2019-20 Offseason Rumors & Player Movement Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Ismitje, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Well let's be clear here. The proposal we're discussing is one that would further restrain clubs beyond the existing status quo and move the payroll flexibility backwards.

    If you like MLS and feel the existing model is fiscally responsible, it raises the question of why this change is necessary or beneficial.

    It's not one set of values being good and right and another set of values being bad and wrong, it's trying to find the optimal position on the spectrum between the two.

    I personally would regard the idea that the current MLS roster rules go too far in giving ambitious clubs license for willy-nilly spending as dubious and lacking in evidence. As you say, this is still a league with a high degree of parity.
     
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  2. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Completely agree.

    Personally, I would rather they went with a simple hard cap, possibly retaining DP slots, then just let teams do what they want within those parameters. To encourage youth development, I'd consider not counting academy products against the cap.

    I do understand why they went with the TAM mechanism though: the aim was to ensure the money was spent on improving the league, not just paying more for the same... though of course, I'm sure the MLSPA might argue MLS should be paying more for what they already have but that's a whole other discussion.
     
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  3. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Seems to me that the structure set up in the 2015 CBA was intended to improve the quality of play in the league, and measured against that intention I would call it a huge success.

    Opaque roster construction machinations are a downside, as playing armchair GM is an attractive part of being a fan of the NBA or MLB, for instance, and it can be pretty maddening trying to follow an MLS club in the same way, but for me the quality of the product is a higher priority.

    I would rather the players win on free agency than GAM/TAM.
     
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  4. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Member+

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    Though the league is structured as single entity, it really amounts to a partnership of the owners. The new owners seem to be more ambitious than some of the older ones. If a Checketts or Hauptman can't keep up or don't want to, they can sell their teams for a healthy profit to someone who does. Maybe Kroenke cashs out at some point.

    As far as parity and spending distribution goes, I'd like to see the DP rules eliminated so the money could be spent across the roster. If it were up to me, there would simply be a cap with a luxury tax for the big spenders with the tax money being split among the cap compliant teams.
     
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  5. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    That would rein in ambitious teams even more than the new DP rule floated. Look at MLB, luxury taxes really alter behavior.

    The thing the existing structure does, kind of ingeniously, is coerce ambitious teams into using their resources making splashy moves for marketable stars that help the league as a whole, but are a relatively inefficient means of helping those teams top-heavy rosters become too much better than everyone else.

    You get a bit of the best of both worlds with flashy spending on one hand and on-field parity on the other.

    That comes at a cost in something like the CCL where we aren't putting out very strong teams on a per-dollar basis, but there are downsides to any strategy.
     
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  6. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  7. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Even with that 3rd DP rule change teams that like to spend will spend on the best available U23 players and those that don't want to spend will continue doing the same. How much did Atlanta spend on Barco? LAFC in Brian Rodriguez? Miami is willing to put down 10 million on Agustin Almendra of Boca Jrs. and had already paid a transfer fee for Pellegrini of around 10 million. LA Galaxy, TFC and any other big spenders will do the same and go out and spend big money on transfer fees on young players. Then you will have those teams that will continue to say that they aren't a big market team and that they can't spend like the others. The problem I see is that not all teams have that goal to buy and sell later on. And not everyone will have a success story doing it. This is only putting more restrictions on top of the restrictions that already exist.
     
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  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shrug. Really..................I think this is much about nothing.
    I suspect that MOST clubs already use one of their DP slots on a young, high-ceiling U23 player. The league is going in this direction without the rule. Not many over-the-hill Euros with big names coming into the league in the last couple of off-seasons. Other than say, Zlatan, who could obviously still contribute.

    Ultimately I think the rule isn't necessary.

    I'd like to remind folks that FCD and NYRB recently won Supporter's Shields' with the lowest two payrolls in the league. That wasn't ancient history. Plenty of big spending teams in the league when they did that.

    And the last couple of years there's been a direct correlation in terms of minutes to homegrown players and making the playoffs. RSL gave the most minutes to homegrown players last season, and they finished 3rd in the West. Plenty of big-spending teams in their rear-view mirror. Dallas finished 2nd in terms of homegrown minutes, and they made the playoffs as well (arguably giving Seattle their toughest test in the playoffs)

    To me if they make the rule change or don't make the rule change, its nothing to really get myself hot and bothered about. I don't think much changes.
     
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  9. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    The league as a whole is basically guaranteed to fail, on net.

    The only way to durably run a profit through player exchange is to generate your talent for "free" through the academy. And even then it's a sucker's game.

    Almiron has caused all the Finance Bro owners to lose their minds with the concept of outsmarting the market.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    FCD has been pretty quiet this off-season (other than locking down all of Pomykal, Ferreira, Gonzalez, Hollingshead, and Hedges to new deals).

    There are rumors that Ondrasek may be on his way out due to Euro interest after his good play with the Czech national team. Rumors heating up that he'll be replaced by Franco Jara of Pachuca.
     
  11. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Huh. Didn't actually think this would happen.



    Tom Bogert reporting it is a 1.7 million dollar transfer fee.

     
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  12. AeroNaught

    AeroNaught Member+

    Atlanta United
    Feb 14, 2007
    Birmingham, AL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that a good huh or a bad huh?
     
  13. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Good. Monteiro is probably the midfielder in the league with the highest work rate. Seriously, watch a Union game and you'll see he covers pretty much all the space between the 18 yard boxes and both sides of the field. I can't think of another player in the league that will do the job he does at the level he does it at. He isn't the best at any one thing (passing, pace, tackling, etc) but he is essential in the system we play. Tanner (technical director) also said last month or so that a deal to sign him permanently was dead and they were on to secondary targets. Didn't actually expect them to get this one done.
     
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  14. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    A "friend" (*cough* Matt Jordan *cough*) wants me to comment that the rule is needed for those clubs who refuse to develop Academy players AND refuse to spend big on DP players. Cause....itll totally save their bacon and allow them to compete.
     
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  15. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    Apparently the FC Cincinnati discord willed this into reality. No lettuce involved.

     
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  16. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
  17. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    I think somebody is reading my mind... LOL
     
  18. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Couple issues with that. MLS' cut is specifically to pay down the costs incurred by the league that aren't directly attributed to any one team. The league as a whole takes in sponsorship, licensing, tv rights, and other income to pay the majority of the player's salaries and all of the things like insurance (plus the additional allocation monies). After all of that is taken into account there is a cash call at the end of the year that each group pays equally. That 25% cut is to offset part of the losses the league as a whole is making since they are paying a majority of the salary costs. Easiest way to look at it is the league holds 25% of the player's rights, which is something that is very common around the world.

    The converting it to GAM and limiting that is a bit more tricky and I can see some wiggle room for improving that. Nowhere near what he is proposing though. You should be able to get a bit of an advantage if you sell a player on for a profit, but 5 million in GAM? Let's look at Atlanta as an example. They sell Almiron and get 5 million in GAM for this last year. With their open DP spot the grab Pity, but he doesn't even touch that GAM because he is a straight DP swap with Almiron. Now Atlanta goes out grabs a couple TAM level signings with their money (let's say 3 million of their original 5). One of those happens to sell for 5 million. They don't have to cover the acquisition costs since that only is done with DPs. So you can parlay one good DP buy into a competitive advantage that could last for years unless a team gets lucky.

    I know that teams around the world do this. Certain teams get lucky with one sale and can use that to fuel a promotion run or a mid-table run. Teams get lucky in the FA Cup and draw a big Premier League club and the money they get from that keeps them solvent for years or lets them outspend their lower league competitors. However, those teams also have to deal with the negatives of bad acquisitions as well. MLS clubs are insulated from that. If a team buys a player as a DP and makes a loss on the sale the league doesn't punish them for it by taking GAM. Owners can buyout a contract a year and not get punished for it. And GAM/TAM signings that don't work out don't really matter because in a year or two you waive the player and move on. If we want to introduce a system that teams can get some huge competitive advantage for a sale then it needs to be balanced out by punishing a team if it does badly in the system. I honestly don't think that is a good idea since I think MLS rules allow teams to take risks and not get punished too harshly for them long term.

    So, yeah, teams probably should get a bit more GAM if they sell a player. Particularly homegrown players. I honestly think they should get less (or none) if it involves a DP. Your competitive advantage for making a profit on a DP sale is you can afford a better DP (theoretically). But I can live with them giving out GAM for it (I know my ideas on DP slots and how they should be used in MLS are different than a majority of people on here), but you shouldn't be able to take one DP sale and use that on the rest of the roster. Also, this is the last I'm posting in here on DP's/GAM/TAM or any other roster rule. We could talk about general roster rules elsewhere while talking specific roster moves here.
     
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  19. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A ton of rumors floating around today. Almendra and Martinez looking more and more likely for Inter Miami. The Chicharito rumors to the Galaxy won’t die and now rumors of them lining up Giroud as a back up option are surfacing. As Bilbo noted Cinci is being tied to a move for Pereiro. The Flores signing by DC United looks done. Etc, etc, etc.

    I think it is pretty safe to say at this point that this will be the biggest offseason spending spree in MLS history by a pretty wide margin.
     
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  20. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Translation:
    Rumor has it that the Rapids already have him signed to a pre-contract for the summer window, so this would be a payment to get him here now instead of waiting until July. Colon will at least make some money from a player their fans are saying they should have been able to get $5M for (the Colon fans are not happy they essentially let him get away on a free).
     
  21. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. morrissey

    morrissey Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    West Los Angeles, Calif
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Official:


    1215816446493806592 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  23. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not official yet but there are enough sources reporting it that I expect an announcement tomorrow or at least this week. The Rapids are signing Nicolas Benezet from FA Guingamp for a $500K transfer fee with TAM. They're also sending $50K of GAM to TFC for his rights (TFC has him in on loan last season) plus another $50K GAM based on incentives.

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020...ids-sign-ex-toronto-fc-winger-nicolas-benezet

    This also, likely, kills the rumored signing of Jimmy Cabot from Lorient.
     
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  24. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which, of course, means Benezet will be a Loon by the Fourth of July. :)
     
  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More likely we give you Nicholson back
     

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