2019 Coaching Thread

Discussion in 'Coach' started by stphnsn, Mar 11, 2019.

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  1. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I suspect that it isn't just less physical abilities, but less tactical experience and less cognitive ability as well. The universal childhood games developed children mentally and physically. Hopscotch, jump rope, Red Rover, Mother May I, Simon Says, tag, and keep-away games all had development value. Tag and keep-away are tactical learning that is directly applicable to soccer. I took advantage of the kid's experience by building on that experience in training. I suspect in the suburbs there are children who never play the traditional childhood games. Video games and watching TV are no substitute.

    Apparently others have noticed too. When I took the E-License course in 2014, the instructor stressed the lack of focus and the need to train it. Something that never was an issue in the 1990s when I coached youth.
     
  2. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    Maybe the ref forum can offer some suggestions on what to do. I guess in the perfect soccer world the input could be provided to the body that oversees/trains the refs and take action to help this particular ref.
     
  3. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    https://www.instagram.com/p/B4UwofSpZU4/?igshid=10bonlkeywmq

    It's like that "Spain with 9 guys from barca plus casillas and ramos" effect...

    I'll have to look for video, with that much time together I'd hope they play something other than win it/send it/shoot it
     
  4. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Biggest differences between Club soccer (highest tier) vs Travel soccer (middle tier) that I noticed this year. Better athletes in Club but soccer isn't necessarily better, the top third of players in Club are better individual players but most of the roster was similar to travel. I actually was pleasantly surprised that a lot of the travel teams played out from the back (POFTB).

    Where POFTB failed in most instances was all it meant to teams was to pass to the CB at the side of the box, but it was clear they didn't get any instruction beyond that. Further, they didn't link the technical to the tactical: how can we enhance the build out by; passing to the correct foot, scanning before we receive, using good body shape, giving good support angles, not forcing the pass, losing our marker.
     
  5. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    It's been about 10 years since the Barca heyday and the 3four3 video dropped, makes one optimistic that in 10 more years the kids who knew how to knock it around the back before launching it will figure out how to coach play into the midfield before passing in behind to the fast kid. By 2040 we might regularly see teams be able to break down and penetrate a low defensive block.
     
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  6. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I was just thinking about that because I remember showing that first 3four3 video to my players over the winter (some of those kids called out by name in that video are playing pro in Europe, I believe).

    Think about that: we'll call them the "leading practitioners in the US (of possession soccer)". That was ten years ago. Barca was playing this way so they've been indoctrinated into the style 20 years ago. Rinus Michels 50+, who coached Cruyff at Ajax, was one of the progenitors of this style of play (if not THE). Cruyff coached Ajax and Barca around 30 years ago.

    Based on that, we're 30–50 years behind the rest of the world in what is "basic play". It's growing but the quality isn't good yet.

    At least our state assoc recommended teams play like this, but hardly gave coaches the support they need to really play like this.
     
  7. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    #282 CoachP365, Nov 1, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    Going out on a limb here, spitballing if you will...
    Maybe the "no tactics before u14"/"footskills uber alles" was a misunderstanding of Total Football.

    If you have 10 ball winning/outplaying/take-on winning machines, you don't need to worry so much about tactics - whichever of your players gets the ball, they win their 1v1, twist & turn their 1vN until a pass is open, etc.

    But really, it wasn't so much that the Dutch had 10 guys just as good as Cruyff - it's that they had 10 guys who understood their style of play, and what every role was in that style of play, so that if the CB went on a run, the person dropping in knew what the role was in support and if they transitioned to defending.

    My experience, limited as it is, is that technically limited players seem to thrive once they know what their role is. LIke "you're playing wide, so you support x, when the ball is here you show, when you have the ball these are your looks, generally when the ball is inside we try to come outside, be ready, when the ball is outside look ahead then look diagonally then look..."

    Most kids can do that with one good foot, you can work on doing tht with a weaker foot, you can practice "instead of passing I want tyou to cut in" for 10 reps, progress to "ok in this game it's up to you but I want to see at least 3 times where you take someone on, your team will get an extra point if they score after that". It can help with the guided discovery - the team knows they always pass from out wide so they lay off and intercept, with the new tools they can't do that, now they have to deal with you, are you completing more passes again? Imagine a team that doesn't see you 2x a week, they'll have no idea how to handle you Giggsinho....

    Even "when it comes to you kick it forward if you're in their half or the middle of our half, if you're not facing their goal and in our half kick it out". That's not good for long term development, but once they know that's their job, I see kids jumping in, much more so than the kid who kinda thinks he should dribble past as many kids as he can, but the last 20 times that didn't wo OH NO THAT KID TOOK THE BALL WHILE I WAS THINKING AND COACH ALWAYS PUTS ME AT CB SO ITS ANOTHER BREAKAWAY!!!!
     
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  8. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Totally unprepared for the fluid 2-6-3 attacking formations that drop to a 1-3-5-2 to defend that will be the norm by then :)
     
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  9. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Guys, I have to disagree with you. You are making the assumption that tactics and style are uniform in a country. Truth of the matter is even Ajax plays like Ajax--sometimes. The vast majority of Dutch do not play like Cruyff. There are many top coaches who openingly criticize Cruyff's ideas.

    If you ever played competitive basketball, then you are familiar with the way to break down man to man defenses by pulling the markers out of position. Zone defenses dominate now so Barca in the 90's and 2000's didn't move around like the Ajax teams of the early 70's. Barca, again like basketball, pulled apart zone defenses by passing. So with Barca, the ball moved more and the players moved less.

    What is important is the Dutch style priniciples of play. Such as staying compact front to back, which means the team advancing as a unit into the opponent's half without expanding the shape by playing kick and run. This means playing a positional game like chess so that they are well positioned to defend even while attacking. Again that means not playing kick and run and stretching the team all out of shape. This is exactly what conventional US tactics doesn't do. Conventional US tactics keeps the players spread out and isolated so that it is easy for the opponent to maintain numbers up wherever the ball goes.

    Conventional coaching has players playing by rote, using predetermined patterns, instead of creating solutions to tactical problems. This is how some people played 30 years ago, but not how soccer was played by everyone. The changes to the LOTG allowing coaching from the sidelines and substitutions have created coaches that dictate how teams should play. This was not the case prior to the changes in the laws. Coaches set the line up and then the captains ran the teams on the field. Now coaches can sub players out if they don't strictly follow the coaches instructions. The game is much the worse for it.
     
  10. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012

    Is there any country besides here where kick and run is part of the style? even being generous with “overly hopeful direct play that frequently bypasses midfield”

    I was happy when we got to u13 and started playing on football fields, really helped with the “when they have the ball 30yds from backs to forwards” while defending as a group.
     
  11. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    There are many ways to score. Teams should use the tools they have. If they have a very fast sprinter, they should use it, or an agility player like Messi, then use it. Dribble and shoot. Or kick and run like Gareth Bale, Heung Min Son, Kaka do when they have an advantage. I don't see why a particular style has to be done 100% of the time. Use what you have. America had more success when they did the old style. Results are what matters, not whether you tiki-taka'd your way to the goal or one man ran it all the way.
     
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  12. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    The problem is having only one style. In 2009, the US MNT beat Spain because when Spain fell behind and had to chase the game, they didn't play that style very well.
     
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  13. 3LionsCoaching

    Arsenal
    England
    Nov 16, 2017
    Has anyone applied to, and heard back from, the upcoming USSF B licence courses? I applied a month ago - still waiting to hear if I even got in.
     
  14. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    People on twitter wer posting their acceptances today...good luck...
     
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  15. 3LionsCoaching

    Arsenal
    England
    Nov 16, 2017
    Ahh here we go! Thanks
     
  16. Buckingham Badger

    May 28, 2003
    I'm going to agree and disagree all at once. I spent much of the last year trying and trying to teach the kids to play and see the game as a chess match. My 2 loves are basketball and soccer and I'd spend countless hours explaining why to my wife. One day she turned to me and told me I was full of shit. I explained to her that I loved soccer because the game cannot be dictated by the coach as there are not set plays and the best skilled can and should beat the better athletes if they know what they are doing. But then I argued that in basketball with supeior coaching can a team that is less athletic can win. How could I argue on one hand that soccer is great because of less coaching and then argue the same thing was due to coaching. She was right.

    That was week 4 of this fall season. It honestly kept me awake at night (several) trying to make this work in my mind. Our biggest improvements as a U10 was when I showed kids and we walked through (almost like plays) on how to POTB with a breakout line. We were struggling again with this (as the breakout line was now gone) and the kids were trying but failing technically and tactically as they were looking only at one half of the field. I felt like we were regressing in practice - everyone said they knew what to do, you'd ask questions and they'd tell you what you wanted to hear. (Scan the field as the pass is coming, receive across the body, find the open man where you have an advantage (you can go back to go forward, pass and move, etc). But what I realized is that American kids do not watch the game so I effectively built plays. When there is a goal kick we initially set up as this. The goalie scans the field and plays to 2,4, or 7 depending on what he sees. The 2,3,4, 7 and 11 move to these spots if the ball goes to A. Different spots if it goes to the 4. If it goes to the 2 he has to still make a call and find the open player but the movements are generally known.

    The extra structure allows us to build a foundation. Our last game my 2 stepped up and stole the ball from their winger/forward just before the 18 and he tried to play forward (they always want to go forward). it got blocked, he pivoted and we went 4-3-6-3 up the line to the 9 just outside their 18 who pivoted and hit the 7 streaking and he buried it from a 45 degree angle. This is a c level u11 team which was amazing. They took rehearsed plays from POTB and did them in the flow of the game. They had no idea that is what they did but since I don't think 5 of my kids have ever watched 1 game that was not their own or their brothers I have to give them plays. Fine but they are already taking them and modifying them.
    In our league the top teams all play compact and aggressive since everyone is trying to teach POTB. Since we are C level teams every player has some major holes so the defenders are often well into our half daring someone to go over their head. The premier club in our area does this and wins this way since they have better athletes (usually) and others emulate. My kids are not aware enough to figure this out on their own yet but after 15 minutes and I make a few subs telling them how we are going to play and yes I implore possession but I want as a 6 or 10 to play the ball to the 9 or 11 beyond the Defender and let them run onto it. Get 3 goals in 5 minutes and they drop to a more conventional position and then I remind the kids that they have changed and there should be space in the midfield now when there wasn't before. If I was not there coaching from the side the kids don't have enough experience to figure it out on their own and they would get killed. Their coach has the same ability to adjust and I don't think its joystick coaching. Hell if players in pro leagues are getting notes from their coaches midgame then why the hell shouldn't we help the youngest.
     
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  17. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There's a Sean McVay interview where he echoes some of what you describe: capability vs capacity

    capability is rote. We build out with a 4-7-9 pass sequence, because that's what we drill. Capacity is giving them the knowledge WHY we play that pattern, allowing them to solve the problem on the fly. What happens when the 7 is covered??

    Pep studied a lot of basketball in his year off between Barca and Bayern. But also, interestingly enough, he showed his CAPACITY to adapt to the German game. Initially, he just thought he was going to bring Barca to Munich but German teams defended differently.
     
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  18. Buckingham Badger

    May 28, 2003
    Thanks for eloquently stating what I stuttered and stumbled thru.
    Had my sons birthday party this weekend turning 10. Plan was to take 8 kids plus my 3 to one of those trampoline parks. Weather turned colder quicker and there used to be 2 of them in town and 1 closed. Place ended up packed so we bailed.

    Went home, got pizzas and after watching the idiots play tackle football in my living room sent them outside where they stood around with nothing to do. Went outside asked if they knew how to play Ghosts in the graveyard, kick the can, etc. Nope, none of them. Trepidation but I started it and within 10 minutes they were full on. It was 25 degrees and dark and they are crawling around snow and laying trying to hide. Fantastic.

    Kids are the same. They want to be and play with their friends. Let them explore. I was burnt out 2/3rds of the way thru the season with frustration but we ended well. I had been starting on getting ahead and starting to build my practice schedule framework and what I wanted to accomplish. Reviewed it last night. I'm simplifying it down. We are going to be the Lombardi Green Bay Packers. We're going to do the same things over and over again until its simple. We are not going to possess simply to possess (when we can) but we will attack (and fail lots) but we will be aggressive. I'm already excited. But first wrestling, basketball and futsal.
     
  19. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We played a 3v1+GK to goal at our last fall practice. It wasn't the goal, but I could see my player on the ball reading how the defender played her. Sometimes, I insert myself into the game to create a specific situation so I can see how they react.
     
  20. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    My Men's team lost the final today. We'd played the opponents close over the past several seasons, one goal losses.

    It was an interesting strategic and tactical contrast. They played more of a possession style and we are more direct. They played a 3-2-3-2 vs our 442.

    They picked up 3, soft early goals with miscommunication and misplays between our CB and GK. But we also didn't create much—I think we only had two shots on goal all games despite having some really good, fast, big, athletic forwards.

    To me, the game hunger on a few things. We lost our CB in the semi to an injury and his replacement didn't really give us much to build from. Again, we like to punt and long goal kicks and boot out of the back (I'd prefer not to) again no build out. So we play a 442 but due to positioning we were really playing an off center 433 or at worse a 424. So we were really out numbered in the midfield.

    442 would've worked nicely, IMO, because their shape was narrow. The outside mids and full backs could've really given them problems, if we weren't lumping 50/50s into the middle every time.
     
  21. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    My fall season ended today with my HS girls losing in the semi-final of our Rec HS Cup tournament. It was a bummer because we generally played a better game but gave up a goal when we failed to clear it out of the box.

    This was a great season, coaching the little ones (Kinder boys and 1st grade girls) was incredibly rewarding as I watched them grow every week.
     
  22. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    At our Sat game, the other coach rubbed me the wrong way a bit. So in my head I said I would have to teach him a lesson by playing my strong kids more and running up the score. Payback. Maybe that's wrong. idk. One thing he did was he started their kick-off before our kids were ready. He didn't have a whistle, just told his kids to go (and he didn't say it loud enough for us to hear) so we're caught off guard. Didn't ask if we're ready. I find that shady. It's happened before. So every game at the beginning I explicitly say that I'll blow the whistle at a kick off after making sure each team is ready. So when an opposing coach doesn't wait for me to whistle, or doesn't blow his whistle, and doesn't make sure each team is ready, I get pissed and I feel they are using trickery and then I have to also lower myself and use trickery or perhaps just brute force and cause them more pain. We only won 9-2 but I could tell from his body language he was distraught from our dominance. They were good and I suspect weren't used to such a whipping. I have learned, from my first season coaching, that some coaches are quite sly and have tricks up their sleeve to give them an unfair advantage. I'm lucky that I have two great players who can dominate. Though I also have 5 very slow players.
     
  23. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Lol. Why do coaches do that???

    If you guys are reffing, then that means this is a pretty young age group?
     
  24. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    This is youth soccer. Remember your WHY, and remember your kids' WHYS. We're not here to cause pain. Leave your ego in the car, and help ALL the kids on the field have a good time.
     
  25. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Seems like my kid is "snapping out of it". Last year she HATED soccer, her body language on the field and in practice showed it. This fall, She was all in and played decently but still "recovering". I planned on reducing her soccer work load through November and December of this year—one indoor game per week. In indoor, she's been moving really well and I can see the fire, competitiveness, and just the joy of playing returning. I'm thrilled about that. She loves the challenge, last week she had to go against a boy for most of the game and she was bragging to mom who she was just wrecking him (accurate) (she never dialogues like that with me). This week she gave up two goals while playing GK and she was being hyper critical of herself (they lost by one goal). I'm just happy that she's not indifferent about winning, losing, and performance.

    Night and day difference. Glad to have gotten her out of that toxic environment.

    I'm not letting her touch a soccer ball during the week until January 1, 2020, but we're doing other athletic things—basketball and martial arts specifically. For at least 1/4 of each indoor game she plays GK to further break up the sports specificity of her game time.

    I'm seeing this indoor period as a time for free play, so I'm not coaching much. It's their time to play different positions. It's a time for me to check for understanding, what they internalized during the season. It's a time to play different formations. As a club, it's a league that we have a little bit of control of, so we are playing with multiple ages from our club so we are mixing teams when possible.
     

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