA on the road were not impacted by them not playing OR that FSU did not go on a legendary run is yes incredible
     
  17. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    WOW! Thanks SH. I would never have dared to ask you for this.
    I, for one, implicitly trust your professionalism, after reading your posts for years.
     
  18. L'orange

    L'orange Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    A lot of wheel-spinning on this ranking issue, eh? People like lists....
     
  19. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the off season? Yeah!
     
  20. Enzo the Prince

    Sep 9, 2007
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    You are excellent at creating strawman arguments. Who is saying the absence of Mace and Fleming doesn't impact UCLA? Some of us just don't think it's an excuse to get beat 4-1, especially when FSU was not at full strength either.

    The FSU thing has been talked to death. They're hardly the first team to have a few bad results in an otherwise fantastic season. So they finished 7th...after a 10-game 'season' in a conference where 7 teams made the Sweet 16, and produced both finalists. I also don't see what was so 'legendary' about their run. It's a knockout tournament; by definition, every team who wins it 'goes on a run.' That's literally the only way you can win it.
     
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  21. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #46 MiLLeNNiuM, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  22. dmthomas49

    dmthomas49 Member

    Portland Thorns
    Oct 29, 2008
    Vancouver, WA
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  23. nocarters

    nocarters New Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Oct 22, 2018
    Georgia
    MiLLeNNiuM repped this.
  24. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If anyone has information on how to watch the Spring games, I'd appreciate it.

    March 17 vsGeorgetown at 2 pm
    March 24 vs Bucknell at 6 pm
    March 30 at Princeton at 2 pm
    April 11 vs FSU at 8 pm

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Tom81

    Tom81 Member

    Jan 25, 2008
    FSU does a very poor job of advertising spring games/scrimmages.
     

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