2019 Breakout Youngster

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by TheFalseNine, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would say one, Alphonso Davies. Yes he's Canadian. He did have that sort of electrifying impact though, and because of his performances in MLS and his immense talent he's now at Bayern Munchen.

    In general I agree with your premise though, as Davies is the exception and not the rule in MLS. Perhaps that will change in the coming years as some teams put greater emphasis on their academy.
     
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  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    My assertion in fact is that if Weah continues performing at this level, even if it "just" in the SPL.........................that's USMNT caliber. Cuz the talent pool right now at forward is shallow.

    We're all basically on the same page. I mean, yes................we can weigh the quality of the league when discussing Sargent in the Bundesliga versus Weah in the SPL. For our fictitious "Breakout Youngster of the year" award anyway. In order to win that competition, Weah needs to really provide routine impact. So far he's doing exactly that.

    And this thread is "Breakout" to the USMNT (hence its on the USMNT page and not Yanks abroad). There's been some debate about whether Weah should be at the Gold Cup or the u20 World Cup this summer. [Its unlikely that a player goes to both.] I think we're getting close to the point of earmarking him for the Gold Cup with the senior USMNT.

    I'm there. No more Weah, Sargent, or Adams for the U20s. U23s for Olympic qualifying and USMNT.
     
  3. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, it's starting to look like Weah will be with the MNT at the GC. Clubs are not forced to release players for youth tournaments. So, that option may no longer be available.
     
  4. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Tyler Adams with three straight 90s for RBL.
     
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  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Miles Robinson is a sleeper in this category. Still young for a central defender at 21. And he's seemingly breaking into the cb pairing or trio in Atlanta now. He was singled out by Warshaw as the only American in his top 5 MLS breakouts. Showed a lot of defensive ability from the outset as a 19 year old from his range, solid size, and focus. But I think they wanted him to develop more with his feet for the system, which he's seemingly done.

    He reminds me a lot of Aaron Long, only he'd be emerging 5 years earlier to more easily facilitate a transfer overseas.
     
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    At least 5 of the forwards in the US pool would wreck the SPL.

    Gotta go with J. Lewis for the MLS Breakout Youngster.

    Surely, Sargent would be European Leagues Breakout Youngster.
     
  7. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #132 Eleven Bravo, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
    To be honest it is just stupid the level of talent Atlanta has right now...

    If we just went with which I think will be a 343 this year...

    GK Guzan
    CB Pogba, Hernandez
    CB LGP, Robinson
    CB Parkhurst, Escobar
    RM Gressel, Pereira
    CM Nagbe, McCann, Katz
    CM Remedi, Larentowicz
    LM Barco, Bello, Shea
    FW Villalba, Vasquez
    FW Josef, Williams
    FW Pity, Carleton
    ...just not good enough to get minutes: Kunga, Ambrose, Okonkwo, Gallagher, Wild, Goslin

    Point being, if he even can make Atlanta’s team that is an absolute feat. Almost every single player on the second team would be good enough to start for almost every other MLS team. Compare them to San Jose, who aside from Lima would even sniff their line-up? They’ve got nobody. That’s a game Atlanta should win by 5 to 7 goals if they don’t take their foot off the gas.

    This Atlanta team is so good I would say it would be competitive as a top ten EPL team right now. Honestly, I’d put my money on them over Wolverhampton at this point.
     
  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Respectfully, this is way off base unless I don't understand what you mean by "competitive".

    One of its two best players just transferred to a team that is outside of the top 10 in EPL and yet there's a thought that the team he left is better than the team to which he transferred.

    538 has the following in global club rank:

    Wolverhampton: 47
    ATL: 178

    Do I think 538 is perfect? Nah but a top 50 team is better than a team between 150 and 200......Maybe we should first see how ATL does in the CONCACAF Champions League vs. Mexico's top teams.
     
  9. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Atlanta's backline and keeper aren't EPL quality. And there isn't EPL quality depth in the other areas of the team. Strong C'ship level? Possibly.

    We're not in UEFA, anyways. Winning CCL is the first order of business.
     
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  10. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’d say;

    Mid-table EPL level:
    LGP, Pogba, Nagbe (consistency the factor here), Villalba, Pity, Josef, Barco, Gressel

    Bottom tier EPL level:
    Guzan, Parkhurst (i’d rate above Ream), Remedi, Escobar (better than Yedlin)

    Championship Level:
    Larentowicz, McCann

    League One:
    Vasquez, Williams, Katz, Shea

    Too young to tell but top quality promise: Bello, Carleton, Robinson, Pereira
    Personally, Bello is the guy who I’ve got pegged to reach Tyler Adams level this MLS season... if he can crack the XI.
     
  11. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I’d say those rankings are the furthest thing from perfect. Most of those teams from 100 to them, Atlanta would maul.

    If Atlanta can stay healthy, then I’d say they have the best chance of any team in MLS history to win the CONCACAF champions league. People need to remember, they were really good last year, but they should be as improved in 2019 as they were from 2018.

    For that reason, I think Robinson might have a hard time beating out some of the competition. And, I hope Bello gets a fair shake because he could be a monster.
     
  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    People talk about this Atlanta team like they won the treble or something.

    They weren't the Supporter's Shield winners. Ya know..........................a different team broke the record for most points in an MLS season last year. And also broke the record for most WINS in a season. The one with Tyler Adams controlling the midfield. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me.

    Atlanta scored tons of goals. Also conceded way too many goals, which is why they fell short of the SS. The defense is average at best. I mean......................let's be clear. Florentin Pobga. Mid-EPL quality???? They just acquired him from a team in the Turkish 2nd division. For Pete's sake!
     
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  13. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I’ll assume that “farthest thing from perfect” is an exaggeration but it looks like you think that ATL is a top 50 team in the world.

    Wrt to the talent level, Almiron is a definitionally a mid table EPL player and I’d put Martinez and perhaps Pity in that level. The rest....uh, no.

    If you are correct, ATL shouldn’t just win CCL, it should be a “mauling” as Mexico’s top teams are t top 100. Looking forward to seeing your prediction come true.
     
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  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Step 1. Become the best in Concacaf
    Step 2. Do something at the CWC
    Step 3. Play some Copa Libertadores
     
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  15. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, average is being the 4th best defense in the league?
     
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  16. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because Atlanta would struggle against Guingamp, Molde, Jablonec, Brentford, etc.. what a joke. It is insulting to say those teams are ahead of Atlanta when those matches would be no contest. Seriously, the equivalent would be like the US is not as good as Northern Ireland, Finland, or hell Azerbaijan.
     
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  17. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I won't argue one way or the other about the comparison between ATL and any PL team

    My point, however, is that computerized "objective" rankings are completely useless when comparing teams from Europe and teams from MLS (or Mx etc). The computerized rankings, as I understand it, depend on databases involving common opponents. Ex: a team from the bottom of PL may never have played a team from the bottom of B1 the PL teams have played MU, Man City, Arsenal etc and the B1 team has played Bayern, Dortmund etc. When all the competitions in Europe are put into the data base, teams that have never been on the same field can be compared with a certain level of accuracy. As you pointed out it's not perfect but you can be pretty darn sure that a team ranked 150 is not anywhere near a top 50 team.

    The problem with comparing teams from Europe to the Americas comes with the lack of competition between the continents. When was the last time a MLS team played against a European team of any league in a meaningful game? How about Mex? That means that any comparison basically has to start with a guess of some kind which takes the objectivity out of it or it depends upon too small of a data base of common opponents. (the other issue is that there aren't even that many data points between leagues in North and Central America, let alone Europe.) Too much extrapolation is required for the estimate to be valid.

    Sorry for the off topic
     
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. Computerized rankings are totally meaningless, and there's no such thing as head-to-head to look at. Euro clubs do play pre-season games against MLS teams, but they're not representative of anything.

    Here's what I do know. MLS clubs really struggle with Liga MX teams in the CCL.
    Liga MX teams go to the Club World Cup and get their asses handed to them. In 2018, Chivas just finished in 6th place out of 6 teams (after losing to a team from Tunisia in the 5th place match).

    When I think about Atlanta, I think they do have a lot of potential breakout youngsters. The top of the list for me is George Bello, who may be one of the best American left back prospects I've seen in a long time.
     
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  19. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    And in 2017 Pachuca was third overall...so what can we make of that?

    Nothing!

    Too few data points. I believe that the Club World Cup is the only intercontinental competition that the Americas participate in? Maybe there is something else?
     
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  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I make of it that they didn't even get to the point of playing a European team..............

    That Pachuca team featured Omar Gonzalez at centerback, whom the BigSoccer intelligentsia has deemed a disaster for his performances during the crucial games of 2018 WCQing.
     
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  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #146 Clint Eastwood, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    A talented kid to keep an eye on. Another central midfielder from Texas. Ho hum. [See McKennie, Parks, Acosta, Hyndman, Ulloa, Corben Bone (Cincinnati), Nguyen, Pomykal, Dillon Powers, etc. FCD reportedly about to sign another academy central midfielder Edwin Cerrillo. The Texas national team will have the midfield covered.] Cappis recently was at the FCD academy for a year. Prior to that he was on the Houston Texans team (with Chris Richards) that won a DA title two years ago. He wanted to sign a homegrown deal with FCD, but was deemed ineligible. In almost any other cycle he'd be a shoe-in for our U20 WC team. This cycle we have a very strong central midfield group, and that's with Tyler Adams of Leipzig and Richie Ledesma of PSV not available (reportedly anyway).
     
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  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    There have only been a few times Atlanta has had to deal with a game even close to the speed of an EPL game. When they play the NYRB. One of those games, NYRB sat back for whatever reason and tried to bunker. The other games NYRB took the speed of the game to another level and dominated Atlanta.

    It all looks the same on TV, but it isn't. Consider the ManU/PSG game yesterday, it was played at a blistering pace. Not the speed of the players (but that is a component), but the amount of decisions players have to make per second.

    Nagbe can't play at that pace. He was completely ineffective in the September NYRB game. He can keep possession but under any pressure can only play backwards. Calling him "mid-table EPL" quality, as if he could start for Everton seems more than a stretch.

    I am curious to see how Atlanta does against the best Mexican teams. That would be the bar to compare them to. Not Everton or Wolverhampton.
     
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  23. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    The problem is you have set up a moving line here. Anything short of winning the CL and you will say I told you so.
     
  24. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    And that’s fair if the counterclaim is that ATL is a mid table EPL team. In fact, they should be able to “maul” them...
     
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  25. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    We can make nothing out of an annual competition with multiple NA teams? C’mon. It’s weak to ignore data that you don’t like.

    NA generally teams do poorly in them and there’s data to be gleaned over the years. If Pachuca does well then the value of LigaMx goes up. I note that 538 doesn’t go by score only but by chances generated, etc.

    I’d note that 538 also uses market value as a minor component of rankings.
     

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