2019 CONCACAF Champions League Thread

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Yoshou, Jul 25, 2018.

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  1. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    CONACAF used to pay travel allowance. I'm sure that's still in place.

    But yes, overall CONCACAF has the least impressive prize money in all confederation club tournaments, except the (semi-professional) OFC Champions League.
     
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  2. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    1 million just to show up to the CWC? That is not that bad if it is only just to participate. I imagine the more you win, the bigger the prize?
     
  3. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    #153 newtex, Oct 1, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
    MLS 2017-18 aggregate points table:

    1. ATL 65 g. 118 pts 34 wins +57 g.d. (max 127)
    -------------------------------------------------
    2. NYR 65 g. 112 pts 33 wins +31 g.d. (max 121)
    3. NYC 66 g. 110 pts 31 wins +27 g.d. (max 116)

    Atlanta is 4 points from clinching the CCL berth.

    NY Red Bulls need at least 2 wins to have a chance to get the #1 spot. They are also in position to possibly get a berth if Atlanta, Kansas City, or a Canadian team wins MLS Cup. NYRB could also directly qualify by winning MLS Cup.

    NYCFC cannot catch Atlanta but is still alive to finish in 2nd which could get them in if Atlanta, Kansas City ,or a Canadian team wins MLS Cup. NYCFC could also directly qualify by winning MLS Cup.

    NOTE: Houston has not been officially eliminated from the playoffs yet either. But I'm not adding them to the list.
     
  4. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    To hell with the top of the table. What we really want to know:

    Is Colorado still trailing LAFC?
     
  5. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    They are not.

    16. DCU 63 g. 70 pts 19 wins -24 g.d.
    17. SJE 65 g. 66 pts 17 wins -39 g.d.
    18. ORL 63 g. 64 pts 17 wins -45 g.d.
    19. COR 63 g. 57 pts 15 wins -46 g.d.
    ------------------------------------------
    20. LAX 30 g. 50 pts 14 wins 12 g.d.

    It is a two-team race for the bottom spot. I included San Jose and DC because the Quakes made the playoffs last year and DC might get in this year.

    BTW, the bottom Canadian team would be Montreal with 79 points in between #13 New England and #14 LA Galaxy.
     
  6. Justin O

    Justin O Member+

    Seattle Sounders
    United States
    Nov 30, 1998
    on the run from the covid
    Club:
    Seattle
    Colorado is 7 points ahead of LAFC.
     
  7. AeroNaught

    AeroNaught Member+

    Atlanta United
    Feb 14, 2007
    Birmingham, AL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not totally off topic, but didn't LAFC kind of get shafted with this 'best point total over two seasons' qualification process? Wouldn't the average points over two seasons been more fair (and taking LAFC's point total for this year as their average)?
     
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  8. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yes and yes.
     
  9. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    #159 newtex, Oct 1, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
    More fair? Maybe. That mostly depends on your definition of fair. "Fair" might be the team that has proven their merit over a bigger sample of games.

    Besides, LAFC may not have more points in 2018 than Atlanta or NYCFC had in either 2017 or 2018. LAFC has 50 points in 30 games this year. Last year Atlanta and NYCFC had 52 points in 30 games and wound up with 57 and 55. This year those two teams have 63 and 53 already although they have played more games than LAFC.

    I think LAFC would have a better case for unfairness if they had 1 year better than any other team had in one year.
     
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  10. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    PPG for games played so far in 2017 and 2018:

    ATL - 1.81
    NYR - 1.72
    NYC - 1.67
    LAX - 1.67

    We'll see if LAX catches the top two.
     
  11. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Best single season points over the last two years:

    1. ATL 63 points (2018, 3 more games)
    ------------------------------------------------
    2. NYR 62 points (2018, 3 more games)
    3. NYC 57 points (2017)
    4. CHI 55 points (2017)
    5. ATL 55 points (2017)
    6. FCD 54 points (2018, 4 more games)
    7. CLB 54 points (2017)
    8. NYC 53 points (2018, 2 more games)
    9. POR 53 points (2017)
    10. SEA 53 points (2017)
    11. SKC 51 points (2018, 5 more games)
    12. LAX 50 points (2018, 4 more games)
    13. NYR 50 points (2017)

    We'll see where LAX winds up on this list.
     
  12. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Knave's Magic Numbers etc. topic said the top two clubs have the two easiest remaining schedules, so I don't think LAX will catch them. If there were five spots available for combined points, LAX would have more of a complaint.
     
  13. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LAFC will make up 3 of those points this week
     
  14. Justin O

    Justin O Member+

    Seattle Sounders
    United States
    Nov 30, 1998
    on the run from the covid
    Club:
    Seattle
    In this case the slot is in place of the 2017 MLS Cup winner. I don't see how LAFC can complain about not being able to compete for that slot, since they were not even playing in 2017.

    If, for example, Houston win the MLS Cup this year, and they go back to this table to pick another slot, then perhaps there are reasons to see that as unfair.
     
  15. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If they won the Supporters Shield and missed out, I might feel some sympathy, but they're not likely to finish higher than 3rd, so forget it.
     
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  16. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    This made no sense. We're only talking about giving a name to the other conference RS winner, that's it. Nothing about Europe.

    Wynalda Shield sounds good to me. Anything's better than otherconferenceregularseasonwinner.
    The USOC winner has done pretty well in CCL throughout its history, many times better than the league champ. This year's performance has no bearing on next year, there's no correlation at all between slot # and CCL success.
     
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  17. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's where the U.S. Open Cup winner ranked among the four American clubs in the 10 CCLs:

    2008-2009: New England was 4th (lost tiebreaker to Chivas USA on goal differential in the Qualifying Round)

    2009-2010: D.C. United was 2nd (won tiebreaker over Houston on Group Stage points when both of them were eliminated, D.C. had the most Group Stage points of American clubs but Columbus ranked 1st because they advanced)

    2010-2011: Seattle was 3rd (only American club eliminated in the Group Stage)

    2011-2012: Seattle was 2nd (lost tiebreaker to Los Angeles on goal differential in the Quarterfinals)

    2012-2013: Seattle was 1st (won tiebreaker over Los Angeles on goal differential in the Semifinals)

    2013-2014: Sporting Kansas City was 3rd (lost tiebreaker to Los Angeles and San Jose on goal differential in the Quarterfinals)

    2014-2015: D.C. United was 1st (only American club to reach the Quarterfinals)

    2015-2016: Seattle was 1st (won tiebreaker over Los Angeles on goal differential in the Quarterfinals and won tiebreaker over D.C. United and Real Salt Lake on goals scored in the Quarterfinals)

    2016-2017: Sporting Kansas City was 4th (fewest Group Stage points)

    2018: FC Dallas was 3rd (won tiebreaker over Colorado on goal differential in the Round of 16)

    The mean the numbers from 1 to 4 is 2.5, and the mean of those ten numbers is 2.4, so the U.S. Open Cup winners were near the American average. The U.S. Open Cup winners finished in each spot 2 or 3 times.

    Here are some notes:

    1. Sporting Kansas City won the 2017 U.S. Open Cup, but that qualified them for the 2019 CCL that hasn't happened yet.

    2. I know that clubs don't face equally difficult opponents, but this can be true for any confederation.

    3. There is no final ranking of the clubs, but using round eliminated followed by Group Stage points (if applicable) followed by goal differential (within each club's group or the same knockout round) followed by goals scored (in the same knockout round) is the fairest set of tiebreakers I could think of. None of the U.S. Open Cup winners faced another American club, so head-to-head could not be used.

    4. I did not care if the U.S. Open Cup winner qualified for the CCL in another way or not.
     
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  18. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    There's also the financial reward of playing home games. I support TFC. They were pulling in between $1.1 and $1.2 million per game last year. So they made something like $4.5 million on ticket sales alone over the course of the event.
     
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  19. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a financial reward, but you have to keep in mind the labor, utilities, supplies, and other expenses from home games. The revenue is not the same as the profit, whereas when TFC gets X amount of money from MLS's national TV contracts, they don't have expenses related to that.
     
  20. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    What you say is true. On the other hand, the players' salaries are presumably covered by regular play so these would be free games in that regard.

    Details aside, my point was that the teams do make money from the extra games. So they aren't playing only in the hope of winning some modest prize money.
     
  21. When Saturday Comes

    Apr 9, 2012
    Calgary
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    You also have to keep in mind TFC received extra TV $ from TSN and CCL. Plus sponsorship, merchandise, advertising revenue on top of the $1.2m in ticket sales revenue for the CCL matches (well at least those vs Mex opponents).
     
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  22. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't think about TV money. Do you know what the ratings were for TFC in the CCL compared to in MLS? How does TV money in the CCL work? None of the games are on regional sports networks in the USA. All of them are on national channels that bought the rights to the CCL not knowing how many games would have one or both clubs be from USA, Canada, or Mexico. It's different from ESPN and FS1 buying the rights to X amount of MLS regular season games and getting to pick which ones.
     
  23. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any money for CCL (as little as it may be) goes to Concacaf, they pay price money and give some travel allowances, but that is it, anything else they keep (Concacaf also gets a percentage of ticket sales, 15-30% I forget the number).
     
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    GO90.com has broadcast rights in the US.

    Verizon’s streaming platform go90 has acquired the English-language rights to broadcast the CONCACAF Champions League to viewers in the United States.

    Fox owns the rights throughout Latin American but doesn't seem to have cared about the US.

    Through this deal, FOX Sports has secured CONCACAF Champions League’s exclusive broadcasting rights across all platforms for Mexico and South America, as well as pay-TV and digital rights in Central America for the two CONCACAF club tournaments (the annual Champions League and the club championship among Central American and Caribbean teams).
    Read more: FOX secures CONCACAF Champions League rights through to 2022 | Deals | News | Rapid TV News https://www.rapidtvnews.com/2017051...gue-rights-through-to-2022.html#ixzz5U2fcIHPu
    Follow us: @rapidtvnews on Twitter
     
  25. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Go90 doesn't exist anymore.
     
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