2019 Breakout Youngster

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by TheFalseNine, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    im still hoping he gets the call and a few starts at the gold cup as a showcase
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Pomykal? Maybe. But its unlikely FCD would want to release him for both the U20 World Cup and the Gold Cup. They are paying his salary after all!

    More likely is the U20 World Cup and then Olympic qualifying (aka U23 CONCACAF Championships) in the fall...………...
     
  3. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s a lot to respond to, but to tease you back, while I always like your analysis, pretty much your support for any youth player is their kiss of death ;)
     
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  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    That’s quite funny. Shall we revisit Erik Palmer-Brown or Paxton Pomykal? What about Weston McKennie? I ordinarily don’t feel the need to toot my own horn. We are all fans and not professionals in the football business. Everyone is right sometimes and wrong other times, but if you are going to try to call me out after you made some outlandish claims, I’ll have to do so to defend myself.
     
  5. glutton4Bolts

    glutton4Bolts Member+

    United States
    Mar 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It comes off that way because the players you talk about the most are the players where your opinion is the most different from everyone else's. Guys like Haji and Agudelo are players that everyone else has long ago changed their opinion on, but you maintain your support. I mean, there was a point when literally every single person on here thought Carleton would be an absolute stud early on, and it wasn't too long ago.

    At this point it's irrefutable that Carleton has off the field issues. Two coaches, both of whom have coached at much larger teams and dealt with much better and famous players, have said the exact same thing about him. Accepting that he has those issues, do you really think he deserves to be given a chance over pros who conduct themselves as such? What would that do to a locker room? And is the benefit of doing so really that great when they can play a front 4 that is easily the best in MLS without him?

    It often seems like you're unable to see anything past the player's ability on the field, and that you don't really take into account their work ethic, personality, etc and whatever else their coaches and teammates say about them. That typically makes you a really good youth scout and lets you spot guys like Jonathan Gomez really early, or be able to tell which players on the U15 team are prospects from 90 minutes, but when it's time to sour on a kid because he won't get his life together outside of sports, it seems to always take a while.
     
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  7. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #357 ussoccer97531, May 11, 2019
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
    This is now the second time this year that you've tried to criticize me instead of discuss the content of the discussion. I was nice enough in January to PM you about it after you criticized me instead of go right back at you in the forum, but evidently you didn't feel the need to do the same here when you had a problem with something I said.

    With all due respect, I don't need lectures from anyone here about myself. I don't normally take lectures about how to conduct myself from the person on the street. I don't come here for that either. I'd be willing to discuss the discussion started by Eleven Bravo, but I have no interest in a lecture from anyone here.

    If this is the case, what are these off the field issues? Why do these issues hurt his ability to play football? Spell it out for us. You don't know, I don't know, other fans don't know. There have been vague references that might be true, but nothing any of us know about or can say are definite off field issues. I think anyone would be willing to listen to what they are, but we don't know what is true and what isn't true. If no one knows, why are you sure its the case and why discuss something as fact that you don't know is fact?

    Two coaches have said he needs to improve professionalism. That is very different from saying there are off field issues. Coaches refer to young players needing to improve professionalism all the time. Martino said the same thing about Bello. He probably would've said the same thing about Goslin, if he wasn't banished to the second team.

    Besides, it comes off as rich that there's a off field issues/professionalism conversation when it comes to Atlanta using young players, considering that Barco made advances towards a teammates girlfriend. Professionalism clearly isn't getting in the way of Atlanta giving him the playing time he's earned, so there's no reason to move the goalposts. Atlanta still has not given him the opportunity to play more than occasional minutes, despite being very productive in the minutes he's played over three seasons. If they don't want to give him minutes, they should trade him to another team or transfer him to Europe. Ruining a player's career is a good way to not have future academy products sign with your team.
     
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  8. TarHeels17

    TarHeels17 Member+

    Jan 10, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No one knows the issues, that's the point, but they're obviously there. That's why they're talking about them. Professionalism, off-the-field issues, whatever you want to call it. He's probably not fighting his teammates or having those types of off-the-field issues, but failing to take care of himself as a normal professional and choosing to act irresponsibly in his free time is still a large issue that can't go unnoticed. It's illogical to say that those two problems don't exist when two coaches have said the same things for months.
    I'm criticizing your ability to rate soccer players, not you as a person, and it's hard to talk about our differences in opinion over Carleton without talking about our differences in general over how we rate players.

    Again, I don't know the issues, but as long as everyone at Atlanta agrees that they're on-going and he hasn't solved them, there's no reason to reward a guy with playing time. You talk about Barco, but when he did whatever with Vazquez's girlfriend, he was benched for months, and presumably came back into the lineup when the problems were rectified and the issues no longer seemed to cause a rift. If Carleton still has issues in some way or another, which he obviously does considering that De Boer quote is from yesterday, then he's not going to suddenly jump up in the depth chart.

    A lack of professionalism always hurts youth players more than it hurts players already cemented as first team players. Everyone knows that. There's just a stigmatism towards players who haven't proven anything acting like they have, and no one likes the kid acting like he's the sh*t when he hasn't ever scored a goal in MLS. Would you play a kid like that over proven pros? I wouldn't. It hurts the locker room and you're setting a bad example for future youth players.
     
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  9. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    With the European season drawing to a close, I don't think anyone in those leagues is making a big push for this thread. However, with the U20 WC coming up in a few weeks, the Gold Cup right after that, some of those players could emerge with their European club and take this thread.

    Mendez, Ledezma, LLanez, Weah, Sargent, Soto, Antonee Robinson, among others are still eligible. Robinson really picked up his game this Spring but his next step forward is a big one. Mendez seems to have settled and started to make noise at Freiberg. Soto seems to have figured out the U19 level and might be looking for a move away from Hannover or looking for assurance of major minutes in the 2.Bund. Weah will also be making a pivotal move it sounds like. Sargent has been on the cusp for months.

    There seem to be quite a few guys who are going to pop. Will they pop like McKennie or more like Sargent? And is there an Adams type of story brewing in MLS (Pomykal)
     
  10. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Freddy Adu syndrome is completely different. In the Carleton case we have an MLS organization providing tough love for a talented young player. They're not coddling him or annointing him the messiah. They're saying PUBLICLY that he needs to improve in order to see game time. They're not playing him until they feel like he's earned it. OK. I'm fine with that as long as they're really helping him to do so behind the scenes.

    I know the headline and the article can be spinned negatively. But my take away is this quote:

    “He's still very young. I think physically and as a professional, he has to improve. His quality, there is no doubt about it,” de Boer told reporters at a media availability when asked about Carleton.

    I'm fine with that particular statement......................
     
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  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What do you think he means by physically? I read it as he needs to go to the gym more and improve his eating habits to get stronger/faster, particularly as a short/slight and maybe slow player.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure.

    You know what? If you take the negative spin away, it sounds like something Oscar Pareja said about Paxton Pomykal last season. Pax barely played as an 18 year old too. The staff apparently thought he needed to work on some things..............and he did behind the scenes. So now as a 19 year old he's considered an essential starter and option for the USMNT.

    What I would say is that even though he didn't play a lot, the comments from Pareja and Clavijo were always positive. ATL comments have been spun negatively.

    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/fc-dallas/paxton-pomykal-earns-vote-of-confidence-after-2018-debut/

    So the Pareja spin is "he's still growing and I'm really excited to see how he develops." The ATL spin has been "he needs to grow up and learn how to be a professional." Positive/negative. Do we think young players are inspired by the Pareja attitude or the ATL/de Boer attitude? Do we think Carlton is inspired by seeing front page MLS articles with comments from his management saying "He needs to grow up as a man?"

    After Pax's debut game last season (he came on against Seattle with FCD up a man after Dempsey was red carded).

    “It made me smile,” FCD coach Óscar Pareja said. “It made me feel like the young guys are growing and that they need to be on the field more. Jacori [Hayes] as well has been playing very well. Paxton came up on the field with such a personality. Always very delighted to see how he has been maturing and he’s a product of our academy so hopefully he can have more minutes in the future and can keep growing as a player.”
     
  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I think one earns the positive spin by one's attitude and professionalism. Look at all the positive comments from day 1 about Adams and McKennie and compare that to those about Carleton (and I believe Haji Wright).

    When its multiple coaches saying the same thing and then Ramos doesn't stand up for him, I agree with the assessment that something's gone quite wrong.

    New scenery is needed.
     
  15. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Here is what de Boer said a week prior, but some would never want this quote seen because it goes against their narrative about this kid.

    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/atlanta-united-fc/andrew-carleton-atlanta-united-usmnt/

    Lazy reporting. Bad journalism. Call it whatever you like. I also watched video. It was nothing like whats been reported. They took what was said completely out of context. The sensationalistic nature from some reporters is a continuation of a soccer media in this country that is on the whole terrible at their job.

    This kid is the boogie man for some people. They've been doing this for years. Its quite sad, actually, that they are so filled with hate. They cheer on the suppression from Atlanta United and completely ignore that he's been very productive when he's gotten on the field for Atlanta and for our YNT's. They are betting big against this kid. I'd hope they will be willing to apologize for what they've done if (likely when) they end up being wrong.
     
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  16. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    yeah

    I heard the entire club was started with the sole goal to keep ac from being the next messi. there lone goal is to block him from becoming the best player on the planet its all part of the deep state that mls and sum are a part of.
     
  17. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You seem to be anti-Carleton. Don't have much confidence in him.

    If our soft as toilet paper media bothers him so much he'd never make it in a real footballing country.

    Why do you champion a soft, peewee, orange slice culture which coddles our players?
     
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  18. btlove

    btlove Member

    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    Austin Texas
    LOL I remember I used to think @ussoccer97531 was paranoid as hell about AC but the more time I spend on here I realize he is absolutely right.

    Funny thing is I have a suspicion that the reason AC gets shit on so hard here isn’t because people hate AC like ussoccer thinks, but instead it’s to get under ussoccers skin. Which is pretty pathetic, degrading a teenager to piss off a forum poster.
     
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  19. btlove

    btlove Member

    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    Austin Texas
    90% of your posts are strawmen get a grip
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    There's just a predictable pattern.

    1) Kid looks like a good prospect based on USYNT performance, and the media latches on to it. Certain posters agree that he looks like a great prospect, and become a defender.

    2) There's than a backlash as certain folks get tired of the hype, and tired of other posters talking about the prospects all the time. So then they start tearing down the prospect.

    Carleton is only 18. I'm fine with folks having an opinion on the skill set they've seen and analyzing the comments that ATL has put out there. Once all that stuff is public, people are going to talk about it.

    I don't like it when folks seem to root for a youngster to fail. And with Andrew Carleton, I'm seeing that........................
     
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  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Agreed. I think the main reason is animosity between posters.
     
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  22. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The media coverage Carleton gets is pretty non existent compared to what footballers deal with in Europe and South America, or what similar aged players deal with here in NCAA football and basketball.

    The idea everyone's out to get him and hates him and are trying to derail his career, doesn't stack up at all against what other athletes deal with.
     
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  23. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    so true...no facts behind carleton having any issues at atlanta its all strawmen arguments

    just because he was suspended doesn't mean there was an issue and just because the coach says their are issues doesn't mean there are real issues it could just be a smokescreen by the deep state. this is all clintons fault.
     
  24. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Constructive criticism is fine unless you make it personal.
    I thought he was a good little player but I saw his biggest problem, to me, was his lack of size or let's just say he didn't play bigger than his size. He tries shit and sometimes it works. I always thought the top guy from that class was Sargent but looks like Adams may be the guy.
     
  25. btlove

    btlove Member

    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    Austin Texas
    Thanks for proving my point lol
     

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