2019-2020 UEFA Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 3, 2019.

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  1. colman1860

    colman1860 Member

    Nov 13, 2012
    London, England
    The point I haven't seen raised here in the Chelsea - Ajax discussion is the advantage. Rocchi knows he's sending Blind off - why play an advantage as the ball is rolling out to the wing? Why risk the massive headache that follows, or indeed the headache that would follow if Ajax are able to clear and he ends up having to stop play the next time Blind touches the ball? Chelsea would have no complaints about a quick whistle, send off, and FK in a promising position, and Rocchi wouldn't be the subject of 30 posts in this thread.
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This is kind of what Bas Nijhuis, one of the UEFA certified Dutch CRs said: https://www.ajaxshowtime.com/articl...26876/nijhuis-absoluut-geen-opzettelijk-hands (you will need to use a translator to get the English version). He confirms that if a PK is called for hands, a YC is required.

    I wonder what the call would have been had Blind stayed on the ground after the Pulicic intervention. What this have been a foul and play stopped. As has been pointed out by other this whole sequence was surreal.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I also thought this. Part of me thinks, though, that close to goal Rocchi might be more focused on the attacking opportunity than immediately processing that Blind is already on a yellow. Doing that brainwork and then asking yourself the advantage question takes a split second... and, at that point, Chelsea is already in a shooting position.
     
  4. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Selected EL appointments

    Vitoria - Arsenal: OZKAHYA (TUR)
    Krasnodar - Trabzonspor: BASTIEN (FRA)
    Lazio - Celtic: STIELER (GER)
    Feyenoord - Young Boys: GIL (POL)
    Rangers - Porto: MASSA (ITA)
    Espanyol - Ludogorets: LETEXIER (FRA)
    Wolfsburg - Gent: IRRATI (ITA)
    Moenchengladbach - Roma: GIL MANZANO (ESP)
    Braga - Besiktas: MAZEIKA (LTU)
    Wolves - Slovan Bratislava: NIJHUIS (NED)
    Man Utd - Partizan: GESTRANIUS (FIN)

    Irrati to make his debut on the field.
     
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  5. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    We've all been so enamored and obsessed with VAR now on this forum for a while now that we have lost track of recognizing good refereeing.

    We sometimes don't appreciate why these guys are so good and why they are at that level.

    The way Skomina handled that mass confrontation is world class. Calm, composed and collected and just stood there waiting for the nonsense to settle down.

    That mass confrontation clip shows why he is one of the best referees in Europe and the world.

    Two cautions to each team that gives balanced and fair justice.

    Great clip to use in clinics.
     
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  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes.

    I would also say that his red card for SFP was great. He recognized what just happened a few minutes earlier, saw the rash challenge, realized the match situation and likely took into account the position of the tackle on the field (we always used to be taught about challenges near the benches) and went red.

    On replay, I am sure some can make the argument that it's only yellow. I've already seen that argument elsewhere. But referees aren't supposed to be robots. That was a red card challenge in that situation and good on Skomina for doing what was necessary (and for the VAR for not intervening).
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watching this again in detail, the frighteningly amazing thing is that he seems to actually get the four guys who deserve it, too.

    The keeper and #9 on Atletico clearly deserve it. So does #4 from Bayer. It's hard to tell if it's #11 or #38 from Bayer that is the one who pulled down #9 of Atletico in the middle of the melee, but if it was #38 then Skomina and his AR are 100% accurate on a 20-person mass-con that had four yellow cards (and even if it wasn't #38, he still took a very aggressive posture to an opponent right prior to that). That is incredibly impressive.

    Worth noting Skomina did have the luxury of only having/knowing one person in the match was on a caution--and he didn't do anything close to misconduct. If this occurs with 4-5 people on yellows already, it adds a layer to the challenge.
     
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  8. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    So in the same week, we have two players from the same team sent off in the same play, and four players yellow carded in the same mass confrontation. Are both of these unprecedented in the UCL?
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This happened just yet, while I am watching


    Note: this is a Swiss source.

    It is not two yellow cards within one play, but a 2nd reckless challenge mere seconds after the Young Boys player got his yellow card. Certainly a clear yellow card under normal circumstances.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I find this clip hilarious. The Lille captain seems to know the Law on handling just well enough to not know that his arm above his head on a slide tackle gets punished even if it deflects off his body first. And then he also seems to think that the fourth official is the VAR.

    https://streamable.com/l0pev
     
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  11. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    United States
    Jan 14, 2019
    Ha. CR is obviously not impressed with his theatrics...

    l0pev_1_stare.gif
     
  12. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Selected European Qualifiers Appointments

    Czech Republic - Kosovo: ROCCHI (ITA)
    England - Montenegro: MATEU LAHOZ (ESP)
    Portugal - Lithuania: BUQUET (FRA)
    Serbia - Luxembourg: GOZUBUYUK (NED)
    Turkey - Iceland: TAYLOR (ENG)
    France - Moldova: MAZEIKA (LTU)

    Strange match to assign Rocchi to. Wouldn't be a shock if refereeing makes the headlines at Wembley.
     
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  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These were almost certainly made before the UCL matches.
     
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  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe I misread this. Because of the controversy at Chelsea? Or because the match isn’t high profile?

    If the former, see my post above. If the latter, strongly disagree. It’s a huge match for qualification purposes. One of the biggest this matchday.
     
  15. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That's it. Kosovo need a win and they still have to play England in the final match day. England should win over Montenegro despite the blow up that led to Sterling's dismissal for this week's games. they would clinch first place and might field a weaker starting team in the final match.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some more interesting assignments for Friday's matches...

    Norway : Faroe Islands - JOVIC (CRO)
    Armenia : Greece - RACZKOWSKI (POL)
    Finland : Liechtenstein - BASTIEN (FRA)
    Denmark : Gibraltar - VAD (HUN)
    Switzerland : Georgia - MAKKELIE (NED)
    Romania : Sweden - ORSATO (ITA)
    Spain : Malta - KASSAI (HUN)
    Bosnia-Herzegovina : Italy - SCHARER (SUI)

    Hard to find too much rhyme or reason here. On the one hand, there are some pretty big names on what theoretically should be lopsided matches--it's not every day you see an Elite referee on a Liechtenstein away match, for example. It looks like UEFA wants to be extra sure on matches where teams are still battling for qualification (and, with the case of Finland, a historic qualification). So that would account for Bastien, Makkelie and even Vad.

    Spain-Malta is somewhat baffling. A UCL Final referee on a completely meaningless match. Then again, Kassai has been gone from national team matches for awhile, so maybe a way to lightly ease him back in?

    Orsato with the objective big one for Friday.
     
  17. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    I don't doubt that this match is very important for qualification purposes. However, it could have gone to several other Elite referees. For Rocchi, who is retiring soon, I would have expected him to receive "nice gifts" on his way out. This is not one of those gifts.
     
  18. [​IMG]
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess we just have a different perspective. You view "nice gifts" as a big stadium or a pleasant geographical locale? I think being trusted for the big match right up until retirement is a better gift.

    Short of Ireland-Denmark on the last matchday (and Romania-Sweden, which Orsato got) this probably is the most consequential qualifier left that has direct qualification ramifications for both teams. I think a referee like Rocchi would relish that challenge in what will probably be his penultimate competitive international match. Personally, I'd take that over, say, the Spain-Malta game.

    It will be interesting to see what kind of send off he gets in the UCL. Normally I'd expect it to be relaxed, but in a big stadium. There aren't a lot of good options, though. He can't be in a group with an Italian team. He won't go to Chelsea or Ajax. So Groups A, B and G are the only options. Real v PSG would be a nice final match, though that's on MD 5. If it's MD 6, I bet he ends with Bayern v Spurs because everything in Group G is going to be complicated.
     
  20. Mikael_Referee

    Mikael_Referee Member+

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    In my opinion huge game for Sandro Schärer - albeit almost certainly a dead rubber. Imagine, though it will likely stay in imagination, what kind of game he'll face if Finland get serious stage freight hours earlier.

    Having been observed by two big names in his last EL matches (Vassáras, Fandel) this should be the final test before a CL début.
     
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  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Saturday...

    Cyprus : Scotland - LECHNER (AUT)
    Croatia : Slovakia - TURPIN (FRA)
    Azerbaijan : Wales - AYTEKIN (GER)
    Slovenia : Latvia - PETRESCU (ROU)
    Russia : Belgium - SOARES DIAS (POR)
    San Marino : Kazakhstan - PALABIYIK (TUR)
    Germany : Belarus - GRINFELD (ISR)
    Northern Ireland : Netherlands - MARCINIAK (POL)
    Austria : North Macedonia - OLIVER (ENG)
    Israel : Poland - GESTRANIUS (FIN)

    Two things stand out to me.

    First, Palabiyik did a UCL match a few weeks ago. UCL referees don't go to San Marino for nothing matches. This lends credence to the rumor that Palabiyik was a replacement for Cakir, who was punished for his performance in Chelsea and in his last qualifier OR had a mystery injury no one knew about. Will be interesting to see where Cakir lands for the final matchday.

    The second thing is Oliver's match, but it's nothing you see here. Instead, it's that Rizzoli is his observer. I've got to think that's deliberate by Rosetti. This match seems like a crucial test (one of the last two or three) for Oliver's EURO chances.
     
  22. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This could be a chippy match as NI have to win in order to have any chance of advancing.
     
  23. I hope the ref keeps a close eye on charges towards ankles and shins.
     
  24. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Why was Cakir punished?
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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