2019-2020 UEFA Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    From this list it is clear that more importance has been placed on this match in the past decade from the refereeing perspective. 7 of the last 9 referees have done another UEFA Final at some point, and the other two (Collum, Marciniak) still can (though probably less likely for Collum now).

    This game is way more important than the MLS All-Star game. As you said, it is an official trophy that counts, and for a European referee it is a major honor in their career. Remember that at most three new referees can get a European final each year (plus the EURO Final every four years, but that virtually always goes to a referee who has done another final).
     
  2. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Still don't know how these two in particular didn't officiate a CL final...
     
  3. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    This assignment could also signify the growing influence Dagmar Damkova has in UEFA's ref committee.

    The committee was recently reduced, with only the Rosetti, Dallas, Batta, Sajn and the aforementioned Damkova being retained.
     
  4. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. greek ref

    greek ref Member

    Feb 27, 2013
    Club:
    Panathinaikos Athens
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    As expected, Rosetti is the observer of the Super Cup Final.
     
  6. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Excellently executed and correct offside decision against Pulisic to annul what would have been the second goal for Chelsea.

    I'm torn over the 5th minute handball penalty shout. I think to the extent IFAB is trying to make handball as objective as possible, this is supposed to be a penalty and a yellow card because the arm is extended and the body is unnaturally bigger and a shot has been blocked.

    https://streamable.com/tzs5w

    That said, I can see why she doesn't award it in real-time given her position/angle and, once she hasn't, is it clearly wrong to the extent that Turpin should intervene as VAR? Maybe not. But then again, UEFA VARs got involved on more dubious penalties last season.
     
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  8. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    The Chelsea PK in the 101st was soft, but no clear error. It was, however, pure stupidity on the the part of the Liverpool keeper.
     
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  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was awfully close to a clear error given what that standard has meant elsewhere. Contact was hard to discern and, if it happened, it was because the attacker dragged his leg. I was somewhat surprised to not see an OFR there.

    Whether or not it was correct for the VAR to not intervene, I do not think it was the correct initial decision.
     
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  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Uh, I think I've changed my mind. This seems like a clearly wrong decision to me:

    1161748497881862144 is not a valid tweet id


    https://streamable.com/tmjes

    You combine those clips and I don't see a plausible scenario where there is any contact, nevermind negligible contact or contact initiated by the attacker.
     
  11. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    Ugh this going Frame by Frame new standard is going to get really tiresome.

    Is this the referees fault or did the VAR not send it down?
     
  12. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    The last PK save has never been a retake before, but with the new Laws and VAR how do you not order a retake there?

    The other issue, especially if it is the match deciding PK save, how the hell do you actually go about ordering a retake? You stop the teams in the middle of their celebrations and stop the trophy presentation from being set up?
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, uh, I guess we're done calling this infraction now. It was a nice summer fad.
     

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  14. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Adrian was clearly off his line but I thought UEFA said they would not judge this with VAR.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can only speak personally, but it seemed to me like a poor call on live viewing. And judging by reactions on-field, it didn't seem like there was an expectation that a penalty was going to be awarded.

    Both?

    I mean if it's a bad decision, it's her fault. If it also was clearly wrong and the VAR didn't send it down, that's just as bad if not worse considering that's his sole job and he can take his time.

    Barring some exculpatory angle that you can't see in either of those videos and that doesn't seem like it can possibly exist, the decision is bad all-around.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    EPL said that.

    Did UEFA?

    During the WWC I suggested UEFA might look the other way on this regarding VAR and that would be the "out," but I never saw that confirmed anywhere.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Best argument I've seen for sustaining the penalty call without an OFR, as it suggests there might have been hand to leg contact on the other side:


    It's the best argument, but I'm still far from convinced.
     
  18. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    A French male VAR is just not going to overrule a French female referee on a call like this in a match like this especially given the significance of the appointment.

    PH
     
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  19. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    I don't think we want to problematize this do we?

    If it's so close that we're struggling for camera angles to disprove that it's a penalty, I think it's a penalty. Human beings eyes aren't that good, and this looks in real time like a penalty. To say that a referee shouldn't have called this is either saying that should have better eyes than is humanly possible, or they should be scared to ever call a penalty.
     
  20. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    On the other hand, thought both ARs were very good.
     
  21. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    I thought without the pk (a huge caveat, to be sure) she was quite good. I can’t help but wonder if the players weren’t being a little less obnoxious overall. But, she was fit, well positioned, and perfectly credible. The AR’s were quite good too.

    As for the pk, I’m surely not advocating for a different threshold in the pa, but regardless of whether there was slight contact or not, the attacker kicked the ball slap out of bounds. Not a bad touch that got away from him. Kicked it straight out of bounds. Even if the gk got more of the player, I’m having a hard time giving a pk for that.
     
  22. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    I don’t think penalty is the preferred call.

    However, I don’t think it’s a clear and obvious error.

    Overall, I thought her positioning and movement were good, though she got stuck too close to play once or twice. Super impressed by ARs, though at times players were visibly frustrated with what I considered exceptionally late offside flags, even considering new protocol.

    Her foul discretion needs work in my opinion. Inconsistent at points and sometimes delayed in her decisions.

    Given the totality of the assignment I still think she had an acceptable performance despite the undue pressure.
     
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  23. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Could you imagine the chaos calling this as one team is already wheeling away celebrating? I would have loved to seen it called if only to see the reaction!

    I understand and sympathize with this call being made on the field, but let’s be honest. It’s not a judgment call, it’s a geographic decision so to be philosophically consistent it should be adjudicated with the precision offside decisions are ...
     
  24. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Apparently UEFA is looking the other way as well.

     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What on earth does that even mean?

    The law is that you have to have one foot touching the line or the parallel above it. And VARs use video. So, you know, the image posted above is pretty blatant and clear. It's a violation. If the ball was out of play over the goal line that far before a goal was scored, would we allow the goal because it was "close enough" to staying in play?

    "We aren't subjecting that provision of the Laws to VAR" is defensible. IFAB wouldn't like it, but whatever--everyone else in the game would.

    "We're only going to have VAR call it sometimes and completely at his discretion" is idiotic. It makes it worse than things ever were on encroachment. Because after 3 or 5 or 10 of these that don't get called and then the first one gets called and a referee is stuck with the decision and the yellow card... oh boy.
     
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