2019 Gold Cup roster/starter predictions?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by RalleeMonkey, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was really expecting Wooten to at least get on the provisional roster... Maybe current form really has nothing to do with selection, but that would contradict previous statements and cast some doubt on how transparent these decisions are.
     
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  2. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Goalkeepers (3)
    GOALKEEPERS: Brad Guzan, Ethan Horvath, Sean Johnson, Tyler Miller, Zack Steffen

    Creditor: Steffen, Horvath, Johnson
    Ives: Steffen, Horvath, Johnson
    dhc1: Steffen, Horvath, [ ]
    largegarlic: Steffen, Horvath, [ ]
    11Bravo: Steffen, Horvath, Johnson
    Duke: Steffen, Horvath,
    Guzan
    Individual11: Steffen, Horvath, Hamid

    Central Defenders (4)
    DEFENDERS: Cameron Carter-Vickers, Omar Gonzalez, Aaron Long, Daniel Lovitz, Matt Miazga, Tim Ream, Miles Robinson, Walker Zimmerman

    Creditor: Brooks, Long, Miazga, Ream
    Ives: Brooks, Long, Miazga, Ream
    dhc1: Brooks, Long, Miazga, [ ]
    largegarlic: Brooks, Long, Miazga, Ream
    11Bravo: Brooks, Long, Miazga, Carter-Vickers
    Duke: Brooks, Long, Miazga, Palmer Brown
    Individual11: Brooks, Long, Miazga, Carter-Vickers


    Central Midfielders (5-6)
    MIDFIELDERS: Michael Bradley, Sebastian Lletget, Weston McKennie, Darlington Nagbe, Christian Pulisic, Cristian Roldan, Wil Trapp

    Creditor: McKennie, Trapp, Adams, Lletget, Roldan, Bradley
    Ives: McKennie, Trapp, Adams, Lletget, Roldan, Bradley
    dhc1: McKennie, Trapp, Adams, Morales, [ ]
    largegarlic: McKennie, Trapp, Adams, Lletget, Pomykal, [ ]
    11Bravo: Trapp, Adams, Lletget, Roldan, Nagbe
    Duke: McKennie, Trapp, Adams, Lletget, Roldan, Mihailovic, Boyd
    Individual11: McKennie, Trapp, Adams, Bradley, Boyd

    Outside Back/Wing (5-6)
    Tyler Adams, Reggie Cannon, Marlon Fossey, Greg Garza, Andrew Gutman, Nick Lima, Antonee Robinson, Duane Holmes, Djordje Mihailovic, Paul Arriola, Corey Baird, Jonathan Amon, Tyler Boyd, Joe Gyau, Jonathan Lewis,

    Creditor: Yedlin, Arriola, Garza, Lima, Lewis
    Ives: Yedlin, Arriola, A. Robinson, Lichaj, Lovitz
    dhc1: Yedlin, Arriola, A. Robinson, Johnson, Chandler, Holmes
    largegarlic: Yedlin, Arriola, M. Robinson, [ ], [ ]
    11Bravo: Yedlin, Arriola, Lima, Johnson, Robinson (not sure which one)
    Duke: Yedlin, Arriola, F. Johnson, A. Robinson
    Individual11: Yedlin, Arriola, Robinson (not sure which one), Lichaj, Holmes


    Attackers (5)
    FORWARDS: Jozy Altidore, Jordan Morris, Christian Ramirez, Josh Sargent, Gyasi Zardes

    Creditor: Pulisic, Altidore, Zardes, Morris, Ramirez
    Ives: Pulisic, Altidore, Zardes, Morris, Novakovich
    dhc1: Pulisic, Altidore, Zardes, Weah/Sargent, Wood
    largegarlic: Pulisic, Altidore, Zardes, Weah, [ ]
    11Bravo: Pulisic, Altidore, Zardes, Novakovich, Weah, Sargent
    Duke: Pulisic, Altidore, Zardes, Morris, Novakovich, Weah
    Individual11: Pulisic, Altidore, Zardes, Novakovich, Mueller, Sapong


    MLS players in squad (underline):
    Creditor: 14
    Ives: 11
    dhc1: 5-8
    largegarlic: 8-13
    11Bravo: 9-10
    Duke: 10

    Individual11: 9-10
     
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  3. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    A specific form of racism only targeting black German-americans playing soccer in Europe is pretty unusual I think anyone would have to admit. Sometimes, especially with small sample sizes, coincidence is just coincidence.

    And I say that fully agreeing that a couple of those players could still be helpful.
     
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  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Nobody,

    I don't think that Berhalter is racist against blacks but rather it appears he has the same bias against dual-Americans raised outside of the US as Arena did. It's an inconvenient fact that they are all under-represented minorities.

    Other factors to consider:

    Age - doesn't apply because Bradley is also 31 and Omar is 30 while Chandler and Morales are 29.
    Familiarity - doesn't apply because Berhalter played with Johnson (and perhaps Williams as well)
    Quality - they're all better players right now that the 3/4 of the named squad
    Injury - absolutely an issue

    I'm annoyed that pointing out the fact that they are all black German-Americans is deemed race-baiting and that the first mentions of racism was by others. FFS.
     
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  5. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    There really are only three priorities for the USMNT and anything short of success in all three is a failure that can and should be placed upon on man's performance and that man is Greg B.

    The priorities are:

    1. Win or place second in the Gold Cup.

    2. Qualify for the World Cup

    3. Get out of our group at the World Cup

    Failure at one or two are disasters that should directly result in a disbanding of the entire USMNT bureaucracy and a complete rebuild like should have been done after the last failure instead of placing a band-aid on the hemorrhaging artery as was done.

    This of course will not happen even if we fail because the execs of the Fed. are cowards. (BTW: They are the problem not the cure)

    Failure at #3 is less of a problem but still concerning.

    Personally I feel that Greg B is not "better" for the national team but he is "different" and maybe that difference is enough to at least get us back to being second best in CONCACAF. I think Greg B's vision and method is too narrow and it will cause him to miss several good/great players because they do not seem to fit in the "system" he is locked into.

    Given what I have seen so far I think that his lack of flexibility may even cost us in the Gold Cup which "should" be an easy tournament for us to get at least second.

    I cannot see how we could fail to get out of our group at the Gold Cup because the rest are such bad teams and we are playing at home BUT there are teams that could beat us after that if we play down to them and Greg B has shown me nothing that makes me believe he is able to get teams to play better or even up to the sum of their parts.

    Of course I am always up to being pleasantly surprised but I think it will take better than an average MLS level coach to produce the kind of surprises we need.
     
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  6. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Because most are assuming that pretty much all of Europe, that hasn't been called, will be excluded, I would consider anyone on that list as a surprise.

    I'll just name a two off the top of my head: FJ, Morales.

    I would say that at this point, I would definitely say it would be fair to criticize if he doesn't try to expand/refine the pool by looking at some of the European contingent. I haven't spent much time thinking about a number but I believe I would know if it is enough to satisfy me (I hope that makes sense).
     
  7. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would be completely out of character for you given your posting history, but that's how I read your statement as well.
     
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  8. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    What do you mean "it would be fair"? Now that he's had three camps, and excluded many players playing at a higher level than what he calls in, is it now fair? Or are you saying we need to wait longer?

    The longer he waits on those guys, the less interest to bring em in as they are already old-ish. If you want to win now, as everyone claims, why aren't they in the squad?
     
  9. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I'm at work...like many of you and just saw that the roster came out. I see that FJ and Morales are both out. I know Berhalter communicated with FJ in the past so don't really know what's going on there. I was hoping to see him. I am definitely disappointed to see Morales missing and there are at least a few from MLS that I don't see going anywhere, so there is that. There are also a few from Europe that many have called for (Holmes...who I don't know, Fossey and a few others) so I'll have to look at the list a bit more later and figure out my first impressions.
     
  10. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2 out of 3 aint bad! I'm going to play devil's advocate and claim the GC means nothing other than testing rosters and players. I could see losing early to piss poor teams as a good thing if it was because Bradley, Lovitz, etc all started and played majority minutes. Maybe, maybe then a wake up call would actually occur.
     
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  11. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Quite frankly, I think we should wait until the actual camp call ups. All we know now is that if a player is not on this list or injured, they’re completely out of Berhalter’s current plans.

    That does make the Morales, chandler and Johnson decisions deeply disappointing.
     
  12. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The problem with not doing well in the Gold Cup is that it will prove that Greg B's choices are flawed. I think the flaw is not really those that are chosen but rather trying to shoehorn the player pool into a preconceived system. I really believe that the best players should be chosen first and then a system devised to allow those player to perform at their best.

    That is they should make the system fit the players not the players fit the system.
     
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  13. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    What I mean by fair is that at this point...this early in his tenure it is difficult to see what his plans are and how he is trying to go about it. The first four results were relatively meaningless and Gold Cup is the first somewhat meaningful set of games for which he should have the team at a certain level on the way to the "finished" product in 2020.

    Bottom line for me is that practice is practice. that's where you test, make mistakes and work on certain things. Practice is run/and or designed to maximize the result within a given time. Each coach has to design his practice with tradeoffs in mind (fitness, shooting, set plays, and on and on and on). Berhalter's restrictions were kind of interesting...he had an extended period of time with MLS guys which should have allowed him to evaluate and teach the players in the camp but an extremely short window in March where he had to cut out a huge amount (it's like the difference between having five 2 hour practices in a week and having two 1/2 hour practices) what do you work on. The problem with the March window is that it is difficult to know what he was cutting out. Was it evaluation? Teaching? something else? a combination? if you try to do too much in too short of a time that often doesn't work. If he was cutting out evaluation maybe it makes a bit more sense to only pick the top Euro players that he KNOWS will be with the team. (Don't ask me about Ream).

    Now for the Gold Cup, he has the benefit of a longer camp but the important thing is that he has a deadline and that is what coaches get graded on....the deadline. Will he meet it by having a successful tournament or not? will he be closer to the next deadline (qualifying?)

    I'd say now that the roster is out that gives a good opportunity for people to complain about their favorites being left out and I don't have a problem with that in the least. The next step will be to see how they actually play in the Gold Cup. What has he decided to do with the rb position? is he still planning to go ahead as planned? I don't know but we will see pretty soon.
     
  14. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    It is NOT a fact that they are currently playing at a high level. It is your opinion. What does their skin color have to do with this statement IF not to qualify that it is solely that yes, fact by which you judge their exclusion? You impute an agenda of discriminatory racial motivation on Berhalter with little or no factual evidence other than your aggrieved perception.
     
  15. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Mostly agree. He is on record as having spoken to FJ and having stated he is in his plans. I am not so concerned about Chandler...difference of opinion...plus he has been injured (if I'm not mistaken) virtually the whole season. Morales...I can't say that I have watched him at all recently but he has been playing at the B1 level and he hasn't been injured that I know of....can't see any reason he shouldn't be on the list. I would like to see him. Not convinced he would make a huge difference but he should be in there.
     
  16. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Sometimes you learn much more from your failures than your successes.

    The one caveat I have for that is that Berhalter has placed importance on the tournament which means we should be able to use it as a benchmark to measure the progress he and the team must make on the way toward the next important/semi-important game/tournament on the way to 2020. For that reason I do think we should be able to expect a reasonable amount of quality and improvement from the performance of the team (I know that is subjective). Anything less deserves criticism.
     
  17. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    there is a difference between taking pride in your work and arrogance.
     
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  18. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    Next thing you'll tell us is that the explicit use of the adjective "black" was incidental and irrelevant rather than intentional and pointed straight at Berhalter. Sorry but I don't feel your annoyance.
     
  19. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    We missed the World Cup with a decent # of these Lions, who are all worse now...what makes you think a lil Gold Cup failure would mean anything?
     
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  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Is the B1 not a high level? Did they not play for their teams this year? Have they not had a history or playing at this level for several years?

    You clearly don’t work with diversity and inclusion at an organization or professional level: the first thing to look at is if there’s a systematic pattern where qualified URM candidates are disproportionately excluded from opportunities. That’s clearly the case here. Given the small sample size, it’s important not to jump to conclusions on what’s going on but the problem isn’t pointing out that there’s a pattern.
     
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  21. FormerNo10

    FormerNo10 Member

    Juventus
    United States
    Dec 13, 2018
    ..or more proof that this is STILL the MB Show until further notice
     
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  22. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It could be a perception to come out of that outcome for sure. I'm more in your idea camp for sure though. His 'system' is a joke. It's not some sure thing on the international playing field. It's just what he's comfortable with and what he knows. I have been in the 'he's not the coach we need camp' from day 1 but hope I'm wrong. He's going to stick to his guns until embarrassing failure slaps him in the face if ever. Yes, we should go for the 23 best players regardless of age, PT in league play or what league they play in. But that's far too hard, apparently for these overpaid 'part time' coaches. And I fear Berhalter knows no other system that he's comfy with and his game adjustments will be limited to substitutions.
     
  23. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Just a few changes from my prediction from last week:

    Steffen, Horvath, Johnson
    Miazga, Long, Ream, Zimmerman
    Lima, Lovitz, Cannon
    Adams, McKennie, Bradley, Trapp, Roldan
    Pulisic, Arriola, Lletget, Morris, Boyd
    Altidore, Zardes, Sargent

    Zimmerman, Cannon, and Boyd replace Brooks, Johnson, and Baird.

    Boyd jumps immediately into the 23. THE SYSTEM needs wingers and he's caught fire at the right time. Baird loses out because Morris is more positionally flexible.
     
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  24. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    I came up with almost the exact 23 - predicting what GGG will do anyway.

    The only difference I had was A.Robinson over Cannon, as we don't need 3 RBs since Adams is apparently one.

    I'm pretty uninspired by this. But, while my 40 man would look quite different as would my 23, I have to be honest and say it's quibbles. None of the guys I'd add vs. the guys I'd drop honestly move the needle a whole hell of a lot. God, I hope the U-20's look good this weekend.
     
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  25. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Actually, it seems more like a bias against those who do not speak English as their first language. Remember, good English language skills was one of the primary reasons Coach Gregg was hired over guys like Tata Martino, etc. So, dual nationals from England and New Zealand are a step above dual nationals from Germany, France, etc.
     

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