PBP: 2019 FIFA U-20 World Cup Group Stage: USA vs Ukraine 5/24

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Sebsasour, May 19, 2019.

  1. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Let's turn the page ...
     
  2. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Why would he need time to adapt if it is a "lateral move"?

    I am very capable of judging players fairly. I have watched more than enough MLS is the last 15+ years and now to understand where the league is at in terms of quality. It is a huge mishmash.
     
  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Yet, he would struggle to get on the field for our likely next opponent.
     
  4. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Portugal? Head-to-head at the World Cup they sure as hell are not better than us in recent memory... For a team we don't regularly play, nothing else really counts.
     
  5. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    so? I can argue he'd play on that team but still so what. Him not being able to start on that team doesn't mean he isn't allowed to play for the us. If you use that metric...you'll have a lot of trouble putting together any lineup.
     
  6. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    One of these teams is not like the others
    One of these teams just doesn't belong
    Can you guess which team is not like the others
    Before I finish my song?

    One of these teams is not a world champion
    One of these teams is a one-man team
    Can you guess which team is not like the others
    Before @Lloyd Heilbrunn lets off more steam?
     
    freisland and Lloyd Heilbrunn repped this.
  7. mattjo

    mattjo Member+

    Feb 3, 2001
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because he has had two serious knee injuries in the past year and has barely played since 2017.
     
  8. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    We'll see. That wasnt what the quote suggested...

    "It is a big, big change for him so we had to get him used to the dressing room, get him used to Rangers and the pressure of Rangers.

    "He has settled down really well, has performed really well in the reserve team and the idea was always to get him in before the end of the season and then get a strong pre-season into him to get him ready for next year."
     
  9. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shit, I still have steam to let off from 2017...
     
  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The point they were talking in about is they aren't very good defensively they're more of a score more than the other team bunch. They don't know how to play that way so when tab sets them up to play that way they lose. The full team is in transition so I don't have a real position on them yet. In a couple years when some of these and the U23's matriculate up hopefully their more balanced. If they're like this bunch then isn't that sort of how Belgium played the last WC? Just go out and score a lot because you know you'll give up some? Better than trying to be something you're not (and more fun to watch).
     
  11. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It is pretty clear. He isnt above this tournament. It is stupid. If you had the capacity to look at it from a global perspective, it would be obvious.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    This is factually incorrect. Have you watched any FC Dallas games this year? I've watched all of them. He played as a forward/attacking mid in the first couple but Luchi has had him drop back the rest of the year. I don't think he's played any winger this year at all.

    If you had watched those games, you wouldn't be asking how a player could contribute to winning without scoring goals or assists.

    I also pretty strongly disagree with the idea that a quality 8 is somehow inherently worse than a 10.
     
  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    This is the belligerence you will see when facts are presented to put some cold water on excessive hype. Yes, I have seen him play this season and no, your memory is wrong.

    I'm a fan of Pomykal, as well, but I am not going to call average/mediocre production good production. I think what might be at play here is that I have seen Pomykal play many times, I knew his level of play and know what I am watching.

    Pomykal hasn't received the discussion his talent level would've indicated he deserved until recently. It was a big oversight on the part of many. The hype he's now getting has coincided with him receiving consistent playing time for the first time in his professional career, but it has also coincided with him not playing well for the level he's capable of playing.
     
  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    My memory isn't wrong. You were working off transfermarkt -- the proof is literally in this thread - it was your basis for your argument. Transfermarkt, as it often is, is wrong. I was one of many people to point out your inaccuracy, which you amusingly hold to.

    Additionally, I have yet to see excessive hype on any of these threads about Pomykal. I've seen excitement, but most of it is "he should head to Europe soon" or "he will challenge Roldan for the backup role in the USMNT. That's not excessive in any way.
     
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  15. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Who are the many people to point out my inaccuracy and where is this proof? Can you explain the FC Dallas alignment in all these games you claim Pomykal played as a #8? If you know more than transfermarkt and myself, you should have no problem explaining your superior knowledge.

    Besides, I don't care about the consensus about Pomykal. I think I was the only person that was giving Pomykal credit a year or two ago when he wasn't getting MLS minutes. I had seen him play at lower levels, and he was very good. I didn't once try to evoke superior knowledge (like you are trying to do here). I see a difference in his play between how he played in prior years and what he's showing now. I don't care if you agree with me. I am giving my opinion on what I've seen of his play this year. You are the only who took exception to what I said.
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Pegasus, Butters, and Jazzy Altidore all did it on page 23. That's four of us.

    Depending on if they were home or away, Dallas would play a little differently. But past the first few games, they've played pretty defensively, with a striker like Ferreira up top, Barrios below him and ranging.

    If Aranguiz is playing, he's playing the attacking mid position. If Dallas is playing super defensive, Barrios is coming back more playing more of that role.

    Either way, Pomykal is playing box to box, attacking and defending and connecting in the middle.

    I'm not talking about an opinion about Pomykal's game. I'm pointing out a factual inaccuracy. This isn't a matter of opinion. I'm not saying he's a better 10 or a better 8 -- I'm saying he's been playing a box to box role. You keep claiming he hasn't even though he has.

    This is completely irrelevant to whether you are factually correct as to where he's played this year with FC Dallas. If anything, it is making you think you know something that isn't it.

    You claimed, more than once, a factual inaccuracy. Yes, I have superior knowledge. I know what is factually true here.

    This is the equivalent of you going LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU. How old are you?

    Again, factually untrue. At least three other posters pointed out the inaccuracy.
     
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  17. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you mean the whole season, he also scored against Caen in Ligue 1, the first game of the season,
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #618 Clint Eastwood, Jun 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
    I don't really understand what this whole discussion is about. Paxton Pomykal is a completely different player this season. Here was his passing chart in the game he started against Minnesota last season. This was his 3rd start, and he played as a #10 lining up in the Mauro Diaz slot.
    https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/soccer/soccer/2018/07/01/breakdown-fc-dallas-minnesota-united-fc

    [​IMG]


    Here's his passing chart from the game he started this season against the Galaxy.
    https://www.bigdsoccer.com/2019/3/11/18258832/chalkboard-fc-dallas-la-galaxy-paxton-pomykal
    [​IMG]

    Surely I'm not the only one that can see the difference. I believe that we all have eyeballs. He had very little impact on the Minnesota game (or the other games he started last season). It wasn't that he was bad. He was "OK." FCD won that game against Minnesota. But he didn't really "do" anything. He didn't win a starting role with the team based on that performance.

    But when you look at the LAG performance you see a player that was intimiately involved in everything. That chart doesn't show the great work he was doing off-the-ball either. Buzz describes that in his write up. The kid has great vision and field awareness.

    Is he a #10? A #8? A free 8? An inverted winger? Who the hell cares. That's just semantics. All I know is that in 2018 he wasn't impacting first team games. In 2019 he's not just impacting first team games, he's running the damn show. He's frickin' everywhere. One can argue he's the most important player on the team.
     
  19. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    'its pretty clear'...well now that you admit you were wrong its settled. If you didn't keep changing the subject you wouldn't find urself in these lose lose situations.

    you just need to have a better galactic perspective and you don't seem to have that.

    p.s. other countries don't matter making the best team for the us has noting to do how other teams with much more talent do it.
     
  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Thank you, Clint Eastwood. Your post made my day.
     
    50/50 Ball repped this.
  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    It doesn't seem as if you know what inaccuracy is.

    You seem to struggle a lot with what an opinion is and a difference in opinion. Your opinion is not fact. You are the only one acting belligerent about a difference in opinion.

    As expected, you claim something that you can't back up.

    If you know better than myself and a very accurate website, you should be able to produce evidence.

    Please don't try to fool everyone about what you are doing.

    You acted belligerent about a difference in opinion. That is there for everyone to see. You tried claiming you have superior knowledge and questioned my knowledge. That was a matter of opinion.

    You are now trying to claim its a factual matter that Pomykal has only played as a #8, but you couldn't prove that. That is more of a factual or not factual matter.

    It's relevant to the attitude you've used towards me. You tried to evoke superior knowledge from the outset. Thats not going to work here. You don't have any superior knowledge.

    The lack of self awareness on your part is frightening. You picked a fight with me over my opinion because you've pumped this guy up and you are trying to weed out anything that might go against what you've said. You should re-read what happened because clearly you are unaware.

    Prior to your post towards me, I'm not sure I had ever quoted or referenced one of your posts. You objected to what I said. You are very quick to claim things are facts that aren't, but this is a factual matter where you are wrong. This is pure reading comprehension. Take a look at post 535. You objected to what I said, not the other way around.
     
  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I pointed out clearly where I and several others had disagreed. You continue to use transfermarkt as a reliable source -- transfermarkt ain't watching the games. It's clear you aren't, either.

    Adding to the evidence, Clint Eastwood posted a very clear heat map above to display out point. This really isn't this hard.

    Look, I think some of what you say should spark interesting discussion.

    Is it actually a negative that Pomykal has moved back? Is this failing at being a creator? Or is there real value there?

    What is Pomykal's ceiling? He's a plus MLS playing right now but does he translate to the better leagues in Europe?

    These are really interesting discussions we could have.

    But you remain insistent that Pomykal has been playing the 10 and winger and therefore his low goals and assist numbers are a sign that he's not been very good at all.

    Five posters have disagreed with you. Heat maps have been posted. There's a number of articles out there about how he's being used.

    Your insistence on this point -- which to anyone who has watched FC Dallas this year knows is wrong -- makes me and I assume, everyone, question the validity of your opinions.

    Your attempts to go amateur psychologist is even worse. The second half of your last post is a pretty pathetic attempt at a response. I'm going to just ignore it.

    He's not playing a purely attacking role like winger or 10. Dallas calls it a Free 8. Literally his own coach calls it an 8. Heat maps back up the change. Many people who watch the games agree.

    If you can't even admit that he is definitely playing deeper offensively and defensively, and that that can play a role in basic counting stats like goals and assists, there's not a lot of point in discussing with you.
     
  23. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I mean this year, otherwise I'd have written "this season."
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    There is no right or wrong. It is just an opinion. I believe my opinion is the best way to help our players to develop so that our national team is better 5 to 10 years down the road. I think your opinion is simplistic and faulty.

    You seem to think it is best for our players to play at the "highest" level possible as soon as possible, where "highest" is defined as the oldest team of our country. I personally think our u20s play a more technical style and Adams would be better served missing a senior tournament vs CONCACAF teams. I think playing against the Ukraine, Nigeria, Qatar, Panama, Colombia and hopefully make the semis to get 2 more games. The semifinal opponent would likely be Italy, Argentina, or Mali. I believe being captain of this team would be more pressure and expose him to many different styles of play.

    Lets take it another step. Adams would raise the level of play of the rest of the team. Instead of Mendez and Pomykal having to deal with Durkin/Servania, they would be raising their game to the higher standard Adams created. It would be that much more clear how poor Keita is on the ball and Adams support of Dest might help him improve on the defensive side. Instead of likely going home after 4 games, the whole side would get at least 5 and good chance at 7 with a couple against very talented teams. The team would get the experience going deep in tournaments and have playing the top players they may focus down the road.

    Right. Let's ignore what top countries do and think we can do things better. Poor Diaby will have an under 20 WC but Adams will have a GC against Guyana and the usual CONCACAF suspects. Thinking we are smarter than everyone else is why our upward trajectory stalled or maybe even falling further behind.
     
    DHC1 repped this.
  25. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    after all this why you are saying things like I lack a worldly perspective its now...'there is no right and wrong' lol.

    I think you are missing the difference between france/usa and diaby/adams

    how far would you go? all age appropriate teams?

    once you answer this I'll give you the biggest problem with your terrible idea.
     

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