You keep misquoting me. And, I don’t understand what you’re trying to prove by doing so? I didn’t say Atlanta would maul West Ham and the other mid table EPL teams... if they were mauling the mid table EPL teams then they would be a top 5 team in the world. Which, I know I’ve never said, even as hyperbole. Could they compete against West Ham, Wolverhampton, Newcastle, etc... then yes, I believe they could. Would I give them an edge over Fulham right now? Certainly, I would. But Atlanta vs Guangzhou... they’d murder. And apparently, Guangzhou is a top 75 team. Nonetheless, my reference was that some of the teams in the 100+ range is just insulting to say they are better than Atlanta.
11bravo, If I misunderstood your point, I apologize. I believe you said that ATL would maul most of the teams between them at 197 and 100 and that you thought they were roughly a mid EPL level team which means top 100. The top Mexican teams definitely fall outside the top 100 so I presume you meant that they should maul these teams as well as all others in CCL if your presumption is correct. In other words, if ATL is as good as you think (and you are entitled to your opinion of course), they should win CCL handily. I know nothing of Guangzhou so I can’t comment on that. If they’re ranked high, they must have done well in international competitions and have a very high market value. Have you seen them play?
Honestly, it’s just hard to tell because you’re right in the sense that there are a lot of clubs still outside of Europe that would be tough teams, even as good as I believe Atlanta is. For instance, I would rank River Plate, Boca Juniors, etc above them. In North America, I would predict they will win the CCL because no team in MLS history has ever been as stacked as they are. But they do need to prove that boasting though... so, out of principle I might have to rate Club America, Chivas, etc above them still. But i’d counter that margin is growing very small. But how the hell can anyone rank Guangzhou or even Celtic above Atlanta is beyond me. Or to insinuate that Atlanta is the equivalent of a Ligue 2 team is absurd. MLS isn’t the greatest thing ever but it’s not this horrible league either. Before I’m misquoted, I don’t think Atlanta would maul Celtic, but I do rank Atlanta above Celtic. Honestly, I’d rank Atlanta probably right around 75-125 at this point. Higher based on their potential and lower because they still need to prove their worth.Which, I think that’s fair.
If needed, I’ll go down the list and predict a score line I’d predict between the two teams. Between Atlanta and Guangzhou. I’d give Atlanta 4-0
I'm not moving the bar so much as pointing to the first hurdle. If they can win the CCL, then they will go to the CWC. They will then play clubs from UEFA and CONMEBOL and others. We might see how they would do. We know how the Mexican teams have done and we know how we have done against the Mexican teams. I have lots of data on how Everton does against Man. City, let's see Atlanta get to the point where they are playing a real game against Man. City. It might look like an EPL game or it might look like #5 in the World versus #178.
FCD signed another young academy central midfielder yesterday. Edwin Cerrillo. They're like a central midfield assembly line. 31st academy product to sign a professional contract (whether with FCD or elsewhere). The central midfielders alone include McKennie, Acosta, Hyndman, Pomykal, Roberts, Servania, Cappis, Ulloa, Cerrillo, etc. You know how Penn State is called "Linebacker U?" FC Dallas is turning into "Central Midfielder U." The oldest of that group is only 26. Pomykal and Servania look to be getting substantially more playing time with the FCD first team in 2019. Both should be on the "preseason watch list" for the 2019 MLS Breakout Youngster of the Year. 📰 FC Dallas signs @Edwincerrillo, who becomes the first @FCDallasYouth Academy product signed under new head coach Luchi Gonzalez.https://t.co/eTMFtZCN9v— FC Dallas (@FCDallas) February 14, 2019
Honestly, I’d like to see something implemented where FC Dallas was better rewarded for their academy system. That should be the standard across the league.
Its good that Sargent isn't going to be the runaway winner. We can argue about the quality of the Scottish League, but on the other hand this kid is having IMPACT. And he seems to have a bit of personality, which the USMNT can certainly use. Love what I'm seeing. Worth noting that he turns 19 this week. 1097205221212766208 is not a valid tweet id
It is good...it shows how far we have come in a relatively short time. before Puliscic how many very young Americans did we have making any kind of an impact at a young age? Donovan (18yrs...but never settled in), JOB (Pro debut at 21, Ajax at 22), Reyna (debut 21)...probably a few others but that gives a pretty good idea over 20+ yrs. Now we have Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Sargent, Weah in just a few years of each other with a few of those at various stages of truly establishing their careers in the first team already. More to come.
On another note, How does Adams fit into this thread? Is he considered to have already broken out due to his experience/success in MLS and or the national team or is he a breakout candidate? I see a great deal of talk at times about the need to breakout in a "major" league and I don't really have a feel for the consensus. I also see comments at times about the breakout being as much/more for the USMNT.
To me, he has already broken out. He was the USMNT's best player over the course of 2018 and had a fantastic 2nd season at NYRB, coming a missed BWP sitter away from the finals of the CCL, and helping his team to the best regular season in league history before losing to a dynamic Atlanta squad in the conference finals. 2019 has to be about someone else, in my opinion.
That is half a team right there. Our oldest most likely starter is Brooks at 26, followed by Yedlin at 25, Miazga at 23, Robinson at 21 and finally Steffen at 23. Wait a minute that is 10 players. One spot left for Bradley at 31 :-O
Yup. We're in the USMNT forum and not the Yanks Abroad forum. So the discussion tends to be breakout to the USMNT based on club play (whether foreign or domestic). So from that point of view Adams broke out last season when he became a core player for the USMNT. The front runners in Europe are Sargent and Weah, which will be an interesting discussion. Folks used to talk a lot about Jonathan Amon, but he seems to have fallen off to some degree. Over the next couple of weeks we can perhaps make the pre-season watch list of kids that'll break into the USMNT based on club play. Who is 2019's version of Reggie Cannon and Mark McKenzie? When we're thru the preseason games we'll have an idea of what youngsters have a shot at being starters. Paxton Pomykal, for example.
I'm gonna disagree here. I know that there are loose parameters that have been discussed here, but if you asked any player on the USMNT to ask which player is "breaking out" right now, I'd bet they say Adams. From never playing in Europe to becoming a week-in, week-out starter for a Champions League team, that fits my definition. I think a player can break out twice, just in different ways on different scales.
Adams was the 2018 winner. He is still U23 and has under 9 caps at the start of the year. So, I guess he could be eligible and he could be making another break out. But we usually exclude past winners. 2016 Pulisic 2017 McKennie 2018 Adams It is not just USMNT. It is taking a giant step for club which usually always coincides with a big inclusion in the USMNT. Maybe in a few years it won't. You can break out in MLS, Adams certainly did. He made the move at the end of year to put the cherry on top.
I would say: 2011: Agudelo, Chandler, Fab, DWill, Brek Shea, Tim Ream, Hamid 2012: Cameron*, Zusi*, Morales, Boyd 2013: AJ, John Brooks, Corona, Gonzo*, Besler* 2014: Yedlin, Green 2015: Zardes, Wood, Morris, Alvarado 2016: Pulisic, Nagbe, Arriola, Kellyn Acosta Players with * were not really "youngsters"
not sure his age at the time, but dmb at psv was, at the vert least, the fourth most impressive ya stint (dempsey, job, pulisic).
Don't forget Donovan's time at Everton. I know it was short...but it was sweet. Beasley's stint may still have been better due to his experience playing in Champions league. Reyna also did pretty well. I believe he was voted young player of the year in Germany? Captain America is a pretty impressive nickname that he earned.
There is no definition, so anybody's answer is as good as anybody else's. Many people chose Adams as their breakout player of 2018. You can only "break out" to the USMNT once. Tyler started getting caps for the USMNT in 2017, and was a core player for the USMNT in 2018. I just want to reiterate that this is breakout to the USMNT (as we're in the USMNT forum). Not breakout to big-time Euro club football.
To me, there is an asterisk next to whoever was the breakout player of 2018. No competitive games, interim manager, mostly youth caps. I may be wrong but I think at one point we had 6 YNT eligible players on the field.
Again, it is all of a players performance. Just getting a cap or two is not a break out. Becoming a lock starter would be a good thing to put on the resume here but rarely does a player become that for the USMNT without taking a jump in his club form too. When Adams got his first cap he was a mostly wingback for an ok NYRB team and he was mostly good. He was good, not great, at the U20 WC. Over the course of 2018, he moved to CM, started to dominate MLS games, was on the MLS All-Star team, and was probably the best performer for the USMNT during the entirety of the year, getting 8 caps in 11 games. He then moved from MLS to RB Leipzig in the Bundesliga, after they wanted him in July. That is a break out. Weah kind of worked his way into the mix on the USMNT last year, but his club career has not taken off. It is possible we are seeing it take off now and he could be a UCL starter for Celtic next September or starting for Rennes or Augsburg. Sargent has not pushed into the USMNT really, Wood has started over him and most people have Altidore ahead of Wood and some might have Weah ahead of him. His club career is coming slowly, on purpose I believe. But by next Fall, he could be starting for Bremen and scoring 10 goals by December 31st; maybe a few in the Europa League. There are others. Dest might be starting for Ajax, Mendez might be starting for Freiberg, Ledezma might be starting at PSV. There are even more. There always seems like there are a lot of possibilities in February and someone will emerge. But maybe we have a real tough decision next December. I'm optimistic that the USMNT will get better and younger as all these players push out the older generation. At that point, just kind of getting near the PSG or Werder team will probably not get you a ton of caps. Players will start to break out at club level but not on the USMNT till later. Then that criteria will become more important. In other words, in the not to far future, a 21 year old could start for Hannover and not get immediately capped. Most of the January camp invites will not be seen until the next January.