PBP: 2019 CONCACAF U-17 Championship: USA vs Guatemala 5/6 6 PM (ET)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Sebsasour, May 5, 2019.

  1. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Possession's overrated. We squeaked by Canada, despite all of the possession in the world.

    Otherwise, we've pounded Guatemala and Barbados. A Guatemala team that, by the way, played Canada far tougher than they did us, and a Barbados team that we beat by the largest margin in the Group.

    Took care of business, 3-0, we'll probably make it to the Finals.
     
  2. Gacm32

    Gacm32 Member+

    Chelsea FC
    Switzerland
    Nov 28, 2010
    Geneva
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Google said 61/39. Judging by the pattern of play in the second half, 52-48 seems ridiculous.
     
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  3. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two footed, into the ankles of a defenseless player. That is dangerous play, and it was absolutely an unnecessary play. If any sort of hands to the face is red, this is a red card 100 percent.
     
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  4. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t trust Concacaf’s possession numbers any more than I trust their “officiating.” There’s no way possession in that game for us was anything less than close to 60%. I can see it being 50-50 in the first half but Guatemala barely had the ball at all in the second half.
     
  5. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are certain playmakers on this team that I think have to play every meaningful game from here on. Leyva has played very well and while I’m glad they gave him the day off, he needs to play against the best opposition going forward. AOC and Pepi both fit that bill, too, despite Pepi being clearly frustrated at the incredible lack of service. One of the reasons for that is Yow. I realize it’s a bad time to nitpick since he had 2 goals, but he will ignore an overlapping run 99% of the time. He also will ignore any run Pepi makes looking for a through ball, too. And Reyna wants to dribble around until he gets to the end line and then send a cross 20 feet over everyone’s head. AOC also looked like he would rather take the entire defense on instead of try a cross to the 6’1” target man, but at least he has an excuse since he’s not a wing and only played a short time there. What this team really needs is Cameron Dunbar. He’d be perfect.

    KHF needs to be on the field, Armour needs to not be. He’s been clearly worse than Tolkin, IMO. Actually, Armour is worse than whoever the Galaxy played at left back while KHF was playing Cb with the u17s. I don’t want to pick on him too much cuz he’s quick, athletic, and looks like the type of player who could improve a lot, but he has no business being on this roster and I think we all see it.

    I’ve been pretty disappointed with the passing from Alejandre and Gray out of the back, but I don’t really know how to remedy that. Tbh, Kobe lofting those long balls to the keeper time after time (except that 6th goal vs Barbados) has been pretty disappointing, too, but at least he’s actually been trying to get the ball to the 9.
     
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  6. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those possession stats don’t mean much. We absolutely dominated the ball and the game, as Guatemala barely got out of its own half.
     
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  7. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was a red in an adult game. Refs give kids more leeway sometimes for boneheadedness.
     
  8. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I watched the same game, and thought the first half was even. We had two good chances to score, and scored on one of them. Guatemala had one good chance to score, and our keeper made a save. Guatemala also could've been given a penalty after the ball hit Armour's arm. The second half Guatemala provided little threat. We were better in that half.

    Regardless of which possession figures are accurate, I think its an underwhelming performance. I'm not going to say a 3-0 victory is a bad result, but this team does not convince with their performances. Look no further than the 3-2 victory against a Canadian program that fails to qualify for nearly every big youth tournament. We were shambolic in that first half.

    If you compare these results and performances to the results and performances in U-20 WCQ with a team that at best a "B" team, we aren't doing as well in this qualification, and its hard to think this isn't close to the coach's "A" roster.

    I don't know why there's such an adverse reaction to criticism. What is the standard here? Is it only to win against CONCACAF minnows? If thats the case, I think there's been a moving of the goalposts with what we should be expecting of our teams in these tournaments. We should be expecting them to dominate these bad CONCACAF teams and at minimum lose to Mexico (maybe Costa Rica) in the final. More likely, they should be winning these tournaments because we have the best program in CONCACAF.
     
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  9. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that it hasn’t been impressive so far, but Guatemala would’ve gotten at least 2 red cards if this was anything but CONCACAF. At least one, as many as three, for persistent infringement, and a red on that awful tackle on Cuevas. Any time we get in the attacking area, someone is taking a cheap shot or getting to the ball late. This isn’t new or newsworthy, this is how CONCACAF wants it. They want the minnows to feel like they have a chance.

    I’m not trying to make excuses cuz I’ve been just as disappointed as everyone else, but we have scored 12 goals in 3 games, so it’s jot like we’ve been completely hapless. There isn’t the beautiful cohesion the last cycle had, but the coaching situation has to have something to do with that.

    And as far as the coaches “A” roster goes, I don’t think he has any clue what his “A” roster is. It certainly feels to me like these three games have been a tryout for just about everyone. Except Las. I think he’s pretty much shown he belongs in goal.
     
  10. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I like Yow more after this game. Looks like a high floor - low ceiling Arriola like player.
    AOC is the most talented player on the team. Pepi reminds me Wood, and I don't like Bobby. Reyna is anything but #10, all his best plays came from LW position. Las is very good. Odunze would be a starter on any other U-17 team of ours. I also think that we'll get to semis, and then Canadian first team kicks us out.
     
  11. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    AOC is a striker not a winger. He used to see a keeper in front of him after beating two defenders, not another two defenders one of which would take him down. 6'1" target forward plays well for FCD but here he can't get open and had exactly zero chances throw the tournament, so, so far he looks like a hard worker with a strong shot as he didn't create much easier. He is young so his game might catch up to his athleticism though. Dunbar might be good as the team lacks wingers.
     
  12. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I said that about AOC. And FWIW, I have rated him highly for quite a while now. But I don’t agree with you on Pepi. He has made some good runs and the wings seem to feel no pressure to get him the ball. You say he had 0 chances, but he ripped a shot that was saved early in the second half. All of the problems Pepi had today, AOC had 2 days ago. The only difference was that one long ball from KHF that was actually on target and caught the defender napping.

    The problem here isn’t with the strikers, it’s the system, team chemistry, a mix and match of 10s, bad crosses, and teams sitting back and keeping as many players in the box defensively as possible.
     
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  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well Pepi got a hard hand to the face in the box and nothing was called.

    OK, don't read to much into this because vision and other stuff aren't there (yet, may never be) but watching Reyna move, his size his rather upright movement gliding by effortlessly he reminded a bit of Zidane. Again, just a quick kind of familiarity not saying he's the second coming.
     
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  14. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    He still scored back then and today as well. The pass was great, but AOC gets open much better than Pepi.
     
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  15. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I probably one of the most cynical assholes around here. I have no problem with criticism. But I think you are being mindless here. A 3-0 win at home against Guatemala is good at any level in our program. And performance aligned with the result: we did dominate the bad CONCACAF team.

    Regarding the game against Canada (who is slowly improving), we came back and beat them with three goals. Remember this is a new team with a new coach. Also remember this is a youth tournament. Youth players are highly unpredictable and prone to streaks, good and bad, based on emotions. Essentially you are overreading what’s going on in the tournament as a whole based on a slow start that was quickly overcomes.
     
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  16. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, did you read my post? I said he scored, but the defender was lost and it was already 5-0. It was basically 1v1 with the keeper and all he had to do was have a good first touch.

    AOC wasn’t consistently open in the box 2 days ago and today’s goal came as a wing because every cross goes to the back post at best. And actually, that cross came from Leyva, who probably won’t cross a pass again the entire tournament, but it was easily the best one. Why? Because Reyna, Yow, and Busio all either suck at crossing or just don’t even try.

    And again, it went to the wing. Do you see the difference in the picture? There are literally 6 defenders tracking the guy in the box while AOC is 1 on 1 with the defender on the back post. This is how it has been all 3 games, and even still Pepi could have a goal with a decent cross because he’s a big boy and knows how to finish.

    It was only 5 months ago that I was arguing with people who were complaining because AOC wasn’t scoring against Turkey, Brazil, and Portugal, even tho I was firing up the Pepi hype train. Look at the big picture, don’t just judge a player by his stats (or lack thereof). The big picture in this case is a distinct lack of chances that come from the run of play, especially in the middle of the field.
     

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  17. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    I actually noted that as well several months back. It mainly comes down to his dribbling style and the way he moves on the ball.
     
  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The format of the tournament, the obvious talent advantage, and the fact the coach was hired yesterday almost, has me optimistic these last three games have been more of a evaluation exercise than anything else. I think Wicky was looking for who and what worked and we should see his best guess against Guadelupe. That game should be a tune up for Panama and qualification.

    GB is on site and was involved in the Wicky hire. It could be that we are seeing some elements of GB's way of playing. Someone on Twitter noticed the RB tucking in last night and a box in midfield. These players have probably been playing a straight up 4-3-3 like Ramos runs and Hackworth before him (when he wasn't panicking) and are now trying to learn these new elements. We will see if that continues when the results matter.

    The team should get better as a team as the tournament goes along. One thing about the minnows in our region, those players have probably played together since they were 6.

    But the age group has not shown much so far, no doubt. I think there are just a bunch of similar players that want to play in the same parts of the field and make the same runs to the same spots. Hopefully, they can learn to play together more and anticipate each other more.
     
  19. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    The constant this team sucks posts sometimes in direct succession seems a bit much and over the top. I know we got it, you don't think much of this team. I even remember from a few posts back. You don't need to include it in every post.
     
  20. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Actually watching the game it was no way 52-48. Then to have someone use that to fit a narrative when its obviously wrong. Here's some more statistics from ussoccer.com. No way 52/48 when outshooting them 23/7 and SOG 10/1.
    Statistical Summary: USA / GUA
    Shots: 23 / 7
    Shots on Goal: 10 / 1
    Saves: 1 / 7
    Corner Kicks: 9 / 2
     
  21. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Aren't numbers just propaganda for someone's point of view?
     
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  22. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like during the last u23 camp, I think the manager (that time Kreis, this one Wicky) just needs to just take what experiments panned out from the initial exercise(s) and coalesce them. When that was done the performance was night and day. Went from getting out-played by Egypt to out-playing the more ballyhooed Dutch in Europe.

    At age groups this low you're making a lot of educated guesses at the beginning. Few of the kids are first teamers to any degree and most aren't pros, for cues. He's somewhat learning as he goes. Not to mention he's new to the job, as was Kreis.

    I see plenty of talent. It's more in pockets. And no shortage of players outside this camp will emerge from this age group.

    Are they proportionately as talented as the u-20's? I don't know. But they probably don't have to be to win this tournament. That team blasted Mexico the last two cycles.

    Now the real evaluation begins.
     
  23. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's certainly often used for that purpose. The merit of them depends on a combo of the methodology, accuracy of collection, pertinence of the stat, and the intellectual honesty of the particular person delivering them. If those factors combine it's the best measure we have for perspective on an issue. If not it can be exploited to lead many astray.
     
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  24. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There may be something to this because Pepi usually doesn't stay just up top but mostly has in games in this tournament. Has he been told to do that? My first viewings of him were about 6 months ago in some friendly tournament? and he was impressive along the sideline and much more involved. Either he's changed on his own or told to stay up top to occupy the center backs.
     
  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I was going to make the comparison to that U23 camp too. I think we have seen some thought out combinations out there and he has also given everyone a rest. These dumb qualifying tournaments always come down to one game, so anything can happen. But I'm excited to see what Wicky has come up with.

    16-17 is a strange age and any of these kids can look good one minute and not the next.
     
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